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New to Moisture - XL KHS Flite 720

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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

New to Moisture - XL KHS Flite 720

Old 11-18-21, 08:33 AM
  #26  
mstateglfr 
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Originally Posted by Moisture View Post
Maelochs

I'm sure you are well rehearsed with the monstrosities I bragged and flaunted (or rather, forced my way into bikeforums with..) such as the GT and Norco Monterey. There's an interesting story behind this. After getting from 245 back to 220lb on a size medium Northrock costco mountain bike special, I started a long journey back down to 180 something lbs before maintaining steady at around 190lb.

Even once I maintained a reasonable weight, my bike fit continued to change. There is no set spacer height or degree of stem angle.. just a rough starting point regarding handlebar stack/reach and a general trajectory i follow as my body adapted to this reasonably challenging, reasonably aggressive riding position.
You forgot to post the interesting story.
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Old 11-18-21, 08:39 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
You forgot to post the interesting story.
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Old 11-18-21, 09:34 AM
  #28  
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See. I did that in reverse. I went from a collection of cobbled-together frankenbikes and 175 lbs to a bunch of decent-to-nice bike and 250.

No reason you couldn't have that KHS for decades ... I am about to head out on my '84 Raleigh----50-34x12-28 Tiagra 10-speed and 23-mm tires until they wear out, when I will probably go up to 28s.
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Old 11-18-21, 10:23 AM
  #29  
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here she is now. Gotta work towards getting those spacers out from underneath the stem.
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Old 11-18-21, 10:34 AM
  #30  
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You've gotta work on getting a non-hazardous tire on the rear wheel.
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Old 11-18-21, 10:36 AM
  #31  
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What's the problem with the spacers under the stem? If they give the right fit and still allow the stem to fit on the fork correctly, they are serving their purpose. If you are going to work on something, I'd start with that rear tire...
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Old 11-18-21, 11:33 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Moisture View Post
here she is now. Gotta work towards getting those spacers out from underneath the stem.
Why do you need to work on getting the spacers out from under the stem?

Even after all these posts and so much detailed response from forum members, you show almost no understanding of fit or geometry.
I wont be surprised to see in a few months that you have slapped your 190mm crank arms onto the bike, have the saddle tilted down at a 30deg angle because of some new theory you thought of, and tilt the bars down like you said you want so you look like a taller version of timtak.
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Old 11-18-21, 11:41 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by big john View Post
I don't think you can take any Shimano shifters apart.
Sure, you can. You can take anything apart, if you try hard enough. It's the putting it back together part that's the challenge.
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Old 11-18-21, 12:48 PM
  #34  
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mstateglfr i sure do feel like I have a good understanding of fit at least for myself. As I adapt to the bike, I will move one spacer above the stem to get into a more aero position.

I am buying a new 700x25 tire for the Rear today. I felt the compound of the trainer in comparison to the front and decided not to do any more stunts on the thing until I change the tire.

as for the shifting, I pulled back the hoods and sprayed some bike lube into the mechanism, which fixed the issue after working the oil into there.

This is the first time I've ridden a bike with 1t cog differences in the rear cassette. Scary capable.

The frame is this bike just isn't designed for anything longer than 175mm. They don't feel to short according to my hip angle, but I do notice power loss when outputting higher watts particularly up hills. A bottom bracket of about 272mm and 180mm crank arms would sound ideal for me. I can totally ride 185 or even 190mm arms with sufficient bottom bracket clearance; spending more time with them concludes that something between 177.5-182.5mm would be most ideal for me.

Last edited by Moisture; 11-18-21 at 12:51 PM.
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Old 11-18-21, 02:32 PM
  #35  
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That's looking good. Maybe it's the photo angle but your bars still don't seem quite right. The flats should be flat (IKR?) and the hoods should make a smooth transition from the flats. Your hands should be able to move uninterrupted from the flats onto the rubber of the hoods. The rise comes later with the shifter body.
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Old 11-18-21, 03:24 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
That's looking good. Maybe it's the photo angle but your bars still don't seem quite right. The flats should be flat (IKR?) and the hoods should make a smooth transition from the flats. Your hands should be able to move uninterrupted from the flats onto the rubber of the hoods. The rise comes later with the shifter body.
Gotcha! You're right, I have to angle the bars back up. Are you saying that the hoods are incorrectly positioned on the bars as well? I might have to readjust them a little after tilting the bars back up.
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Old 11-18-21, 03:46 PM
  #37  
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Maybe. Angle the bars back up first. Looks as if you may have to move the shifters down some. You should have level all the flat section of the bars plus the rubber of the hoods before the big bump of the shifter.
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Old 11-18-21, 04:15 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
Maybe. Angle the bars back up first. Looks as if you may have to move the shifters down some. You should have level all the flat section of the bars plus the rubber of the hoods before the big bump of the shifter.
I tried Angling it so that the flats are sloping down just slightly which seems comfortable for me. I will have to adjust the drops a bit
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Old 11-18-21, 06:32 PM
  #39  
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I don't know about you, your proportions, all of that .... but it looks to me like you are putting way too little of your hands on way too little of the bar. Fine if you are always pushing hard, but it might wear on your wrists if you go for mileage.

Of course it might not ... but some people ride very uncomfortable bikes because they think bikes are supposed to be uncomfortable.

I like what some call "the flats"---the portion of the bar pointing forward, outboard and ninety degrees off of the Tops---to be parallel to the ground, with the hoods positioned so the back end of the hood is also parallel to the ground. This way I can put my hands in a couple places on the bars with a lot of area supported, and with a direct bone line--I am actually pushing on the bars with the bones of my forearm and through my hands, with my wrists unflexed, so my wrists bear zero actual weight. If my wrists are bent to hold on,. I am reacting all my upper body weight and all the impact on the front fork through my wrists .... and my wrists are not strong enough to take all that repeated impact, the constant vibration and my body weight (yeah,. I know you are a lightweight ) for too many miles.

That way I can use several distinct hand positions on the flats behind the hoods, on the flat of the hood, on the bottom of the hood/flat while gripping the upper (shift body) portion of the brifter, and a couple positions fully on the brifter. (I don't ride in the drops much .... I don't want to compromise the positive effect of that giant aero-belly, you know ( )

I also play with the inward lean of the brifters .... well i also use both 42- and 44-cm bars so .... whatever .....

I always think I have it right until I try something better .....
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Old 11-20-21, 09:04 PM
  #40  
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Maelochs , by too little of the bar, do you mean, simply always staying in one hand position?

I often transition between hoods and drops, hopds when pushing at a more neutral effort, and slip into the drops when tackling some tricky stuff where I'm more likely to require the brakes.

I bought two 700x28 tires at my local bike shop and changed just the rear tire so far.

As for drop bar angle, I read online that the tops being parallel with the ground usually isn't the correct position? That you want the bars to angle downwards slightly? I currently have the angled a bit higher up than you see in the latest photo, not sure if I'd want to go any higher.

I am now looking for a 46cm drop bar and a compact crankset for this bike.
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Old 11-21-21, 07:12 AM
  #41  
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Everyone is different. If it seems to work for you, it seems to work for you.

Of course, a small change and it might all work much better. (Please pardon the bad photoshop---I am go0ing to be late for work because I messed with this too long already.)

I didn't get it quite right but if you look how you have it set up, the flats slope down at about 20 degrees .... which means if you rest your hands there, they are always sliding forward toward the hoods. This means you have to use extra strength the stay on that part of the bars, which defeats the point of a good set-up, which should keep your in a few optimized positions effortlessly. (IMO)

The modified pic is a little off---the bars are supposed to he horizontal, but I rotated them two degrees too far (you just can't hire good help anymore---or, you get what you pay for.) What I am trying to show is that if the flats are actually flat, you can rest anywhere on the bar from the outside of the curves all the way to full-on grabbing the hoods, and always have a level platform for support underneath, so you don't have to actually Grip with your hands to stay in place---you can wrest on the bar and just wrap your fingers around the bar or brifter in a relaxed fashion until you need to make control input motions.

Most people seem to favor this set-up. A lot of older (to you, ancient) competitive riders used that steep downslope to the brake hoods because they rode either the hoods or the drops, and not so much on the bar .... different way of approaching things---but look at the modern peloton and see how they are set up. Doesn't mean it will work for you, but pretty much all of them have horizontal flats (and the brifters angled in a bit toward the centerline, which is a separate issue.)

As for reaching the drops, that is more about the shape of your bars versus the shape of your body. You want (again, IMO) the drops to be easily and comfortable reachable---back in the day, people used Huge bars with eight inches between tops and drops. Nowadays, most bars are about 70-150 reach and maybe 125-150 drop---more of a natural downward and forward swing of the body to fall onto the drops. If your bars are shaped to fit your body, you should be able to ride in the drops without much stress or reaching, and without any more pressure on your hands than when riding on the hoods .... but that is both bar shape and bar position. Needs tweaking as a rule to get it perfectly suited to you.

When I ride the drops it is my swollen belly, not the pressure or distance to the drops that makes me sit up sooner---I like to breathe, and stuff which stops me from breathing, I don't do for too long. Still, on every bike I have my set-up adjusted so I can ride the tops, the flats, the hoods, or the drops without hurting my hands or wrists or locking my elbows or doing any other damaging thing. I like to rest on the bars and hold them, not grip them.


(Sorry ... flats are supposed to be flat but I left them tilted down a bit .... oh well.)
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Old 11-21-21, 08:34 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Everyone is different. If it seems to work for you, it seems to work for you.

Of course, a small change and it might all work much better. (Please pardon the bad photoshop---I am go0ing to be late for work because I messed with this too long already.)

I didn't get it quite right but if you look how you have it set up, the flats slope down at about 20 degrees .... which means if you rest your hands there, they are always sliding forward toward the hoods. This means you have to use extra strength the stay on that part of the bars, which defeats the point of a good set-up, which should keep your in a few optimized positions effortlessly. (IMO)

The modified pic is a little off---the bars are supposed to he horizontal, but I rotated them two degrees too far (you just can't hire good help anymore---or, you get what you pay for.) What I am trying to show is that if the flats are actually flat, you can rest anywhere on the bar from the outside of the curves all the way to full-on grabbing the hoods, and always have a level platform for support underneath, so you don't have to actually Grip with your hands to stay in place---you can wrest on the bar and just wrap your fingers around the bar or brifter in a relaxed fashion until you need to make control input motions.

Most people seem to favor this set-up. A lot of older (to you, ancient) competitive riders used that steep downslope to the brake hoods because they rode either the hoods or the drops, and not so much on the bar .... different way of approaching things---but look at the modern peloton and see how they are set up. Doesn't mean it will work for you, but pretty much all of them have horizontal flats (and the brifters angled in a bit toward the centerline, which is a separate issue.)

As for reaching the drops, that is more about the shape of your bars versus the shape of your body. You want (again, IMO) the drops to be easily and comfortable reachable---back in the day, people used Huge bars with eight inches between tops and drops. Nowadays, most bars are about 70-150 reach and maybe 125-150 drop---more of a natural downward and forward swing of the body to fall onto the drops. If your bars are shaped to fit your body, you should be able to ride in the drops without much stress or reaching, and without any more pressure on your hands than when riding on the hoods .... but that is both bar shape and bar position. Needs tweaking as a rule to get it perfectly suited to you.

When I ride the drops it is my swollen belly, not the pressure or distance to the drops that makes me sit up sooner---I like to breathe, and stuff which stops me from breathing, I don't do for too long. Still, on every bike I have my set-up adjusted so I can ride the tops, the flats, the hoods, or the drops without hurting my hands or wrists or locking my elbows or doing any other damaging thing. I like to rest on the bars and hold them, not grip them.


(Sorry ... flats are supposed to be flat but I left them tilted down a bit .... oh well.)
Thanks man! I really appreciate you taking the time to go over this.

Other than simple human anatomy, It seems different drop bars are to be set up differently, particularly ones with clear ergonomic indentations in the drops.

Like I said, my bars are currently angled up a little higher than what you see in the picture above, which is enough to take pressure of my wrists and hands when in the hoods.

If I angle the bars any higher up, my wrist angle will be awkward. Not sure if I have really long and lanky arms and maybe a combination of the drop orientation?
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Old 11-21-21, 10:57 PM
  #43  
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Ride a while, and probably any adjustments you might need will suggest themselves. No clue what might be right for you ..... so put some miles on it and come back and tell us if it was fun.
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Old 11-22-21, 07:10 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Ride a while, and probably any adjustments you might need will suggest themselves. No clue what might be right for you ..... so put some miles on it and come back and tell us if it was fun.
Of course! So far the bike feels really well set up for me, but I do need to take a quick break every 20-30 min or so because it can be pretty hard on my back. With that 110mm stem flipped downwards like stock, that was also fine, but doing some aggressive downhill stuff which required some sudden braking revealing some overly endo prone behavior which indicated that the drops weren't quite in the right place for me to make the most of them at the time.
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Old 11-22-21, 07:23 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Moisture View Post
Of course! So far the bike feels really well set up for me, but I do need to take a quick break every 20-30 min or so because it can be pretty hard on my back. With that 110mm stem flipped downwards like stock, that was also fine, but doing some aggressive downhill stuff which required some sudden braking revealing some overly endo prone behavior which indicated that the drops weren't quite in the right place for me to make the most of them at the time.
If you have to take a break every 20-30 minutes, it's not even close to being "really well set up" for you.
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Old 11-22-21, 07:56 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Moisture View Post
So far the bike feels really well set up for me, but I do need to take a quick break every 20-30 min or so because it can be pretty hard on my back.
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Old 11-22-21, 11:32 PM
  #47  
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A bike shouldn't need to be hard on your back and you shouldn't need to take breaks that often. A bike should be at least somewhat comfortable to you with as many spacers as needed (and that are safe). If all you are interested in, in what random people you might pass while riding then slam that stem and raise the seatpost high and be super uncomfortable and miserable but that guy passing you will certainly not judge you anymore because you are in his special cool guy club that he invented while riding past you in those 2-5 seconds (well really that you invented for him and placed on him as a silent judgement because he probably didn't care). If you are actually interested in comfort make the bike work for you, who the heck cares about spacers. I have spacers under pretty much all my bikes and honestly have ZERO interest in changing that and I really could give a crap what people think because in the end I am happy with my bikes and they are relatively comfortable for me and look good.

The most important thing here is to get a tire meant for the road, trainer tires are NEVER MEANT for road usage. They are purely for use on a trainer. Second which isn't super important but actually shows the bike is take your photos of the DRIVE SIDE of the bicycle. The non-drive side is pretty useless especially on a generic bike like that, certainly if you have a funky paint job on the other side or something really cool you cannot see on the drive side yeah but not the case here.
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Old 11-23-21, 08:03 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Moisture View Post
Of course! So far the bike feels really well set up for me, but I do need to take a quick break every 20-30 min or so because it can be pretty hard on my back.
Holy freaking slab of granite, Batman .... thick as a brick?



Dude .... "really well set up" means you can ride for hours with NO pain. If I couldn't ride for 20 minutes without needing a break I would sell the bike, or burn it----or FIX IT, because your set-up sucks.

Seriously ... everybody says "It works for me" and it is hard to tell, because we all have different bodies, and what "works" is really defined by the rider being able to ride comfortably.

Your Bike Does Not Fit. Forget all the crap about your specific proportions and all that ... the prime determinant of "good set-up" is that the bike is not painful to ride.

Yeah, some set-ups sacrifice a bit of comfort for aero, and some sacrifice a bit of power output for comfort .... but if you cannot ride 20 minutes without having to stop because it hurts, YOU HAVE IT TOTALLY WRONG.

Sorry for the excessive all-caps, but come on .... how can you believe "good set-up" means you can only ride a few miles? Do you think the bike racers doing 150-mile races stop every half an hour? Do you think the people on BF who post about their metric or mile centuries are riding 20 minutes at a time?

I am an old fat fool with weak legs and no stamina, and I can ride for an hour before my back acts up .... and when I rode more often, I could ride several hours with no pain. I just stand up every now and then to get blood flow to the various parts, and shake out my hands now and then---because my legs aren't strong enough, yet. But even now, as unfit as I am, I wouldn't feel my back for an hour, and could probably do 90 minutes before it really started to hurt, and two hours before I would take a five- or ten-minute break.

Your Bike Set-Up Is Crap. Straight up.

Dude think about it .... would you wear a pair of shoes that hurt so much that after half an hour you had to take them off? And would try to tell people "No, they fit fine". Yeah, just not on your feet, maybe ....

I have been trying to be sympathetic towards you, but if you really think bikes are "really well set up" when you can't ride them for half an hour without so much pain you have to stop ....

Either you are completely self-deluding or you are a total troll. There is no way a rational, thoughtful person could say, "the bike feels really well set up for me, but I do need to take a quick break every 20-30 min or so because it can be pretty hard on my back."

Either use the intellect you obviously have and process that statement rationally ... or I will know I got hooked by a troll and will leave you to fool others.

That is the most over-the-top trolling I have ever seen. I am ashamed to have gotten hooked.
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Old 11-23-21, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Either you are completely self-deluding or you are a total troll.
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Old 11-24-21, 02:28 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Moisture View Post
Of course! So far the bike feels really well set up for me
I do need to take a quick break every 20-30 min or so because it can be pretty hard on my back.
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