FBinNY 

Yes, that's the characteristic "freewheel wobble". It's inherent in the design, and the limitations of manufacturing precision. It should be noted that freewheels will wobble exactly the same regardless of the condition of the axle, new, old, straight or bent.

While it could be argued that the freewheel design causes, or at least lends itself to bent or broken axles, that has nothing to do with the wobble either way.

Sixty Fiver

You can buy 8 and 9 speed freewheels... I can't see why you'd want more than 7 for most purposes.

With that being said a regular freehub will not support this while specially designed hubs like Phil Wood and our own Arvon hubs only use freewheels and we have developed some additional modifications to ensure that no axle breakage or bending happens.

Kimmo 

The best design of rear hub by far:



Seriously, why use anything else? They're ubiquitous and bulletproof.

Sixty Fiver

Kimmo 

Looks like nice kit, but why go screw-on? The only reason that occurs to me would be that it's too difficult/expensive to machine the splines to take a Shimano cassette body.

Another benefit of freehubs not already mentioned is that the most loaded bearing cup is replaceable... although it shouldn't die if you keep the hub properly adjusted.

Drew Eckhardt 

1) Not necessarily. Shimano has a patent on the drive-side-cup-in-the-freehub design.

2) Some freewheel hubs have replaceable bearing cups too, notably Campagnolo

peripatetic

I personally have found removing and replacing freewheels quicker and easier than dealing with the cogs and lockrings of freehubs. Tight outer cogs and crappy chainwhips can make for very frustrating work.

FBinNY 

While I too am a believer in freewheels, still using them on some of my bikes, I thought I'd let you know that cassettes have moved past the threaded 1st cog system and now most, if not all, use all slide-on sprockets and an internally splined lock-ring.

nuhtowel

I just rebuilt my freewheel hub for my beater mountain bike, and I highly suggest replacing the axle with something solid opposed to a hallow quick release axle. I bend axles on that bike entirely way too often.

Sixty Fiver

Hollow axles are less prone to bending than most solid ones unless you get a high quality chromoly solid axle... they will break before they bend.

If you look at freehubs and how they are constructed you should realize that they are a much less expensive component than a quality freewheel which has considerably more bearings and pawls and the only limitation of a conventional hub is that it will not handle wider blocks due to the added axle stresses.

Our hubs have as many as 4 cartridge bearings in the rear and as many as 3 up front and use high quality axles, and these bearings also sit a little farther outboard.

Arvon has even designed an axle with an additional bearing to provide better support for 9 speed blocks so you could have a 5 bearing hub although we both agree that you really don't need more than 7 speeds for touring and tandems.

The issue with 8-9 - 10 speed is also the hub width... if you make a wider hub as you do for tandems (145mm) then unsupported axle issues just are not there.

On a touring bike having a freewheel also means that you can fit a spare nearly anywhere you are and the coolest hub I have seen is a double threaded model with dual threading that will take two 7 speed blocks... with this you can fit an alpine block and a road block on the same hub... which is 165mm wide and fits in a custom made frame.

You can get a decent 7 speed freewheel for $15.00 - $20.00 and an IRD will set you back $40.00 - $50.00

spathfinder3408

I guess now your hypersensitivity to this issue now erases my findings due to your hyperbolics in spelling

duckforcover

thank you all for the roller coaster ride...

I screamed, I puked and I got off.

Grand Bois

Does rider weight or rider strength bend axles?

Sixty Fiver

Not exactly... bent axles are caused my metal fatigue and poorer quality axles fatigue far faster than better ones.

This becomes more of an issue when you have to extend the drive side axle to compensate for more cogs.

rekmeyata

I still have 5 bicycles in my collection all with freewheels, one of the bikes I've had since 84 and raced it back then and raced freewheels before that and never had a freewheel fail...wear out yes, fail no. Nor never suffered from a bent or broken axle or hub, in fact never even had bearings fail just the gears would wear out. I've had not problem whatsoever finding new freewheels in todays world of cassettes.

peripatetic

Look up the meaning of the word before you throw it into a comeback. Seriously.

FBinNY 

True, but the response ducks the question. While axle strength, design and bearing placement are factors in predicting when or if an axle will bend or break, rider strength and weight are certainly factors. Regardless of all other considerations, increased load increases the likelihood of failure.

An axle that would easily serve a 120# rider tooling around in flat terrain is more likely to fail with a 250# rider, pounding it up and down steep mtn grades. Weight factors into the vertical stress, and greater chain tensions - typically up to 2-4 times the weight, depending on chainring used -factor in the forward bending moment involved.

Gear choice is also a factor, with greater stress when the chain is inboard, vs. out near the dropout, as does pavement quality, or whether the bike is used for hard offroad use.

The issue of freewheel hub axles failing, isn't black and white, bit more a question of a design being pushed too far, and in some respects replaced with something better.

bobones

I've just had a 3 month old freewheel fail (jammed locked). I think it was a Sunrace. The LBS fitted a new 8 speed replacement, not this particular one, but they are out there. For the reasons Sheldon Brown has given, > 7 speed probably should be dead but the cheapest bikes still seem to be using them.

spathfinder3408

hy·per·bol·ic

   /ˌhaɪpərˈbɒlɪk/ Show Spelled[hahy-per-bol-ik] Show IPA
–adjective 1. having the nature of hyperbole; exaggerated.

Your exaggerating. Unless your dictionary has a different meaning. Really Seriously
Splitting hairs will get you nowhere .

rekmeyata

Your not very well informed on older bikes are you? I lived and raced back in the day these things were around, and all of the top end components had 7 speed freewheels. You also did not read Sheldon Brown at all or did not comprehend what he wrote, here is the direct quote: When Shimano started moving to 7-speed systems, in the mid 1980s, they used their marketing clout to push things along. They did this by making 7-speed an option only supported with their Freehubs, and not making 7-speed freewheels (except for a couple of expensive, high-end road models, Dura-Ace and Santé.) Did you notice the wording? 7 speed freewheels were for expensive high end models, not cheap stuff. LATER when freehubs took over then freewheels in general became regulated to lower end bikes. BUT later still Shimano came back and started making decent 7 speed freewheels. I have the Shimano 7 speeds freewheels and they have been great, foolproof, and long lasting.

bobones

You missed the point entirely. > 7 means greater than 7, i.e. 8 and above. I've said nothing about 7 speed: I was tallking about the availablity and use of 8 speed freewheels today, which was the original point of the thread. Here's what Sheldon said on the subject. 8-speed freewheels were sold for several years, but a very large percentage of the riders who bought them wound up having problems with axle breakage/bendage. As a result, 8-speed freewheels eventually pretty much disappeared from the market. Get it this time?

rekmeyata

The ">" sign I thought was typing error on your part, sorry.

8 speed freewheels were problematic, but there were some high end ones made but those had problems as well. I never had an 8 speed freewheel. But it is possible with todays harder steels that someone could make a successful 8 speed freewheel, but what would be the point? Actually cheap 8 speed freewheels sold mostly on bikes at discount stores held up because the rider was a kid and didn't weigh much, wasn't racing or riding up mountains or touring, they were mostly ridden by kids who couldn't put enough weight or torque on one to bend or break the axle.

I get it this time!

bikeman715

To Werkin, no ,he is referring to the "wobble " freewheel on it own body which all freewheels have to some agree. It can be more noticeable on some that others. But they all have it.