Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Help Needed in Identifying early 1980s Frame.

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Help Needed in Identifying early 1980s Frame.

Old 10-31-20, 05:55 PM
  #1  
MarkinOz
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 117

Bikes: Wilier Cento10Ndr, Giant Anthem 2, 1985 Gefsco, 1979 Gios Torino Super Record, 1983 Peugeot PFN10, Terry Dolan built Reynolds 753 Cougar for Malcolm Elliott

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked 33 Times in 18 Posts
Help Needed in Identifying early 1980s Frame.

Hoping that someone can help shed some light on a frame builder for a bike I saved from heading to a dump in Sydney, Australia.

The frame indicates Reynolds 531 Professional Tubing (early 1980s?) and has Campagnolo dropouts, Cinelli Criterium bars and quill stem, Fiamme wheelset with Spidel hubs and is fitted with a near complete Campagnolo 50th....




Heart shape embellishment visible


The star embellishments around the bottle cage screw




BREV CAMPAGNOLO

Kite shaping with unidentifiable marking inside

...Anniversary Groupset minus the brake lever hoods. The 50th hubs have never been fitted and were in pristine condition sat with the bike.

The frame itself has 3 Campagnolo sticker decals (???), no serial numbers or pantographs and only minimal embellishments in and around the lugs.

Really hoping someone can cast an expert eye over the photos and offer any information as to a possible builder before I start restoration.
MarkinOz is offline  
Old 10-31-20, 06:46 PM
  #2  
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 24,363
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 3,664 Times in 2,497 Posts
All I know is I didn't make it. C&V is much better at this, although people sometimes read both forums

Moved here from framebuilding.

Looking at it again, it's a repaint, I'm pretty sure. Can't believe someone was going to trash it.
unterhausen is offline  
Likes For unterhausen:
Old 10-31-20, 07:05 PM
  #3  
juvela
Senior Member
 
juvela's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 14,324
Mentioned: 414 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3782 Post(s)
Liked 3,285 Times in 2,146 Posts
-----

was thinking respray as well

the transfers almost make it look like a demonstration machine as one might encounter at a trade show or similar exhibit

perhaps there may be some true identity clues remianing beneath it new coat...


MauriceMoss


-----
juvela is offline  
Likes For juvela:
Old 10-31-20, 07:13 PM
  #4  
jdawginsc 
Edumacator
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Goose Creek, SC
Posts: 7,429

Bikes: '87 Crestdale, '87 Basso Gap, '92 Rossin Performance EL-OS, 1990 VanTuyl, 1980s Losa, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 1987 PX10, etc...

Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2385 Post(s)
Liked 2,931 Times in 1,862 Posts
Chromed rear dropouts under the paint...?

Is it definitely 531 if those are re-decals?

Legnano or Atala...?

any lug cutouts other than the brake bridge? Any engraving on the fork crown?
__________________
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super












jdawginsc is offline  
Likes For jdawginsc:
Old 10-31-20, 08:01 PM
  #5  
MarkinOz
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 117

Bikes: Wilier Cento10Ndr, Giant Anthem 2, 1985 Gefsco, 1979 Gios Torino Super Record, 1983 Peugeot PFN10, Terry Dolan built Reynolds 753 Cougar for Malcolm Elliott

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked 33 Times in 18 Posts
Originally Posted by jdawginsc
Chromed rear dropouts under the paint...?

Is it definitely 531 if those are re-decals?

Legnano or Atala...?

any lug cutouts other than the brake bridge? Any engraving on the fork crown?
I weighed the bike as is and it came back as 9.3kg so pretty light for the day.
MarkinOz is offline  
Old 10-31-20, 08:03 PM
  #6  
MarkinOz
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 117

Bikes: Wilier Cento10Ndr, Giant Anthem 2, 1985 Gefsco, 1979 Gios Torino Super Record, 1983 Peugeot PFN10, Terry Dolan built Reynolds 753 Cougar for Malcolm Elliott

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked 33 Times in 18 Posts
Originally Posted by unterhausen
All I know is I didn't make it. C&V is much better at this, although people sometimes read both forums

Moved here from framebuilding.

Looking at it again, it's a repaint, I'm pretty sure. Can't believe someone was going to trash it.
I know, it was cleared from a deceased estate and added to the pile of junk for the tip!!
Was unsure as to whether Framebuilders or C&V was the best start but now I’m threaded in both.
MarkinOz is offline  
Old 10-31-20, 08:05 PM
  #7  
MarkinOz
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 117

Bikes: Wilier Cento10Ndr, Giant Anthem 2, 1985 Gefsco, 1979 Gios Torino Super Record, 1983 Peugeot PFN10, Terry Dolan built Reynolds 753 Cougar for Malcolm Elliott

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked 33 Times in 18 Posts
Originally Posted by juvela
-----

was thinking respray as well

the transfers almost make it look like a demonstration machine as one might encounter at a trade show or similar exhibit

perhaps there may be some true identity clues remianing beneath it new coat...


MauriceMoss


-----
My first thought was that it could be a “Promo” bike for Campagnolo but surely they would have used a frame with Columbus tubing?? Maybe that paint might have to go.....
MarkinOz is offline  
Old 10-31-20, 08:37 PM
  #8  
juvela
Senior Member
 
juvela's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 14,324
Mentioned: 414 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3782 Post(s)
Liked 3,285 Times in 2,146 Posts
-----

iirc think have seen the "kite" symbol on the shell previously

now to see if i can recall where...

happily, another reader shall likely recognize it straightaway

---

in the image of the underside of the shell there appears to be something in the upper left cutout of the shell

it looks like it might be a marking...or possible just a speck of foreign matter

are you able to make it out?

-----
juvela is offline  
Old 10-31-20, 09:05 PM
  #9  
MarkinOz
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 117

Bikes: Wilier Cento10Ndr, Giant Anthem 2, 1985 Gefsco, 1979 Gios Torino Super Record, 1983 Peugeot PFN10, Terry Dolan built Reynolds 753 Cougar for Malcolm Elliott

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked 33 Times in 18 Posts
Originally Posted by juvela
-----

iirc think have seen the "kite" symbol on the shell previously

now to see if i can recall where...

happily, another reader shall likely recognize it straightaway

---

in the image of the underside of the shell there appears to be something in the upper left cutout of the shell

it looks like it might be a marking...or possible just a speck of foreign matter

are you able to make it out?

Is this what you were meaning?? I assumed this was a casting mark...??





-----
Is it
MarkinOz is offline  
Old 10-31-20, 09:27 PM
  #10  
unworthy1
Stop reading my posts!
 
unworthy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,958
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1421 Post(s)
Liked 1,038 Times in 769 Posts
Hitachi investment-cast BB shell. This is very interesting if the tubeset is actually 531 Red Label "Pro". and given the frame bits...might be an American Custom. the headlugs are very minimal, what some call "bikini lugs". subscribing for the updates!
EDIT: I did not notice the OP's location, will revise my guess to say "Australian Custom", but very likely a high-end frame wherever built.

Last edited by unworthy1; 10-31-20 at 09:37 PM.
unworthy1 is offline  
Likes For unworthy1:
Old 10-31-20, 09:41 PM
  #11  
MarkinOz
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 117

Bikes: Wilier Cento10Ndr, Giant Anthem 2, 1985 Gefsco, 1979 Gios Torino Super Record, 1983 Peugeot PFN10, Terry Dolan built Reynolds 753 Cougar for Malcolm Elliott

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked 33 Times in 18 Posts
Originally Posted by unworthy1
Hitachi investment-cast BB shell. This is very interesting if the tubeset is actually 531 Red Label "Pro". and given the frame bits...might be an American Custom. the headlugs are very minimal, what some call "bikini lugs". subscribing for the updates!

Thanks unworthy1 "Bikini Lugs" is a new one for me. Other than the sticker decals claiming "531 Pro" and it coming in as a light bike when weighed, surely there must be another way to confirm the tubing is what it claims it is??
MarkinOz is offline  
Old 10-31-20, 09:56 PM
  #12  
unworthy1
Stop reading my posts!
 
unworthy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,958
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1421 Post(s)
Liked 1,038 Times in 769 Posts
Harder than you'd think (and wish): if this was signaling "Columbus" then you'd check the fork-steerer base for "rifling", but with Reynolds (and the oddball, for a frame, "Campagnolo" decals) nothing can be taken at face value. IF you were to strip all the paint (not my reco) you might luck out to find some very small and faint stamps on the tubing which could say "reynolds 531 db" but often those stampings are cut off or buffed out. Weight compared with a known 531 PRO frame of the same style and size might be the best (but still not 100% conclusive) bet.

Just one more trivia bit: according to this chart of Reynolds decals the forkblade shield IS correct for a 531 PRO red label frame, but it's mentioned the fork blades are "wide oval" so might be something you could measure (at the blade top near the crown) and compare the dimensions, at least if they are "wide-oval" dims then the fork might be legit.

https://www.equusbicycle.com/bike/rey...-transfers.jpg

Last edited by unworthy1; 10-31-20 at 10:09 PM.
unworthy1 is offline  
Likes For unworthy1:
Old 10-31-20, 10:07 PM
  #13  
juvela
Senior Member
 
juvela's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 14,324
Mentioned: 414 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3782 Post(s)
Liked 3,285 Times in 2,146 Posts
-----

thank you for the picture of the marking on the underside of the shell

good to read it has been identified

unfortunately, this does not advance frame ID very far

we have some active framebuilder members here on the C&V

perhaps one of them shall be able to assist...

do not know if we have any experts on OZian artisanal constructeurs

---

curious as to the two markings inside of the "kite"

the lower one appears to be something other than roman alphabet
had been thinking it might be an astrological symbol
but now that we know the origin it is likely a japanese character

might be fun to examine the kite with a magnifying glass to see what the two markings look like...


-----
juvela is offline  
Likes For juvela:
Old 10-31-20, 11:30 PM
  #14  
MarkinOz
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 117

Bikes: Wilier Cento10Ndr, Giant Anthem 2, 1985 Gefsco, 1979 Gios Torino Super Record, 1983 Peugeot PFN10, Terry Dolan built Reynolds 753 Cougar for Malcolm Elliott

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked 33 Times in 18 Posts
Originally Posted by unworthy1
Harder than you'd think (and wish): if this was signaling "Columbus" then you'd check the fork-steerer base for "rifling", but with Reynolds (and the oddball, for a frame, "Campagnolo" decals) nothing can be taken at face value. IF you were to strip all the paint (not my reco) you might luck out to find some very small and faint stamps on the tubing which could say "reynolds 531 db" but often those stampings are cut off or buffed out. Weight compared with a known 531 PRO frame of the same style and size might be the best (but still not 100% conclusive) bet.

Just one more trivia bit: according to this chart of Reynolds decals the forkblade shield IS correct for a 531 PRO red label frame, but it's mentioned the fork blades are "wide oval" so might be something you could measure (at the blade top near the crown) and compare the dimensions, at least if they are "wide-oval" dims then the fork might be legit.

https://www.equusbicycle.com/bike/rey...-transfers.jpg
Thanks unworthy1 , this is great info. Good to hear that yes, according to the Reynolds decal chart the fork stickers match the 531 Pro sticker. Have tried to search for differing dimensions for the fork blades without too much success. It does seem to indicate that the “wide oval” blades should offer a difference to other 531 fork blades.

As an aside, how is the BB shell identified as Hitachi Developments. Was it literally from the casting mark??

This is great info to hear but to a Vintage newbie a lot to take in and understand. The last few weeks have certainly been a “baptism of fire” into the world of Vintage Steel but I’m pretty happy that this bike is my first foray into restoration and ownership.
MarkinOz is offline  
Old 10-31-20, 11:37 PM
  #15  
MarkinOz
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 117

Bikes: Wilier Cento10Ndr, Giant Anthem 2, 1985 Gefsco, 1979 Gios Torino Super Record, 1983 Peugeot PFN10, Terry Dolan built Reynolds 753 Cougar for Malcolm Elliott

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked 33 Times in 18 Posts
Originally Posted by juvela
-----

thank you for the picture of the marking on the underside of the shell

good to read it has been identified

unfortunately, this does not advance frame ID very far

we have some active framebuilder members here on the C&V

perhaps one of them shall be able to assist...

do not know if we have any experts on OZian artisanal constructeurs

---

curious as to the two markings inside of the "kite"

the lower one appears to be something other than roman alphabet
had been thinking it might be an astrological symbol
but now that we know the origin it is likely a japanese character

might be fun to examine the kite with a magnifying glass to see what the two markings look like...


-----
Thanks juvela , I realise that this is predominantly a US forum but thought it better to send out the research “far and wide” to maximise the collective brains trust. I’ve engaged with Bicycle Network Australia in the hope that an Aussie frame builder or collector might recognise something.

The kite mark is proving hard to get a clear picture of as the paint obscured the image. I’ll keep trying to get a clearer picture than what’s posted already.
MarkinOz is offline  
Old 11-01-20, 02:07 AM
  #16  
Gary Fountain
Senior Member
 
Gary Fountain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Hervey Bay, Qld, Australia.
Posts: 2,925

Bikes: Colnago (82, 85, 89, 90, 91, 96, 03), 85 Cinelli, 90 Rossin, 83 Alan, 82 Bianchi, 78 Fountain, 2 x Pinarello, Malvern Star (37), Hillman (70's), 80's Beretto Lo-Pro Track, 80's Kenevans Lo-Pro, Columbus Max (95), DeGrandi (80's) Track.

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 176 Post(s)
Liked 196 Times in 122 Posts
I think it would be a 'long shot' to identify the builder of this frame. It has all the hallmarks of a locally (Aust.) built frame without any sort of serial number. I would guess a mid to late 80's build considering the two sets of bidon mounts. It is a re-paint as previously discussed and the decals were easy to come by on sheets of assorted decals available around that time. I would guess that the frame owner may not have had access to original decals as they were really hard to find back then so the owner went for a 'set' of decals that would just suit the frame and possibly the components used to kit the frame out.

It's a nice looking frame but I wouldn't place too much emphasis on the Reynolds 531 Pro decals as I think they may have been chosen for the red in the decal matching the red of the frame. Reynolds 531 Pro frames are hard to come by but it is easy to buy those decals now. It does look like a Reynolds frame though and the front fork crown does look like a typical crown used on Reynolds frames. Does it have a British bottom bracket - (68mm wide)?

It does have some very nice and some highly desirable components. I reckon it needs an era correct Concor saddle.

Re the tubing - have a look at this website: https://kuromori.home.blog/reynolds-531/
- The chain stays, seat stays and steerer tubes may help to identify if it is actually Reynolds pro tubing.

Last edited by Gary Fountain; 11-01-20 at 02:34 AM.
Gary Fountain is offline  
Likes For Gary Fountain:
Old 11-01-20, 02:08 AM
  #17  
merziac
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 14,101

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 267 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4493 Post(s)
Liked 6,297 Times in 3,632 Posts
Originally Posted by MarkinOz
Thanks unworthy1 , this is great info. Good to hear that yes, according to the Reynolds decal chart the fork stickers match the 531 Pro sticker. Have tried to search for differing dimensions for the fork blades without too much success. It does seem to indicate that the “wide oval” blades should offer a difference to other 531 fork blades.

As an aside, how is the BB shell identified as Hitachi Developments. Was it literally from the casting mark??

This is great info to hear but to a Vintage newbie a lot to take in and understand. The last few weeks have certainly been a “baptism of fire” into the world of Vintage Steel but I’m pretty happy that this bike is my first foray into restoration and ownership.
That mark is literally the main Hitachi trademark they have/had used for decades, likely the original.

https://www.google.com/search?source...PpM_oLYuF1yhQM
merziac is online now  
Likes For merziac:
Old 11-01-20, 02:21 AM
  #18  
MarkinOz
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 117

Bikes: Wilier Cento10Ndr, Giant Anthem 2, 1985 Gefsco, 1979 Gios Torino Super Record, 1983 Peugeot PFN10, Terry Dolan built Reynolds 753 Cougar for Malcolm Elliott

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked 33 Times in 18 Posts
Originally Posted by merziac
That mark is literally the main Hitachi trademark they have/had used for decades, likely the original.

https://www.google.com/search?source...PpM_oLYuF1yhQM
Hahaha that’s awesome, right under my nose the whole time. Can’t remember seeing the Hitachi Trademark for years, completely forgot what it looked like.
MarkinOz is offline  
Likes For MarkinOz:
Old 11-01-20, 02:28 AM
  #19  
merziac
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 14,101

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 267 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4493 Post(s)
Liked 6,297 Times in 3,632 Posts
Originally Posted by MarkinOz
Hahaha that’s awesome, right under my nose the whole time. Can’t remember seeing the Hitachi Trademark for years, completely forgot what it looked like.
Nothing like dating ourselves from one side of the world to the other.
merziac is online now  
Likes For merziac:
Old 11-01-20, 02:44 AM
  #20  
MarkinOz
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 117

Bikes: Wilier Cento10Ndr, Giant Anthem 2, 1985 Gefsco, 1979 Gios Torino Super Record, 1983 Peugeot PFN10, Terry Dolan built Reynolds 753 Cougar for Malcolm Elliott

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked 33 Times in 18 Posts
Originally Posted by Gary Fountain
I think it would be a 'long shot' to identify the builder of this frame. It has all the hallmarks of a locally (Aust.) built frame without any sort of serial number. I would guess a mid to late 80's build considering the two sets of bidon mounts. It is a re-paint as previously discussed and the decals were easy to come by on sheets of assorted decals available around that time. I would guess that the frame owner may not have had access to original decals as they were really hard to find back then so the owner went for a 'set' of decals that would just suit the frame and possibly the components used to kit the frame out.

It's a nice looking frame but I wouldn't place too much emphasis on the Reynolds 531 Pro decals as I think they may have been chosen for the red in the decal matching the red of the frame. Reynolds 531 Pro frames are hard to come by but it is easy to buy those decals now. It does look like a Reynolds frame though and the front fork crown does look like a typical crown used on Reynolds frames. Does it have a British bottom bracket - (68mm wide)?

It does have some very nice and some highly desirable components. I reckon it needs an era correct Concor saddle.
Really appreciate you running an eye over the bike Gary Fountain , thanks. Apart from the missing hoods I will, as you’ve pointed out, need a period saddle. I’ll check out the Concor.

BB confirmed as British thread as are the Campagnolo Hubs.
MarkinOz is offline  
Old 11-01-20, 03:22 AM
  #21  
Gary Fountain
Senior Member
 
Gary Fountain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Hervey Bay, Qld, Australia.
Posts: 2,925

Bikes: Colnago (82, 85, 89, 90, 91, 96, 03), 85 Cinelli, 90 Rossin, 83 Alan, 82 Bianchi, 78 Fountain, 2 x Pinarello, Malvern Star (37), Hillman (70's), 80's Beretto Lo-Pro Track, 80's Kenevans Lo-Pro, Columbus Max (95), DeGrandi (80's) Track.

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 176 Post(s)
Liked 196 Times in 122 Posts
Originally Posted by MarkinOz
Really appreciate you running an eye over the bike Gary Fountain , thanks. Apart from the missing hoods I will, as you’ve pointed out, need a period saddle. I’ll check out the Concor.

BB confirmed as British thread as are the Campagnolo Hubs.
It's a very nice bike and I'm a sucker for Campagnolo / Cinelli components. Having what looks like a 1983 50th anniversary groupset is the real icing on the cake. Personally, it's a REALLY desirable set of components although not everyone cares for the 50th gruppo. I think the original owner probably used Campagnolo decals to highlight the 50th components - If it was mine and I was reconditioning the frame and I couldn't use/source original decals, I would also consider just using Campy decals too. I really hope it's a Reynolds Pro frame as well.
Gary Fountain is offline  
Likes For Gary Fountain:
Old 11-01-20, 03:26 AM
  #22  
MarkinOz
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 117

Bikes: Wilier Cento10Ndr, Giant Anthem 2, 1985 Gefsco, 1979 Gios Torino Super Record, 1983 Peugeot PFN10, Terry Dolan built Reynolds 753 Cougar for Malcolm Elliott

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked 33 Times in 18 Posts
Originally Posted by merziac
Nothing like dating ourselves from one side of the world to the other.
MarkinOz is offline  
Old 11-01-20, 04:23 AM
  #23  
bulgie 
blahblahblah chrome moly
 
bulgie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,977
Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1162 Post(s)
Liked 2,542 Times in 1,065 Posts
The Hitachi mark does mean it was cast there, but that's not the "brand". I think it's an Eisho shell, and they used Hitachi as their casting partner. Takahashi also made shells and crowns with the Hitachi mark.

The lugs are either Eisho Royal or a very good knock-off — I'm betting they are real Eisho lugs. Which is a good thing, they are terrific, super well made and aesthetically pleasing (to me). They're popular with high-end Japanese FBs, especially Keirin. You could get them in other countries though, so this doesn't narrow it down. I made maybe a half-dozen custom frames with those lugs.

I slightly preferred the Takahashi shell (also cast by Hitachi as I said) but my reasons are not important — the Eisho shell is awesome, way nicer than a Cinelli IMHO. The castings you can buy nowadays are mostly crap by comparison. I don't mean they break or anything practical like that, I just mean the curves aren't as pleasing and the surface finish is rougher. You have to hold the raw shell or lugs in your hands to appreciate how finely-made they were. Or maybe still are, if they're still made? I haven't been able to find any to buy for quite some time, but no doubt there are stashes of them in some better Keirin framebuilders' ateliers. Since I'm not currently building frames, I haven't been looking too hard.

Mark B in Seattle
bulgie is offline  
Likes For bulgie:
Old 11-01-20, 11:33 AM
  #24  
unworthy1
Stop reading my posts!
 
unworthy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,958
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1421 Post(s)
Liked 1,038 Times in 769 Posts
Excellent details noted by Mark B. (bulgie) and he's one who knows! Agree with the "Eisho" connection and even though all these bits were very popular with US Custom builders, maybe even more so with Aussie builders (proximity). I have heard there was (maybe still is) a hotbed of custom building centered in Adelaide, any way of reaching out to some experts in that area?
unworthy1 is offline  
Likes For unworthy1:
Old 11-01-20, 12:20 PM
  #25  
pcb 
Senior Member
 
pcb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Joisey
Posts: 1,477
Mentioned: 91 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 377 Post(s)
Liked 625 Times in 286 Posts
I'm somewhat shocked to think that I'm the first one in this thread to say, nay, shout: "HOLY MOLY, THAT HAS TO BE THE BEST DUMPSTER FIND IN THE WORLD, EVER!!!!!!!" Not sure that's enough exclamation marks, so here's some more: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The only way it could be any better would be if the frame was clearly the work of a master builder, including Bulgie, identified as such with original paint/decals. There's easily north of US$1k in just the 50th Anniv parts after they're cleaned up. Potentially north of $2k if they clean up real pretty.

My first thought was it could be a show bike frame/build, maybe by a local Oz importer, so matching Campy/Columbus was less important than it might be for Campy proper. But could just as easily be a rabid Campy fan's feverish dream bike, nothing but Campy decals and 50th Anniv bits. I'm not a rabid Campy fan, but I could stare lovingly at that bike, displayed in my living room, for many a year.

Bulgie the master builder has a keen eye for the bits and much else, his word is final on that score. It seems to me that there aren't any identifiable details in the frame construction that tie it to any particular builder, or even a smaller group/region of builders. There could be something there that somebody will spot, but nothing very distinctive so far. It's important to note that doesn't mean the frame is any way inferior, it looks very well-built. There just doesn't appear to be any unique "signature" feature that would help pin down the actual builder.

I don't want this to take a morbid turn, but if OP knows the name of the original owner, or can figure it out, the undergrad historian in me, combined with the space-age cyberstalker in me, thinks it might be worth doing some web searching to see if they had any online presence. They might have posted something about the bike in a forum somewhere, sometime. Might turn up nothing, might find their post saying: "Hey, I just had my custom Llewellyn repainted with only Campy decals to show off my 50th Anniv parts." Cyberstalker confession: Llewellyn was the first hit I got searching for "australia bicycle framebuilder." I know an Ozzie named Peter Somebody built the Scandium Fuji Pro frames 20yrs ago, but can't remember his last name, and couldn't get a search hit.

Update: just found it, Peter Teschner. He didn't start building till '90, not sure he ever built lugged frames. Looks like he started importing/repping another brand before leaving the biz in 2012 to head a local gov't tourist promotion council, then went back into the bike biz in '18 as GM of the bicycle division of Titomic, a local hi-tech metallurgy company. He has 3 children....sorry, just making up that last bit about possible children. Geez, I gotta get off the internet....

But the most important thing to say is: Well done, sir.
__________________
Fuggedaboutit!

Last edited by pcb; 11-01-20 at 12:32 PM.
pcb is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.