Rthomason

I'm new to the forum and would like to connect with members that have knowledge or interest in a 1983 Centurion Cinelli Project bike. I just rebuilt mine after not riding it for several years and would like some conversation with others that may have the same bike. It's a little confusing for me because there were many 'project' bikes from Centurion back in the 80's.

Hobbiano 

Welcome to the forum! Once you get ten post you can post pictures and I think you'll get more interest. In the meantime, here's mine. I bought it used sometime in the eighties. It was already repainted when I bought it.

Campagnerdo 

Oh, she's elegant, Hobbiano. My favorite "version" of this frame, with the Supercorsa style fork. Here's mine, excuse the poor lighting.

Hobbiano 

Here's a few more details. Also an add (from forum member jonsan's post in an earlier thread)

bikingshearer 

I've always liked the whole East-meets-West vibe of the Centurionellis. Nice looking frames. How do they ride?

Rthomason

I took this out for a quick 11 miler last week and it was horrible! It seems unbelievable that I took this bike on countless 70 - 100 rides (although I was 35 years younger). I realize that it's all subjective but I've gotten spoiled by the comfort of carbon frames, an endurance riding position, and brake hood shifting. It also seems super-small and touchy like a criterium bike. I'm going to clean it up and sell it. It is cool looking, though ....

Eric F 

Maybe try making some adjustments to make it fit more like the bikes you're comfortable riding and see if it changes your opinion. I had a similar experience in a recent rehab of a Nishiki. The first couple of rides were okay, but not "right". When I put a longer stem and wider bars on it (to match the fit of my other road bikes), it got a lot better.

Hobbiano 

Maybe you should have said you thought it was terrible in your first post.

Fahrenheit531 

Well that train wrecked in a hurry. But wait! What of this Centurion-Cinelli collaboration? I had no idea until right now that such a thing even existed and that's a really freaking cool bike. Gorgeous.

smontanaro 

I think Robbie Tunes (bumped from BF some while ago) was the expert on the Centurion Cinelli collaboration.

texaspandj

Hmmm, I might be interested in the frame alone.
Pm me.

satbuilder 

Skip, I think Robbie’s still here. Saw him post earlier today. Edit: it was an old post, so you may be right

Kurt

Hobbiano 

Thanks. There was also a Centurion Equipe that I think followed the Cinelli Project. Read about it here: https://www.classicrendezvous.com/ima...ion_Equipe.pdf
The project bikes were a little different and there may have been different versions of each. RT did know as much as anybody about these and I remember him replying to a thread with a good explanation of these. I see if I can find it.

Hobbiano 

Here's what Robbie had to say about it:

"It was a well done bike, sold by Bikecology out of their catalog. Alan Goldsmith, who consulted for Western States Imports (Centurion), very likely contracted for these. He either owned or was a principal at Bikecology.

The bike was very likely made by Chirico, a shop in Bussero (outskirts of Milan) that had a long partnership with Cinelli, and made some Cinelli frames for them. Chirico's son was an "apprentice" frame builder at Cinelli from 1972 until 1984, when he returned to his father's shop in Chirico. He and his father then patented a fork-making process (both internal and external lugs) and they churned out a lot of high-end forks for multiple brands in Europe. One of the rarer dropouts or fork ends is one stamped "CHIRICO." They made some custom frames, some North American-intended Cinelli's, and likely some racing frames (notably the Super Corsa's with eyelets used on European brevets).

Alan Goldsmith went to visit Cino Cinelli, precisely to contract for a production run of the Equipes, and the main negotiation was the size and placement of the Cinelli logo. This was a concern of Cinelli throughout the production of frames for others (Lotus, Centurion, etc) outside the umbrella of "normal" production Cinellis.

Goldsmith met with the elder Cinelli, then Andreas, and the deal was done for a shipping container full of the Equipe. Chirico was contracted for those frames, and then the rest of the time was spent at Cino's olive orchards.

Goldsmith returned to consult on the "modern" Ironman models, started Park Pre bikes with his wife, and then went on to other small companies like Specialized....

He never figured out the fuss over the Ironman models, but I'm sure he didn't dwell on it. He was/is an important figure in the industry, and also a full-time lawyer.

I'll never really know if the Project came before the Equipe, or at the same time through different distribution, or after. The pantographs are oriented differently, and of course, less chrome. The frames are pretty nice. A ton of them ended up under racers, likely purchased out of the Bikecology catalog and built up. They're as Italian as any bike made in Italy, and pedigreed as well. Cinelli and Chirico go way back."

Or here's a link to that thread with more pictures of my bike: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...li-equipe.html

And here a link to maybe everything known about these bikes: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...centurion.html

Fahrenheit531 

Well how cool is that.

Rthomason

In the post I did comment that it was "all subjective". Not really sure why the correction.

Rthomason

Eric - Thanks for your thoughts. I really don't think I can get this to a bike that I would really enjoy riding. There are just too many technological advancements that have happened in bicycling over the decades. I realize that many would like the feel of an older bike, not to mention the cool look. It's just not for me. Thanks again.

T-Mar

Collaborations between American marketing companies and Italian companies were a mini-trend in the mid-1980s. When they couldn't crack the high end market to the desired extent with Japanese made models, Centurion, Lotus and Nishiki all introduced high end models manufactured in Italy using Columbus tubesets and Campagnolo parts. They all disappeared within a few years, shortly after Shimano introducing SIS in new Dura-Ace. Like Centurion, Lotus used the high recognition Cinelli connection, while possible Nishiki sources have been suggested as Colnago, Olmo and Viner

Fahrenheit531 

Thanks for the big-picture view, T-Mar. Gonna have to keep these on my radar, although I suspect they're an uncommon find....

smontanaro 

I suspect the fundamental distinction between normal contracting relationships and the Centurion/Lotus/Nishiki collaborations with Italian makers was that the Italians on the other side those relationships were already big names in the US. Ben Lawee's Italvega, as a complementary example, also connected an American marketing company with a well-established Italian manufacturer (Torpado in this case) which — though very big — wasn't as well known this side of the pond.

T-Mar

The Italvega manufacturer, Torresini, was big on volume, not prestige. During the decade following the bicycle boom, the high end market switched from primarily models from full-range manufacturers to models from smaller, more exclusive (and primarily Italian) manufacturers. The USA companies behind Centurion, Lotus and Nishiki were simply following the market trend, after models from their Japanese sources failed to make a substantial impression on the high end market. In the case of Nishiki, they didn't advertise the identity of their Italian sources. Lawee tried to cover the same bases, with a new Italian sourced brand, Bertoni, again without fanfare for the source. A big name like Cinelli might have been nice but it wasn't a prerequisite.

Rthomason

Hobbiano - I agree, it did sound a little harsh. Let me try again. I think it's a cool bike in many ways but for me, it's just too uncomfortable. At 71 years old, I appreciate the comfort of modern technology and frame design. Thanks for posting you beautiful Centurion Cinelli. It's absolutely gorgeous!

Rthomason

texaspandj - Thanks for your interest but I'd like to at least try to sell the entire bike rather than part it out. I just had the bike refurbished and it's mechanically solid with a complete component clean up (Campy NR), new Campy Chorus brakes/wheels/tires/cables/seat. The frame shows much wear and tear from years of riding and I still have to do clean up and rust removal. Thanks again.

texaspandj

Gotcha .
I like me some Italian bikes...not so much their components.

Hobbiano 

A nice steel frame bike can be very comfortable when set up so it's right for you. Nice supple tires make a difference, as well as just about everything else. It's a process of trial & error getting everything right.