Vista Bicycles
03-14-21, 10:15 AM
#51
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Bikes: '81 Vista Espada Mixte, '96(?) Lemond Zurich, '20 State 4130 All Road
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Piling on! Newbie here who started lurking on bikeforums to learn about my '79 Vista Espada mixte. 
Found the specs page of a '79 Vista catalog and everything listed for the diamond frame seems to match up w. my mixte:
-Araya 1435 tubing
-Dia Compe brakes w. turkey levers
-Suntour Powershift stem shifters
-Suntour VGT-Luxe RD/Compe-V FD
-Sugino 165mm cranks
Accidentally traded away my original steel wheels+freehub for lighter aluminum before I understood anything about compatibility, and the 5 speed freehub that's on there now isn't playing nice with the Powershifters. I'd initially assumed they were regular friction shifters, but no. The ratcheting intervals on the downshift don't line up with the gears, so downshifting is a pain. I usually shift a gear or two past where I need to, then use the friction shifting on the upshift to get it into the desired chainring. Suntour 5 and 6 speed freehubs are available on eBay, so I think I'm going to try to get a vintage replacement. The 5 speeds seem to be a bit more common though, so I'm trying to figure out:
a) Do vintage mixte components usually match the diamond frames of the same model? The spec sheet lists the diamond frame as having a 14-28 6-speed, but my husband swears it came with a 5 speed, and this bike seems to have been entirely original when I got it.
b) Does it matter? I'm intrigued by the Powershift shifters, and want them to work as intended. My impression is that it's the Suntour gear spacing that's the compatibility issue, not necessarily the number of gears. I've seen a number of 5 speed hubs that look to be in decent shape, and wouldn't be mad about having a 10 speed bike instead of a 12 speed...
Any advice/info appreciated! (And/or suggestions as to where else I should post this question)
PS--No photos allowed yet because I'm a newb, but will come back and post photos of said mixte when I've made the requisite 10 posts.
Found the specs page of a '79 Vista catalog and everything listed for the diamond frame seems to match up w. my mixte:
-Araya 1435 tubing
-Dia Compe brakes w. turkey levers
-Suntour Powershift stem shifters
-Suntour VGT-Luxe RD/Compe-V FD
-Sugino 165mm cranks
Accidentally traded away my original steel wheels+freehub for lighter aluminum before I understood anything about compatibility, and the 5 speed freehub that's on there now isn't playing nice with the Powershifters. I'd initially assumed they were regular friction shifters, but no. The ratcheting intervals on the downshift don't line up with the gears, so downshifting is a pain. I usually shift a gear or two past where I need to, then use the friction shifting on the upshift to get it into the desired chainring. Suntour 5 and 6 speed freehubs are available on eBay, so I think I'm going to try to get a vintage replacement. The 5 speeds seem to be a bit more common though, so I'm trying to figure out:
a) Do vintage mixte components usually match the diamond frames of the same model? The spec sheet lists the diamond frame as having a 14-28 6-speed, but my husband swears it came with a 5 speed, and this bike seems to have been entirely original when I got it.
b) Does it matter? I'm intrigued by the Powershift shifters, and want them to work as intended. My impression is that it's the Suntour gear spacing that's the compatibility issue, not necessarily the number of gears. I've seen a number of 5 speed hubs that look to be in decent shape, and wouldn't be mad about having a 10 speed bike instead of a 12 speed...
Any advice/info appreciated! (And/or suggestions as to where else I should post this question)
PS--No photos allowed yet because I'm a newb, but will come back and post photos of said mixte when I've made the requisite 10 posts.
03-15-21, 06:06 AM
#52
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The mixte version of a diamond frame model typically have the same specs. In this case, I suspect your bicycle is slightly older than 1979, as this is just about the time that many companies switched from 5 to 6 speed freewheels. The serial number should allow us to accurately date you bicycle.
SunTour's Powershifters utilize a ratchet mechanism to counteract the derailleur spring and decrease shifting force. The ratchet intervals are not designed to index with cog spacing. They are intended to work with 5 or 6 speed freewheels of any cog spacing. Over shifting and subsequent trimming is normal (to varying degrees) on friction shifting derailleur systems.
Ignore the 10 post requirement if you want to post photographs. While the photographs will not attach to your post, they will be deposited in a gallery album where members can view them.
SunTour's Powershifters utilize a ratchet mechanism to counteract the derailleur spring and decrease shifting force. The ratchet intervals are not designed to index with cog spacing. They are intended to work with 5 or 6 speed freewheels of any cog spacing. Over shifting and subsequent trimming is normal (to varying degrees) on friction shifting derailleur systems.
Ignore the 10 post requirement if you want to post photographs. While the photographs will not attach to your post, they will be deposited in a gallery album where members can view them.
03-15-21, 12:42 PM
#53
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Posts: 4
Bikes: '81 Vista Espada Mixte, '96(?) Lemond Zurich, '20 State 4130 All Road
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Hi T-Mar, thanks for the reply! I've gone down a few internet rabbit holes trying to figure out a little more, and am curious to know what my serial # can tell you!
ARYI 016550
I found that the issue I'm having seems to be pretty well summarized in this post on another forum site (link at the bottom, but I'll quote in case it doesn't come through)
I've tried to load photos, but it seems my post is won't go through if I do? Apologies, I'm not super internet-forum savvy!
ARYI 016550
I found that the issue I'm having seems to be pretty well summarized in this post on another forum site (link at the bottom, but I'll quote in case it doesn't come through)
However the ratchet action in these shifters also has two possible side-effects
a) the downshifts can be 'semi-indexed' (if the cable pulls work out so that a whole number of clicks corresponds to the cable pull that would be generated by an indexed shifter compatible with that RD and that cassette) i.e. so that no trimming might be required on downshifts, provided the appropriate number of clicks is used. Or
b) if there isn't a good match between the cable pull arising from a whole number of clicks and what is required to make the shift.
Now random combinations of shifter, mech and cassette are most likely to result in a type b) situation. BITD (well before indexed shifting was a thing) SunTour must have known about this because they arranged it that if you used the SunTour powershift levers with a V-luxe RD and a standard 5s or 6s freewheel, it gave semi-indexed shifting. I remember observing this on a friend's bike in about 1978 (when you are slogging up a long climb on someone's wheel, there is nothing much else to look at other than the other guy's gears, and the mind tends to wander some what....) , and he confirmed that it required exactly four clicks for one downshift.
I've experienced what seems like the "type b situation" that this person describes...the downshifts are a struggle, but the friction-only upshifts are extremely easy and smooth. Good to know that the shifters *should* work with 5 or 6 speed! The one currently on the bike is a modern 5-speed 'Ventura' that was a leftover from another bike and is seems like it's in good shape...but I think I'm still going to hunt for a Suntour freewheel in hopes of getting a cleaner downshift/to satisfy my curiosity about whether it would work better.a) the downshifts can be 'semi-indexed' (if the cable pulls work out so that a whole number of clicks corresponds to the cable pull that would be generated by an indexed shifter compatible with that RD and that cassette) i.e. so that no trimming might be required on downshifts, provided the appropriate number of clicks is used. Or
b) if there isn't a good match between the cable pull arising from a whole number of clicks and what is required to make the shift.
Now random combinations of shifter, mech and cassette are most likely to result in a type b) situation. BITD (well before indexed shifting was a thing) SunTour must have known about this because they arranged it that if you used the SunTour powershift levers with a V-luxe RD and a standard 5s or 6s freewheel, it gave semi-indexed shifting. I remember observing this on a friend's bike in about 1978 (when you are slogging up a long climb on someone's wheel, there is nothing much else to look at other than the other guy's gears, and the mind tends to wander some what....) , and he confirmed that it required exactly four clicks for one downshift.
I've tried to load photos, but it seems my post is won't go through if I do? Apologies, I'm not super internet-forum savvy!
03-15-21, 02:24 PM
#54
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Hi T-Mar, thanks for the reply! I've gone down a few internet rabbit holes trying to figure out a little more, and am curious to know what my serial # can tell you!
ARYI 016550
I found that the issue I'm having seems to be pretty well summarized in this post on another forum site (link at the bottom, but I'll quote in case it doesn't come through)
I've tried to load photos, but it seems my post is won't go through if I do? Apologies, I'm not super internet-forum savvy!
ARYI 016550
I found that the issue I'm having seems to be pretty well summarized in this post on another forum site (link at the bottom, but I'll quote in case it doesn't come through)
However the ratchet action in these shifters also has two possible side-effects
a) the downshifts can be 'semi-indexed' (if the cable pulls work out so that a whole number of clicks corresponds to the cable pull that would be generated by an indexed shifter compatible with that RD and that cassette) i.e. so that no trimming might be required on downshifts, provided the appropriate number of clicks is used. Or
b) if there isn't a good match between the cable pull arising from a whole number of clicks and what is required to make the shift.
Now random combinations of shifter, mech and cassette are most likely to result in a type b) situation. BITD (well before indexed shifting was a thing) SunTour must have known about this because they arranged it that if you used the SunTour powershift levers with a V-luxe RD and a standard 5s or 6s freewheel, it gave semi-indexed shifting. I remember observing this on a friend's bike in about 1978 (when you are slogging up a long climb on someone's wheel, there is nothing much else to look at other than the other guy's gears, and the mind tends to wander some what....) , and he confirmed that it required exactly four clicks for one downshift.
I've experienced what seems like the "type b situation" that this person describes...the downshifts are a struggle, but the friction-only upshifts are extremely easy and smooth. Good to know that the shifters *should* work with 5 or 6 speed! The one currently on the bike is a modern 5-speed 'Ventura' that was a leftover from another bike and is seems like it's in good shape...but I think I'm still going to hunt for a Suntour freewheel in hopes of getting a cleaner downshift/to satisfy my curiosity about whether it would work better.a) the downshifts can be 'semi-indexed' (if the cable pulls work out so that a whole number of clicks corresponds to the cable pull that would be generated by an indexed shifter compatible with that RD and that cassette) i.e. so that no trimming might be required on downshifts, provided the appropriate number of clicks is used. Or
b) if there isn't a good match between the cable pull arising from a whole number of clicks and what is required to make the shift.
Now random combinations of shifter, mech and cassette are most likely to result in a type b) situation. BITD (well before indexed shifting was a thing) SunTour must have known about this because they arranged it that if you used the SunTour powershift levers with a V-luxe RD and a standard 5s or 6s freewheel, it gave semi-indexed shifting. I remember observing this on a friend's bike in about 1978 (when you are slogging up a long climb on someone's wheel, there is nothing much else to look at other than the other guy's gears, and the mind tends to wander some what....) , and he confirmed that it required exactly four clicks for one downshift.
I've tried to load photos, but it seems my post is won't go through if I do? Apologies, I'm not super internet-forum savvy!
Your serial number indicates that the frame was manufactured in December 1980 by Araya of Japan. That's late enough in the calendar that it's almost certainly a 1981 model. The catalogue page is actually dated January 1981. So that should be the actual catalogue page for your Espada and indicates that it was originally a 6 speed freewheel.
However, that doesn't mean that things will work better if you switch to a Maeda/SunTour 6 speed freewheel. Those Powershifters will get you close to having the jockey pulley aligned with the cog, but it won't be perfect or as good as indexed shifting.
Last edited by T-Mar; 03-15-21 at 02:29 PM.
03-15-21, 02:55 PM
#55
Shifting is fun!
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Update on the Islena I posted back in '13: at the time I stripped the bike to use its parts on other projects, and a few months ago I finally got around to doing something with the frame.
I built it into a parts bin special for winter duty, and was somewhat surprised by how stiff it felt. That and the vertical dropouts might tempt me to add a couple of racks and fenders and see how it feels with luggage.
I built it into a parts bin special for winter duty, and was somewhat surprised by how stiff it felt. That and the vertical dropouts might tempt me to add a couple of racks and fenders and see how it feels with luggage.
03-16-21, 12:21 PM
#56
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Bikes: '81 Vista Espada Mixte, '96(?) Lemond Zurich, '20 State 4130 All Road
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Your serial number indicates that the frame was manufactured in December 1980 by Araya of Japan. That's late enough in the calendar that it's almost certainly a 1981 model. The catalogue page is actually dated January 1981. So that should be the actual catalogue page for your Espada and indicates that it was originally a 6 speed freewheel.
However, that doesn't mean that things will work better if you switch to a Maeda/SunTour 6 speed freewheel. Those Powershifters will get you close to having the jockey pulley aligned with the cog, but it won't be perfect or as good as indexed shifting.
However, that doesn't mean that things will work better if you switch to a Maeda/SunTour 6 speed freewheel. Those Powershifters will get you close to having the jockey pulley aligned with the cog, but it won't be perfect or as good as indexed shifting.
Yeeeeah, I know it's not the same as indexed shifting, but I'm hoping it might work a tiny bit better...or I have to work on my shifting game with this bike. I'm also just kind of interested in ARAYA/Vista and SunTour in a bike-history kind of way and think it would be cool to match it back up.
BUT...I also have a set of Soma Sparrow bars that can accommodate bar end shifters, and the guy I bought them from was convinced that eventually I'd want to try them on this bike... so, TBD if I will stick with the stem shifters anyway?!
03-16-21, 01:17 PM
#57
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06-07-23, 09:29 AM
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A neighbor has a Vista buried under a pile of junk on his porch that he said he took to Europe in the late '70s. Claims it 'was a fancy bike back then...' He keeps saying he'll unearth it for me, though he can be rather.... slow moving. I'm feeding his cat while he's on a fishing trip and I at least could see the handlebars sticking out of the pile (it quite literally is a giant pile of junk....). It's got Shimano Fingertip Control bar-end shifters, so at least I don't think it's 'entry level'... I think the shifters are likely stock, as I kind of doubt he would've done much to modify a bike, but I might be wrong on that. Though if they are, I wonder if that might help ID the model? Anyway, more to come...
