sdowen

I have a New York U-lock on the way from Amazon. As usual, it’s a better deterrent to have two locks to protect a bike. I’m looking between the new Ziilock and the infamous Skunklock.

I’m protecting a brand new Trek FX3

Which one would you choose? Is there another lock you would consider for a 2nd lock?

veganbikes

None of the above Faggettabout low quality locks with gimmicks. If I want a good lock I am going to go with an ABUS lock and probably would stick with Bordo Granit X-Plus or go with the Granit CityChain XPlus as well as locks for wheels and potentially other components (ala PitLock) If I want max security and weight wasn't an issue I would look at this one. With the Granit Power Chain I could get other plus keyed locks keyed a like to it so I only have one key to worry about when opening locks.

The only thing I found on Zillock was in Korean and not an official website? Not a good sign. The Skunklock is a gimmick and certainly something that can fail easily. I want my lock filled with properly hardened and tempered virgin steel ideally made by someone who invented the damn thing and continues innovating and testing products to the extreme. I don't want a thing some guys made in their basement and sold it on kickstarter at least not to protect my bike.

blakcloud

I have 9 assorted Kryptonite locks, 2 Abus Granite Bordo folding locks and Pitlock for the wheels. So I can mix and match depending on the risk that I need to deal with.

The problem with any second lock is that you actually have to carry all that weight. That is why I really like the Pitlock for the wheels, they weigh nothing. The only problem with Pitlock is it looks like the wheels are not locked to the casual observer/thief. For this reason just having a cable lock as a visual deterrent might help. You only have to make your bike harder to steal than the others around it.

My choice would be a Krypto cable with Pitlocks for both wheels and your U lock and you will be safer than most.

sdowen

I’m planning to get Pitlocks. I went with the Kryptonite New York for main the lock. Abus 540’s have been hard to come by with the Pandemic.

The Skunklock seems easily defeated with a plastics bag. Ziilock is using Bluetooth. I doubt it’ll ever have the 100 M range unless you’re outside. Every wall cuts down the range of Bluetooth. Ziilock alerts would be useless at a movie theatre or a Walmart.

sdowen

It’s very bizarre the makes of Skunklock decided to not make a mounting bracket for their lock.

veganbikes

ABUS is still shipping during the crisis, I just placed another 15 Keyed Alike orders Thursday and received a few late last week. Highway Two their U.S. distributor is still open and serving shops and has those locks available. QBP which is another major distributor too many many many shops also has 50+ of the 540 4X9" in stock and stock of the shorter and longer version as well. The only ABUS locks they are out of completely in all sizes are the 770A Smart Locks, the Brooklyn Chain (which uses a cheaper padlock I would replace) and the wall anchor. I also have a brand new one in package that I have yet to use that I am willing to sell. Even Billionaire Jeff Bezos, has them in stock on his website and he is always hurting for money (they said without any hint of sarcasm what so ever)

It is tougher to get stuff these days but most of the bike industry is rallying together to keep everyone stocked and ready to go. We haven't slowed down in this crisis only gotten busier and busier at our shop.

sdowen

It’s harder is Canada where US shipments are being slowed. Only the shorter Abus lock has been easily available without paying over the top prices to get the 300 mm lock.

I did get a Foldy Lock for the 2nd lock. The quality of the Foldy lock is on par with the Abus 6000 folding lock.

I have the New York Standard. It’s heavier than I would like, it’s better than not having a high quality lock.

The Trek FX3 has 100 mm front and a 135 mm rear. I’m guessing I would have to cut down the Pitlocks with a hacksaw to get them to fit.

veganbikes

Ahhh you are in Canada home of Letterkenny and Trailer Park Boys can't complain about that two excellent shows, to be fair. I am unsure of the Canadian distribution other than QBP does exist in Canada.

The quality of the Foldy is probably not all that close. Looks maybe but internals probably not. Most companies have had issues with their folding locks being secure because they don't know what ABUS does and they haven't been able to figure it out. A Kryptonite rep for instance said their version are low security because you cannot make it high security and I said explain the 6500 from ABUS and he moved on quickly to talk about lights.

The problem is when you try to copy something you can only get so far unless you are a sleazy company that literally just rips off the entire design but in that case you would have to have worked at ABUS and seen their process and copied that exactly and you would be in legal trouble for that. Locks are more than just looks it is the tempering and hardening and quality of steel and the testing you do to ensure it will last. A lot of lock companies are there to get a sticker and so long as the lock barely eeks by for that sticker or rating from some independent testing they are happy, a lock should exceed those tests and should be made to even higher standards.

I don't think you need to cut down pitlocks though it is possible I haven't took an in depth look at them in a while because my needs changed and never ended up getting them.

blakcloud

You typically don't need to cut down the threaded portion of the Pitlock. Your spacing is 100/135 but the actual length of the skewer is longer to accommodate both sides of the dropout plus the length of the clamping mechanism on each side, hence the longer numbers you see. Just like a quick release, they aren't much different.

Glad to hear you bought a second lock. The Foldylock looks like it is new to the market and looks good enough. I have yet to see any credible information that suggests that the lock is inferior to its competitors so I will not make judgement on it. I did watch their video and it certainly looked impressive.

You are well prepared for decreasing the risk of your bike being stolen. As a fellow Canadian, I feel your pain in getting product and of course the crazy prices we pay.

sdowen

I’ve never gotten the premise of Kryptonite’s theft insurance. Most Expert bike thieves take the lock with them to prevent leaving fingerprints and evidence behind.

Foldylock comes from the Magnum Elextric Bike company. It’s commercial product from a bigger company vs one of these fly-by-night GoFundMe companies that often disappear within 2-5 years.

Urbanbiketech

Yup! That's right. Pitlock recommends 10mm for the locking mechanism. The skewer length numbers they provide all exclude that 10mm (eg, the 155mm skewer is actually 165mm, and 119 is actually 129mm, etc.)
There's no harm in cutting them; it's actually a pretty common thing. Pitlock offers caps to place on the end of the skewers, and with too much extra length sticking out it's impossible to put them on. Plus, a bunch of extra skewer isn't super aesthetically pleasing...

As a side note - Pitlock skewers are all threaded for 30mm. The 155mm skewer (actually 165mm) is threaded between 135 and 165mm. Pitlock offers non-standard sizes (and even a fully threaded 250mm skewer) to try and accommodate all bikes using quick release skewers. We offer them all for sale https://www.urbanbiketech.com/produc...-without-lock/

Cheers!

lazurm

Out of 60 attempts to cut the lock, ZERO have succeeded in stealing the bicycle. There are no known successful thefts of bicycles where the Skunklock was used.
How, in your opinion, can the Skunklock "fail easily"? The worst case would be a prying attempt where the lock is damaged, the bicycle is protected and the owner needs help in opening the lock. This hasn't happened yet, in all these years.

livedarklions

Lock Picking Lawyer could pick it really damn fast, and questions its legality:

Sorry, not interested in being the test case on booby trap laws.

tcs

Waiting for the video of that with bated breath.

lazurm

The LockPickingLawyer can pick most any locks quickly and almost every lock can be picked eventually. The great majority of bike thieves don't have the skill, knowledge, tools and/or experience to do what he does...by far. Statistically, almost all bicycle locks are opened by a force attack.
I can certainly understand your concern for being a test case and the related expense that's involved. Even if there wasn't one law suit as a result of this lock or where there were and the plaintiff lost all of the cases that concern is legitimate and understood.

veganbikes

I haven't seen any figures but yeah maybe nobody messed with it.
It is a lock with gas in it. Potential for leaking is there and as we saw with LPL it was easy to pick.

I don't go for gimmicky locks, if it doesn't fail, great stolen bikes suck but I want a lock with a proven track record from a company that has been focused on security for a loooooong time.

lazurm

Easy to pick for LPL as are many locks. But, what's true for the LPL isn't so true for the typical bike thief. The gas is completely surrounded by solid metal and in the years that it's been sold there have been no leaks, though a few had some tiny odor when new, probably some residual chemicals from manufacturing. I'd say no chance for a leak. I'm not sure what's "gimmicky" about this lock. Perhaps you meant unique? Note, there will soon be release a highly angle grinder resistant lock made from graphene. It's VERY difficult and time consuming to grind it and it can not be broken by the typical tools used. Is that "gimmicky" too, or just unique and new? If newness perturbs you you may stand to miss many excellent, but recent, inventions.
Fact is that all locks that have been around for a "looooooong" time can be easily defeated by an angle grinder. That's why there are companies inventing locks to fight that fact.

veganbikes

Ok so you work for them it sounds like.

No chance for leak? Did you work for Cherynobl as well?

Gimmicky as in they use gas filed as a ploy to buy the lock to think it is more secure. I am not perturbed by newness, I have an electric bike with a Bosch system with the Nyon Display and Rohloff E-14 and a road bike with Di2 and sell a lot of ABUS Smart Locks, yes I am a little luddite-ish in some ways but good technology I am all for. Graphene is great, I love my Vittoria tires with Graphene it provides excellent grip even in the wet.

Coating a lock in something to dull the blade or slow the blade or gum up the blade is not a bad thing

Yes any lock can be defeated but a good lock will take someone time and quick cutting with an angle grinder means not a good lock.

livedarklions

I ride around with my locks on the bike. If there's a crash, I'm really not crazy about having a high-pressure canister of a vomit inducing chemical on the bike. Also, if someone does cut it, what's it going to take to get the stench out of my bike and bags?

It's basic appeal is that we like the thought of the thief getting a comeuppance. It's a gimmick.

lazurm

The chemical is designed to be hard to take off of clothing and skin but easy to remove from metal. This information is on the Skunklock's website. But you're correct that, if you hadn't removed your bags while locking the bicycle (isn't it standard, though, to remove the bags as that is something that may be stolen, along with any contents inside?) and the gas landed on it, it will have to be cleaned.
The reason why I don't believe that this lock is a pure gimmick is that the data as to its effectiveness undermines that notion. Locks that are otherwise highly rated can be typically opened in less than a minute with an angle grinder. Angle grinders render all previous locks the real gimmick because their hardened steel thickness no longer matters, except for all the tools other than an angle grinder. The Skunklock was designed for cutter and angle grinders and has proven effective in that regard.
As to your concern during a crash, the lock is not a canister in that a bicycle crash does not generate the force needed to release the chemical.

lazurm

I'm retired and don't work for anyone. Unless you're being sarcastic you may need to be more aware of how your assumptions may lead you astray.
What is, now, gimmicky is the notion that a lock's thickness determines its effectiveness (except for the ALTOR SAF lock). The thickness of the hardened steel helps for everything but angle grinders, the exact tool that the Skunklock was designed to address, along with the other more typical tools used by a bicycle thief. Yet the ratings of these thick, hardened locks stay high and are purchased for use in large cities where there are numerous examples of their ineffectiveness when matched against an angle grinder. Compared to the history, so far, of the Skunklock the best locks are not to be trusted anymore.

One's decisions should, in an ideal world, be governed by data, not pure emotion. The data for the Skunklock, so far, is good enough so that one can start to include that lock as a viable choice to protect a bicycle from theft in many situations (not inside one's vehicle or home for example). When combined with an alarm and a series of Hexlox and, if possible, another lock it represents the best of all possibilities when it comes to today's bicycle theft security.

nel e nel

Most expert bike thieves wear gloves.

veganbikes

Well it just felt like the way you were talking about them was from a position at their company in some form. It still feels like that reading your post but congrats on your retirement if that is the case.

I am curious about the locks you are talking about that are somehow worse than a Skunklock that are properly made. Yes decisions should be governed by data and locks should be tested and rated which they are Sold Secure does a good job and then say ABUS goes above and beyond those tests to make the locks even better. Also I didn't say thickness was better just in case you are keeping score at home ; ) Material quality and manufacturing quality are some of the important things in regards to locks.

Certainly yes the website for Skunklock makes a great case that skunk lock is a great lock, it would be silly if they didn't. I mean any kickstarter program that doesn't list news outlets that may have mentioned them is bucking the norm for kickstarters. I like their blog to it feels like it was just lifted from someone else or written by an aggregator or something or maybe someone translating from overseas. It does give a nice level of humor which I appreciate in any good company. I haven't really seen any real world data on their lock and haven't' seen any in the wild but I am sure they are doing their work to make it all happen.

veganbikes

You forgot the part where it never leaks and cannot leak. There is no way a pressurized canister could leak, that never happens. He said "no chance for a leak" and on the actual official website they say that smell is natural, no leaking the smell just magically is outside of the product but it didn't leak.

nel e nel

Abus and Kryptonite are both easily cuttable with angle grinders. At the end of the day, locks don’t actually prevent a determined thief, it just makes it a less desirable target.