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Co-Motion Divide vs Americano

Old 11-04-15, 06:33 PM
  #26  
Chris Pringle
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Originally Posted by northerntier
Re the Rodriguez equivalent. I want: rohloff, gates, S&S, disk brakes (not BB7).

To get rohloff at Rod you have to start w/ the High-Roller Tour at $4800. Adding BB7, a shifter on the handlebars, and the gates drive is another $1000 (and I don't like BB7's, I want something else). Adding in couplers and a carrying case is another $1000. So you are looking at near $7000, vs $8000 for the Co-Motion. However, it's still not perfect: shifter position sucks, BB7's suck, it uses 26" wheels, etc.

Co-Motion is expensive, but you are getting a lot of bike. Rodriguez is nice as well, but not much cheaper. I also like the Salsa Fargo. It's much more affordable, has suspension, bigger tires, but isn't exactly what I want.
I agree that you'll most likely have to go custom to get all the things you want.

One great thing about working with R+E Cycles was flexibility on the build. They understand very well that people go to them because they have specific custom needs and/or need solutions. The options of fully-built models are just for those who are unsure of what they want or simply plan on upgrading later. Personally, I ordered most components from online stores and shipped directly to them for final assembly. If you do this, they'll make sure that everything you ordered fits and runs smoothly before shipping the entire bike to you.

About some of your desired specs:

* Rohloff - R+E has a lot of experience with them. They have built tenths of those over the years. In fact, it's my understanding that Todd B. (their Rohloff builder) trained at the actual Rohloff facilities in Germany.
* Gates - Yes. My frame is ready for Rohloff both Gates and chain drives. It even has a derailleur hanger in case you ever need to run a traditional derailleur drivetrain.
* S&S couplers - No problem at all. Perfect alignment on mine!
* Disc brakes - Yes. If you don't like BB7's or any other component, just place an order from any online shop and ship directly to R+E.
* 26" vs 29" wheels - The guys at R+E will happily modify the UTB geometry to fit 29" wheels. But as others have eloquently indicated, there are many great attributes to 26" wheels in regard to strength for off-road use and for ease of transportation with S&S case. You'll have the final word and the guys at R+E will comply.
* Shifter position - Just tell them exactly where you want it. This is easy for them to do.

I don't know about you... but I don't like to leave any money on the table. If I can save $1,000 bucks on very similar high quality builds, I'll take it!
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Old 11-04-15, 07:08 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN
One thing to ask the Co-Motion people when you talk to them is to ask how well your wheels will fit in an S&S sized case. The 26 inch wheels win in that regard.
And he said it was a very tight fit into the S&S case, the wheels were especially tight fit.
Yep, I've viewed a couple videos and it will no doubt be tight. Not sure that large (>2") tires will make it. Brian at Co-Motion says they will, so I'll just have to expect an hour to take down and another hour to build back up each time.

If you are not aware, Rohloff now makes a 36 spoke hub, in addition to the 32. Just mentioning it since I think that change is more recent. I built up my Nomad with 36.
Yes. 36 holes w/ no dish equals a strong wheel.
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Old 11-04-15, 07:27 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Chris Pringle
I agree that you'll most likely have to go custom to get all the things you want.

One great thing about working with R+E Cycles was flexibility on the build. They understand very well that people go to them because they have specific custom needs and/or need solutions. The options of fully-built models are just for those who are unsure of what they want or simply plan on upgrading later. Personally, I ordered most components from online stores and shipped directly to them for final assembly. If you do this, they'll make sure that everything you ordered fits and runs smoothly before shipping the entire bike to you.
That's a pretty nice process. One of the problems of going w/ a custom build is the inability to try them out. Co-Motion at least has dealers and they are actively trying to find some place on the east coast where they might have a bike similar to what I want. It appears Rodriguez is factory-only.

Well, it's true that I'd like to visit my aunt in Seattle at some point....
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Old 11-04-15, 10:38 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by northerntier
That's a pretty nice process. One of the problems of going w/ a custom build is the inability to try them out. Co-Motion at least has dealers and they are actively trying to find some place on the east coast where they might have a bike similar to what I want. It appears Rodriguez is factory-only.

Well, it's true that I'd like to visit my aunt in Seattle at some point....
Yeah, that's a great idea if you can make the trip. Visit auntie and take a tour of the R+E (Rodriguez) shop in Seattle. I've never been there, but hear it's fun to see.

You might wonder... "What? You've never been there?" An interesting aspect that has given R+E Cycles an edge over their competitors is their mastering of working with clients remotely covering fitting, aesthetics, special needs, components, etc. First, they have eliminated the middleman, so you get to work directly with them and save some money in the process. You are assigned an on-site project manager who works closely with you and the builder at their shop. This avoids misunderstandings or particular specs/needs that sometimes do not get communicated correctly or get omitted altogether when working with a dealer. Information flows quickly and unrestricted. Furthermore, the project manager will send you weekly updates with photos of your frame being built.

We have ordered two bicycles from them fully custom-made to our specs. The first bike was mine. They got everything right. A stem change (which they nicely included at no additional charge) was all it took, along with some minor tweaks (e.g., saddle positioning). About a year later we ordered another bike from them. My partner rode it for a couple of months and found the perfect fit by just raising the handlebar 1 cm. That's it! I don't know how they do it.

It sounds like you want to use your new custom bike for epic rides whether on road or off-road, something that might not be so easily achievable with your Thorn. That criteria was also important for me. To prove my point, over the last year I used my 26"-wheeled Rodriguez UTB for randonneuring. Fitting is of utmost importance given the long distances covered in a relatively short period as there are time limits. I completed a series of qualifying timed events called brevets. So this past August, I traveled to France for the acid test: the Paris-Brest-Paris. This is an epic 1,230 Km (764 mi.) ride that takes place once every four years. It must be completed under 90 hours. I am happy to report that my Rodríguez UTB heroically took me to the finish line with zero mechanical issues.

Last edited by Chris Pringle; 11-05-15 at 03:48 PM.
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Old 11-04-15, 10:53 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Chris Pringle
It sounds like you want to use your new custom bike for epic rides whether on road or off-road, something that might not be so easily achievable with your Thorn.
Indeed.

Originally Posted by Chris Pringle
So this past August, I traveled to France for the acid test: the Paris-Brest-Paris. This is an epic 1,230 Km (764 mi.) ride that takes place once every four years. It must be completed under 90 hours. I am happy to report that my Rodríguez UTB heroically took me to the finish line with zero mechanical issues.
That's a hard-core ride. I have a buddy who did it a couple years back. I measure myself by just how long I can hang with him on a ride, which is not usually very long. I tell myself that he's on a 15-lb carbon bike and I'm on my trusty LHT (which is true), but that probably only accounts for a small part of the difference in how strong we are.

You make a good case for Rodriguez. I don't see how to put together the bike that I want online, but it really doesn't hurt to give them a call. Thanks,

pete
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Old 11-05-15, 07:28 AM
  #31  
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If you start thinking custom, if you plan to go with disc brakes, having cantilever posts on the fork could come in handy if you ever want to put a small rack on the front.

Note in the photo that I have a Tubus Ergo front rack for pannier mounting and I also have a small platform rack. I do not put much on that small rack, but it is handy to have. In first photo, I just have an orange polartec vest strapped on, in the second photo a spare water bottle.

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Old 11-05-15, 10:00 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN
If you start thinking custom, if you plan to go with disc brakes, having cantilever posts on the fork could come in handy if you ever want to put a small rack on the front.
Yep. Need to have discs/fenders/rack co-exist, front and back. This is non-trivial. I read that Neil of CrazyGuy actually had Co-Motion add some custom braze-ons to make this easier. Hope I don't have to go that far.

I sometimes tour w/ panniers (front and back), sometimes w/ Bob. Need to support both.
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Old 11-05-15, 12:16 PM
  #33  
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I am curious if Co-Motion would add a dropout similar to a Troll/Ogre/ECR for a trailer? The 10x1 threaded frame option seems much better than on the axle I am told with all the tugging it can do on it.
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Old 11-05-15, 01:25 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Mr Pink57
I am curious if Co-Motion would add a dropout similar to a Troll/Ogre/ECR for a trailer? The 10x1 threaded frame option seems much better than on the axle I am told with all the tugging it can do on it.
I kind of doubt it. They seem pretty religious about their frames and geometries. I could understand that a horizontal might be useful for a single-speed or rohloff, how does it help w/ a trailer? I've always used custom Bob skewers w/ no issues.
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Old 11-05-15, 01:26 PM
  #35  
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So for those that are curious, I went ahead and put down a non-refundable deposit on bike that I've never seen. The reason why this is tenable is that I can reject the bike when it comes and get a different one. I will want something in the line of Divide/Rohloff, Divide, Americano Rohloff or Americano. If I don't like the Divide Rohloff I can reject it (the bike shop eats it) and order another from the shop; the deposit is applied to the new bike. I doubt I can reject twice. However, I *know* that I love the americano, so that's my fallback position: an americano w/ S&S. However, I can't imagine not wanting the divide (big fat tires!) w/ S&S, even if I decide against the rohloff. I'll post pictures when it arrives.



Two months from now I should get a peek at it...


pete
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Old 11-05-15, 03:33 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by northerntier
I kind of doubt it. They seem pretty religious about their frames and geometries. I could understand that a horizontal might be useful for a single-speed or rohloff, how does it help w/ a trailer? I've always used custom Bob skewers w/ no issues.

Not interested in the horizontal part of it just the larger mount above, the 10x1 for a trailer. I do actually have an Ogre but was just curious if they would do something like this. I hear some stories of dropouts being pulled off center from trailers and kid haulers. The sliding aspect is not really needed, it could use a standard rohloff dropout or whatever else.
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Old 11-05-15, 03:49 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by northerntier
So for those that are curious, I went ahead and put down a non-refundable deposit on bike that I've never seen. The reason why this is tenable is that I can reject the bike when it comes and get a different one. I will want something in the line of Divide/Rohloff, Divide, Americano Rohloff or Americano. If I don't like the Divide Rohloff I can reject it (the bike shop eats it) and order another from the shop; the deposit is applied to the new bike. I doubt I can reject twice. However, I *know* that I love the americano, so that's my fallback position: an americano w/ S&S. However, I can't imagine not wanting the divide (big fat tires!) w/ S&S, even if I decide against the rohloff. I'll post pictures when it arrives.



Two months from now I should get a peek at it...


pete
Congrats, Pete! I am sure you analyzed all your options thoroughly to reach a final decision. Looking forward to the pics of your dream bike some time early next year.
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Old 11-05-15, 03:54 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by northerntier
So for those that are curious, I went ahead and put down a non-refundable deposit on bike that I've never seen. ...
Congratulations.

You never mentioned if you are getting a dynohub on the front or not. I did not on my first touring bike, did not on my second one, but decided to get one for my Nomad. Not so much for lighting, but for having a USB charger. I build up my own wheels so for me the cost difference was the hub cost vs the cost of the regular hub I would have otherwise bought - plus the cost of a light/USB charger.
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Old 11-05-15, 08:09 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN
Congratulations.

You never mentioned if you are getting a dynohub on the front or not. I did not on my first touring bike, did not on my second one, but decided to get one for my Nomad. Not so much for lighting, but for having a USB charger. I build up my own wheels so for me the cost difference was the hub cost vs the cost of the regular hub I would have otherwise bought - plus the cost of a light/USB charger.
Yep. I took their spec system, "Sinewave Cycles Reactor USB top cap", which sounds like The Plug. I use a Luxos U on my LHT. The one concern I have, which I will raise when we finalize the order, is whether this makes pulling the bike apart via S&S more difficult. The problem is that the wire probably goes through the fork, and the fork needs to be removed.

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Old 11-05-15, 11:36 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN
If you start thinking custom, if you plan to go with disc brakes, having cantilever posts on the fork could come in handy if you ever want to put a small rack on the front.

Note in the photo that I have a Tubus Ergo front rack for pannier mounting and I also have a small platform rack. I do not put much on that small rack, but it is handy to have. In first photo, I just have an orange polartec vest strapped on, in the second photo a spare water bottle.
Great pic!
Nice looking bike (and scenery).
I utilise a setup close to yours with an Velo Orange Pass Hunter on the brake bosses and a Tubus Nova for pannier duty.
A much lighter setup than the racks I saw that had pannier and flat top platform like OMM or Surly Nice whilst handling as much luggage weight.

Is that your Sherpa?

Last edited by rifraf; 11-05-15 at 11:40 PM.
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Old 11-06-15, 11:23 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by rifraf
Great pic!
Nice looking bike (and scenery).
I utilise a setup close to yours with an Velo Orange Pass Hunter on the brake bosses and a Tubus Nova for pannier duty.
A much lighter setup than the racks I saw that had pannier and flat top platform like OMM or Surly Nice whilst handling as much luggage weight.

Is that your Sherpa?
Yup, the Sherpa. I used to use the Surly front rack, which weighs a ton. I like this setup more.
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Old 11-09-15, 11:21 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by northerntier
The one concern I have is whether this makes pulling the bike apart via S&S more difficult. The problem is that the wire probably goes through the fork, and the fork needs to be removed.
I'm quite curious about this too. I'd appreciate it if you could post here when you find out.
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Old 11-10-15, 06:52 PM
  #43  
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They now use a system called SineWave that supposedly has very durable snap-together contacts.
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Old 11-10-15, 06:57 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by GamblerGORD53
Ask Neil Gunton at CGOAB. He switched to the Divide.

I wouldn't get a stock bike of any sort and Certainly get a Rohloff. They can now have a snap on cog like SA.
Can you (or anyone) point to any discussion of a "snap-on" or "snap ring" cog w/ Rohloff? This would be convenient for tours...
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Old 11-10-15, 07:56 PM
  #45  
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Go to .... Thorncycles.co.uk The shop managers are watching posts every day. Not a lot of traffic on that site.
There are lots of posts about Rohloff in it's own section.

It is not officially available yet I think. It is just a different screw on cog holder with a splined cog + spring ring, that replaces the all in one screw on cog.

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Old 11-10-15, 09:07 PM
  #46  
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OR you could just read the news at Rohloff:

"A new sprocket adapter, the 'Rohloff Splined-Carrier', will become available as of 2016."

https://www.rohloff.de/en/news/news_i...015/index.html
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Old 11-11-15, 12:52 PM
  #47  
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Thank you!

Originally Posted by seeker333
OR you could just read the news at Rohloff:

"A new sprocket adapter, the 'Rohloff Splined-Carrier', will become available as of 2016."

Product News 2016 - Eurobike 2015: www.rohloff.de
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Old 08-19-22, 09:30 AM
  #48  
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Update?

Hey northerntier , did you end up going with the Divide? What do you think?
I've had an Americano in the past and am weighing the same decision.
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Old 08-19-22, 12:34 PM
  #49  
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FWIW I am rocking 40mm tires on the Divide. It is a heavy bike, best appreciated fully loaded. Option: get more brazeons on the fork
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