What Sort of Gearing Works Best for your Needs?
#201
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,098 Times
in
5,054 Posts
If I remember correctly, 21.7% is exactly the ratio where the time dilation effects become noticeable, and if your hip angle isn't exactly right, you'll end up with one leg older than the other.
Likes For livedarklions:
#202
Senior Member
OMG! I'm at, like 21.9%! My N = 1. My mileage is probably in the 15,000-20,000 range.
It is most definitely constructive to point out how many subjects have been included in any test. Anyone who thinks one person's experience is universal needs some more learning in the area of critical thinking.
I think there are numerous people who can pedal N miles in apparent comfort but find the same equipment and setup painful at 3N, or 1.5N, or probably at 1.1N miles. My Brooks Imperial is fine for 12 miles. At 13, my crotch is on the way to total numbness. I use a seat that's proven good (for me) up to 45 miles. I'm confident it'll be good for 50 miles, but I don't know what will happen if I go much above that.
It is most definitely constructive to point out how many subjects have been included in any test. Anyone who thinks one person's experience is universal needs some more learning in the area of critical thinking.
I think there are numerous people who can pedal N miles in apparent comfort but find the same equipment and setup painful at 3N, or 1.5N, or probably at 1.1N miles. My Brooks Imperial is fine for 12 miles. At 13, my crotch is on the way to total numbness. I use a seat that's proven good (for me) up to 45 miles. I'm confident it'll be good for 50 miles, but I don't know what will happen if I go much above that.
Likes For philbob57:
#203
Expired Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 11,526
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3661 Post(s)
Liked 5,408 Times
in
2,747 Posts
Branko D
From my own findings, which i have extensively detailed on this forum, something from 20.5% to 21.6%(max) seems to be a sweet spot, Its generally okay to go down a bit below 20.5%, but certainly not past 21.6%.
From my own findings, which i have extensively detailed on this forum, something from 20.5% to 21.6%(max) seems to be a sweet spot, Its generally okay to go down a bit below 20.5%, but certainly not past 21.6%.
Likes For shelbyfv:
#204
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,098 Times
in
5,054 Posts
"Seems" is the key. Your extensively detailed "findings" appear to be purely subjective, certainly no power measurement. Not to mention the extensively detailed string of ill fitting bikes. You might get less pushback if you backed up your opinions with actual power measurements or at least some comparison rides of significant distance.
My findings indicate that the ideal mid-ride meal is hot wieners in Rhode Island. It seems to hit some sort of sweet spot.
#205
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Paradise, TX
Posts: 2,087
Bikes: Soma Pescadero, Surly Pugsley, Salsa Fargo, Schwinn Klunker, Gravity SS 27.5, Monocog 29er
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 186 Post(s)
Liked 234 Times
in
166 Posts
50 or 55 gear inches for singletrack trails. Our roughest is a little over 1k feet per 12 mile loop.
75 gear inches on the road. No mountains, just rolling hills, sometimes endless headwinds.
When I rode with group rides, I used 46/15 on my fixed gear. Gave me a comfortable 25mph cruising speed.
75 gear inches on the road. No mountains, just rolling hills, sometimes endless headwinds.
When I rode with group rides, I used 46/15 on my fixed gear. Gave me a comfortable 25mph cruising speed.
Last edited by c_m_shooter; 10-21-21 at 03:00 PM.
#206
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,232
Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18409 Post(s)
Liked 15,525 Times
in
7,325 Posts
#207
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mississauga/Toronto, Ontario canada
Posts: 8,721
Bikes: I have 3 singlespeed/fixed gear bikes
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4227 Post(s)
Liked 2,488 Times
in
1,286 Posts
Branko D
From my own findings, which i have extensively detailed on this forum, something from 20.5% to 21.6%(max) seems to be a sweet spot, Its generally okay to go down a bit below 20.5%, but certainly not past 21.6%.
From my own findings, which i have extensively detailed on this forum, something from 20.5% to 21.6%(max) seems to be a sweet spot, Its generally okay to go down a bit below 20.5%, but certainly not past 21.6%.
Likes For wolfchild:
#208
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,098 Times
in
5,054 Posts
No, the sweetness is provided by the coffee milk. For some reason, the good wieners are all labeled as being "The New York System". I like riding in RI. Lots of interesting local foods.
Likes For livedarklions:
#209
Cheerfully low end
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 1,976
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 645 Post(s)
Liked 1,044 Times
in
667 Posts
"Seems" is the key. Your extensively detailed "findings" appear to be purely subjective, certainly no power measurement. Not to mention the extensively detailed string of ill fitting bikes. You might get less pushback if you backed up your opinions with actual power measurements or at least some comparison rides of significant distance.
“Too long cranks cause excessive knee flex, and can cause pain/injury if it causes your knee to flex more than it is used to.
I learned this the hard way when I bought a used mountain bike that came with 180 mm cranks. I found that it made my knees hurt every time I rode it.
On the other hand, there doesn't seem to be any deleterious effect from shorter cranks.”
I had a similar experience: over a long stretch of time, I’m more comfortable with 170 mm cranks than longer cranks. Longer MTB cranks eventually make my knees hurt. YMMV.
Otto
Last edited by ofajen; 10-21-21 at 06:12 PM.
Likes For ofajen:
#210
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,232
Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18409 Post(s)
Liked 15,525 Times
in
7,325 Posts
#211
Drip, Drip.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Southern Ontario
Posts: 1,575
Bikes: Trek Verve E bike, Felt Doctrine 4 XC, Opus Horizon Apex 1
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1034 Post(s)
Liked 193 Times
in
163 Posts
I'll offer this--I suspect people vary enough in the proportions of their leg bones and hip bones that the idea that there's a universal ideal ratio seems pretty far-fetched.
I don't doubt that ratio works well for you, I just don't see how anyone could accept that as a generalizable finding.
I don't doubt that ratio works well for you, I just don't see how anyone could accept that as a generalizable finding.
I do believe, that industry standard crank sizes is more of a cost cutting procedure, and that if it wasn't such a big deal, different sizes wouldn't even exist.
My "range" which I've suggested wasn't specifically what I found works for me. It's a range I can safely suggest as a solid starting point for 99% of people, after trying everything from 19.5 to just over 21.7% with thousands of kilometers of all sorts of riding in between.
whether you guys want to experiment for yourself, and whether there is actually any use in doing so is
A. Not entirely my concern
B. Totally up to you, including whether it is important or not.
#212
Drip, Drip.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Southern Ontario
Posts: 1,575
Bikes: Trek Verve E bike, Felt Doctrine 4 XC, Opus Horizon Apex 1
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1034 Post(s)
Liked 193 Times
in
163 Posts
How would you guys change your gears according to wheel sizes?
Eg. The giant talon uses a larger chainring for the 29" wheel version versus the 27.5"
I was thinking that, a larger wheel = more gear inches, meaning a gear down could be helpful to compensate?
Has anyone on here setup a single speed bike with less aggressive gearing, such as for touring or hill climbing?
Eg. The giant talon uses a larger chainring for the 29" wheel version versus the 27.5"
I was thinking that, a larger wheel = more gear inches, meaning a gear down could be helpful to compensate?
Has anyone on here setup a single speed bike with less aggressive gearing, such as for touring or hill climbing?
#213
Drip, Drip.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Southern Ontario
Posts: 1,575
Bikes: Trek Verve E bike, Felt Doctrine 4 XC, Opus Horizon Apex 1
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1034 Post(s)
Liked 193 Times
in
163 Posts
My current XC bike uses 29x2.35 wheels, 185mm crank arms, 26/36 and 11-42.
I find the 11t cog to be useless like on most other bikes, unless the front chainring is seriously undergeared for the riding you are doing. Maybe a 26/38 or 28/38 with a 13/42 cassette (if that even existed) would work better.
I find the 11t cog to be useless like on most other bikes, unless the front chainring is seriously undergeared for the riding you are doing. Maybe a 26/38 or 28/38 with a 13/42 cassette (if that even existed) would work better.
#214
Advanced Slacker
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,210
Bikes: Soma Fog Cutter, Surly Wednesday, Canfielld Tilt
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2762 Post(s)
Liked 2,537 Times
in
1,433 Posts
7x9
#215
Obsessed with Eddington
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Brussels (BE) 🇧🇪
Posts: 1,330
Bikes: '16 Spesh Diverge, '14 Spesh Fatboy, '18 Spesh Epic, '18 Spesh SL6, '21 Spesh SL7, '21 Spesh Diverge...and maybe n+1?
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 532 Post(s)
Liked 621 Times
in
368 Posts
#216
Obsessed with Eddington
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Brussels (BE) 🇧🇪
Posts: 1,330
Bikes: '16 Spesh Diverge, '14 Spesh Fatboy, '18 Spesh Epic, '18 Spesh SL6, '21 Spesh SL7, '21 Spesh Diverge...and maybe n+1?
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 532 Post(s)
Liked 621 Times
in
368 Posts
#217
cycles per second
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,930
Bikes: Early 1980's Ishiwata 022 steel sport/touring, 1986 Vitus 979, 1988 DiamondBack Apex, 1997 Softride PowerWing 700, 2001 Trek OCLV 110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked 71 Times
in
48 Posts
And the thread diverges...
My gearing preferences for my home terrain (flat to gently rolling with some short, steep every now and then) and my riding style:
My gearing preferences for my home terrain (flat to gently rolling with some short, steep every now and then) and my riding style:
- Roadie (700x23): 53x42 with a 13-26 6-sp freewheel (3.4m to 8.6m). Can't go smaller than 13t on the freewheel so won't go smaller than a 53 big ring. Can normally get up everything I ride with the 42/22 but keep the 42/26 as a bail-out when I'm fatigued and riding up the hill into a headwind. I think I've used it twice this year.
- Commuting (700x25): 44x34 with a 12-21 7-sp freewheel (3.4m to 7.8m).
- Touring (700x28): 44x29 with 11-28 7-sp cassette (2.2m to 8.5m). Rode this on a three week loaded tour from Munich to Barcelona in the Alps and the Pyrenees.
- MTB (559x54): 44x32x22 with 12-34 6-sp cassette (1.3m to 7.6m).
Last edited by Gonzo Bob; 10-22-21 at 02:06 AM.
Likes For Gonzo Bob:
#218
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,098 Times
in
5,054 Posts
Addendum: I joined a recreational cycling club this year and on multiple occasions have had other club members question my gearing (i.e. they don't think it's low enough). The weirdest thing is that it has happened on routes that were almost dead flat! I think the recent trend toward huge road cassettes (like 11-32 or 11-34) has warped some people's perception of what's needed. My old road rear derailers are only rated to 28t so I can't even run those new fangled road cassettes wiith huge pie plates anyway.
As I was muscling my bike up a slight road incline a couple weeks ago on the 53 ring, some guy on a gravel bike who was on an intersecting rail trail said something to me about using too high a gear. I think it's hilarious that people are so anxious to "correct" other people's habits that they don't consider that the person they're talking to likely knows more about what works best for their particular engine than anyone else. Unless someone is clearly struggling or asking for advice, I don't think people should expect polite responses to such condescension. I ignored the guy and just rode off fast. Maybe you should just tell the fellow club members "funny, I was just going to tell you that you're riding in too low of a gear." It's a relatively benign way of making the point that such opinions are silly.
I've pretty much resigned myself to having to buy older bikes as the trend towards compacts and, even worse 1x, is cutting out high gears I like to use to put on lower gears I'll likely never use. I use the 28 on the rear rarely, but I never have thought while I was on it that I wished for anything bigger.
Likes For livedarklions:
#219
Obsessed with Eddington
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Brussels (BE) 🇧🇪
Posts: 1,330
Bikes: '16 Spesh Diverge, '14 Spesh Fatboy, '18 Spesh Epic, '18 Spesh SL6, '21 Spesh SL7, '21 Spesh Diverge...and maybe n+1?
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 532 Post(s)
Liked 621 Times
in
368 Posts
Yeah, I feel this...when someone starts asking how to get their bike geared below 20gi so they can ride up 15% gravel, my first thought is, have you tried a better motor or better route planning?
#220
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,098 Times
in
5,054 Posts
I do so little gravel riding that I wouldn't know what gear I'd use for a 15% gravel grade.
But <20 gi? Is that even possible?
#221
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,232
Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18409 Post(s)
Liked 15,525 Times
in
7,325 Posts
#222
Cheerfully low end
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 1,976
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 645 Post(s)
Liked 1,044 Times
in
667 Posts
How would you guys change your gears according to wheel sizes?
Eg. The giant talon uses a larger chainring for the 29" wheel version versus the 27.5"
I was thinking that, a larger wheel = more gear inches, meaning a gear down could be helpful to compensate?
Has anyone on here setup a single speed bike with less aggressive gearing, such as for touring or hill climbing?
Eg. The giant talon uses a larger chainring for the 29" wheel version versus the 27.5"
I was thinking that, a larger wheel = more gear inches, meaning a gear down could be helpful to compensate?
Has anyone on here setup a single speed bike with less aggressive gearing, such as for touring or hill climbing?
Thus, a bigger wheel might want a smaller gear ratio in the same proportion. If you keep the rear cogs the same, a larger wheel should want a smaller chainring, other things being equal.
That said, other things may not be equal. You asked about SS. As I mentioned, I have 64 gi on the SS MTB and about 67 gi on the SS road bike.
The road bike I usually use when trails are dry and easy to traverse.
The MTB has a heavier, stronger frame and heavier tires and I ride it more in messy conditions on muddy, sticky trails in cold months when the leaves are down and the trails are not sheltered from the wind.
All that to say it works better to have a slightly lower gear on the MTB.
Otto
Likes For ofajen:
#223
Obsessed with Eddington
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Brussels (BE) 🇧🇪
Posts: 1,330
Bikes: '16 Spesh Diverge, '14 Spesh Fatboy, '18 Spesh Epic, '18 Spesh SL6, '21 Spesh SL7, '21 Spesh Diverge...and maybe n+1?
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 532 Post(s)
Liked 621 Times
in
368 Posts
Using modern components, it is achievable by mixing and matching road and MTB parts, sometimes using adapters and such...some folks claim it is just fine, but when you hear what they go through to make it work and how far they are past the ragged edge of component specs (like RDs), it's not something I'm interested in considering the use cases and how far I'd be walking if it fails me.
#224
Obsessed with Eddington
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Brussels (BE) 🇧🇪
Posts: 1,330
Bikes: '16 Spesh Diverge, '14 Spesh Fatboy, '18 Spesh Epic, '18 Spesh SL6, '21 Spesh SL7, '21 Spesh Diverge...and maybe n+1?
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 532 Post(s)
Liked 621 Times
in
368 Posts
I'd say could as opposed to would. For example, comparing a 10-42 cassette driven by a 46t chainring, the difference in gi between a 650b x 2.1in to a 700c x 38mm is minimal, so much so that any gear change would introduce more difference than just leaving it alone.
#225
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,098 Times
in
5,054 Posts