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New to Moisture - XL KHS Flite 720

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Road Cycling It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle. -- Ernest Hemingway

New to Moisture - XL KHS Flite 720

Old 11-27-21, 09:59 PM
  #51  
Moisture
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I can ride the bike for up to an hour or so before starting to favour the flats.

A top tube length of 600mm (reach probably about 400-410mm..?) , 110mm stem, low stack (about 620mm to top of the headset cup) and bars with a drop 125mm and reach 80mm is a very aggressive riding position for me.

Im still playing around with different stems and handlebar stacks to find what works for me.. im sort of torn between the ideal stack versus reach right now.

the current reach is aggressive even at a stack which is already too high to make the most out of a race frame.

I've adjusted the bars so that they are almost parallel with the ground and brought the hoods a little lower. Feels better in the hoods, but a little awkward on the wrists in the drops? I'm planning to try a 46cm bar which should hopefully address ergonomics in the drops.

A break every 20 min would be nice, but its not necessary. I can totally handle such a position handling wise, even as I fatigue. Real long distance comfort just isn't a priority for me with such a bike?

If it was, id ultimately need to change the reach and stack in such a way which doesn't make the most of the frames handling attributes. Talking about rides which last longer than an hour at a time.

I bought a 175mm crankset with 36/46 rings to try on this bike. 36 is a nice useful ring which will stop me from always being in the largest cogs on the rear cassette, while the jump to 46t is usable and always me to actually use the smaller cassette cogs plus spin faster on most hills ill encounter. Im impressed with how well I can push 53t on this beast of a road bike, but I just don't have descents long enough for that gear to make sense, nor do I want to go that fast.
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Old 11-28-21, 07:46 AM
  #52  
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You might try something like this with a slight flare to the drops. I've found the flare allows for a more natural and comfortable wrist position. https://www.jensonusa.com/Ritchey-Co...Drop-Handlebar

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Old 11-28-21, 01:02 PM
  #53  
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shelbyfv thats a great bar and would work well. I'm looking for something with a 10mm less reach and drop. Stock is 125mm, 80mm.
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Old 11-28-21, 02:19 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Moisture View Post
shelbyfv thats a great bar and would work well. I'm looking for something with a 10mm less reach and drop. Stock is 125mm, 80mm.
The bar that shelbyfv linked has 7mm less reach and drop. You should look at a ruler to see what 3mm looks like.

But whatever. Your bike already fits so poorly that I don't think 10mm will make much difference, much less 3mm.

Last edited by Koyote; 11-28-21 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 11-28-21, 04:26 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
The bar that shelbyfv linked has 7mm less reach and drop. You should look at a ruler to see what 3mm looks like.

But whatever. Your bike already fits so poorly that I don't think 10mm will make much difference, much less 3mm.
Your commentary fits so poorly into this entire forum,
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Old 11-28-21, 05:53 PM
  #56  
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10mm less reach and drop assuming I stick to the stock 110mm stem. Or can just go with 100mm. Id like to try a 0 stem.

An endurance race bike such as a Jamis Xenith Endura has a reach and stack that's 10mm less, extra 40mm stack, and the bars i believe are about 7mm shorter in drop and reach. These differences would all amount to a riding position that is far more comfortable when riding for longer than 40 minutes at a time.

600mm for the top tube is on the longer side for an XL bike, but not anything absurdly long or aggressive for someone my size. A size 61 is normal for my height.

The bottom bracket on this bike is so low i get pedal strikes with 175mm crank arms. I dont notice any deficit in power unless I am pushing hard on the cranks from a low cadence, which puts extra stress on my knees. Otherwise, not much difference between this and the longer custom cranks I've tried on my other bikes when you're already spinning at your ideal cadence.
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Old 11-28-21, 06:23 PM
  #57  
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The good ol' throw-a-bunch-o-****-against-the-wall-and-see-what-sticks approach to fitting *and* gearing? Awesome.
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Old 11-28-21, 11:42 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Moisture View Post
The bottom bracket on this bike is so low i get pedal strikes with 175mm crank arms.
nope
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Old 11-29-21, 10:37 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
The good ol' throw-a-bunch-o-****-against-the-wall-and-see-what-sticks approach to fitting *and* gearing? Awesome.
In my mind, I was trying to calculate how many possible combinations he has available to him; all those different stem lengths and stack heights and bars and chainring diameters and crankarm lengths. Must be about a billion different combinations!
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Old 11-29-21, 01:20 PM
  #60  
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I've never considered adding anyone to my ignore list, until now. But the comedy is gold, so I won't.
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Old 11-29-21, 06:50 PM
  #61  
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110mm +10
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Old 11-30-21, 08:01 AM
  #62  
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Great, you are proud of your new bike and want to show it off with a bunch of pictures without any context. But this isn't about how it looks, it's how it fits you. You are worried about how a lot of spacers looks and the angle of your stem, but you can't ride without stopping to stretch your back out after 30 minutes? Hard to tell from your pictures, but your saddle appears to have a downward tilt - that will surely put excessive pressure on your hands while you ride.

That's not normal (having to stretch/back discomfort after a short time), bottom line your bike does not fit you properly. Either you are locking into a single hand position when you ride (not good), or your fit is so far off that you can't get a good variety of positions to keep your back from locking up. Comfort/biomechanics, not appearance (and what others on the internet think) should be your primary concern.
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Old 11-30-21, 08:43 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by mprince View Post
Great, you are proud of your new bike and want to show it off with a bunch of pictures without any context. But this isn't about how it looks, it's how it fits you. You are worried about how a lot of spacers looks and the angle of your stem, but you can't ride without stopping to stretch your back out after 30 minutes? Hard to tell from your pictures, but your saddle appears to have a downward tilt - that will surely put excessive pressure on your hands while you ride.

That's not normal (having to stretch/back discomfort after a short time), bottom line your bike does not fit you properly. Either you are locking into a single hand position when you ride (not good), or your fit is so far off that you can't get a good variety of positions to keep your back from locking up. Comfort/biomechanics, not appearance (and what others on the internet think) should be your primary concern.
If you're at all familiar with Moisty, you'll know that you're pissing into the wind.
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Old 11-30-21, 08:55 AM
  #64  
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mprince i angled the saddle this way because it helps me get comfortable with the handlebar drop. I haven't thought about that. As long as I get the reach a closer and the drop slightly lower, I think it'll fit me a lot better. Currently it's not a bad fit but only effective for up to an hour of non stop riding like I was saying.

The stem seen in the latest pics is 110 +10. It's bent. Changing it to 90 -7 at a higher stack for next time the weather permits a ride. I'll be sure to re adjust the saddle angle and try again - thanks for the suggestion.
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Old 11-30-21, 09:49 AM
  #65  
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Hey @Moisture,

I have no comment about bars or stem angle or crank length, but let me give you a HUGE congrats on the new bike. And the progress you have made in this cycling activity/sport/hobby.

i also congratulate you on sticking with BF. The acerbic replies are uncalled for.

it is for people like you - who genuinely progress thru the ‘learning curve of cycling’ - that this Forum makes it’s greatest contribution.

Unless I’ve missed some of your posts, I would like to see more pics of where you ride. But I can wait til after Winter.






Clear your handlebars and your mind will follow….
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Old 11-30-21, 10:01 AM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by Wildwood View Post
Hey @Moisture,

I have no comment about bars or stem angle or crank length, but let me give you a HUGE congrats on the new bike. And the progress you have made in this cycling activity/sport/hobby.

i also congratulate you on sticking with BF. The acerbic replies are uncalled for.

it is for people like you - who genuinely progress thru the ‘learning curve of cycling’ - that this Forum makes it’s greatest contribution.

Unless I’ve missed some of your posts, I would like to see more pics of where you ride. But I can wait til after Winter.






Clear your handlebars and your mind will follow….
Thank you so much man! I really appreciate the kind words.

I actually began cycling for real (without training wheels..) when I was 6 or 7 on crappy supercycles, cheap releighs (I even remember which models, supercycle vice and raleigh toro, although there were many more as they would get stolen...), I cycled quite a lot even as a child, all day long, every day through the entire summer, to school and back, etc. I continued cycling on a regular basis until 15 or 16 and took some time off until last spring (at 22 years old) when i got a northrock xc27 costco mountain bike about 4 sizes too small for me. Since that point (march, 2020, i have ridden more than 10,000km.) I bought the GT in august of 2020 and joined bike forums shortly afterwards.

I have learned so much from these forums, so I don't take offence to the rude comments. I'm not always entirely sure why I get so much hate on all the forums i've ever joined, but I don't let that stop me as long as there is something to learn and a passion to be following.

I lived in Thornhill, Ontario up until the end of october before moving to rural Penetanguishene. Feel free to check it out on maps if you are interested, but I will be sure to get you some pictures during/after winter! I specifically ride at the SCMBC trail-head. If you take a look at the mid-pen link, that is a short but very scary paved section in the forest with some dramatically steep drops and sharp turns. I bought my road bike shortly after discovering the link trail, although I was planning to get back into drop bars for a while before this.

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Old 11-30-21, 10:59 AM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by Wildwood View Post
The acerbic replies are uncalled for.

Unless Ive missed some of your posts...
It appears you have to have missed a lot of posts. From the first thread he started, the claims of expertise with regard to geometry and fit were aggressive and wrong. The glaringly incorrect and at times dangerous advice given to other new posters was(and still is) a disservice.
New posters successfully ask questions and receive assistance all the time without snark from others. When that doesnt happen, an evaluation of why could help explain things.
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Old 11-30-21, 11:34 AM
  #68  
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[QUOTE=mstateglfr;22324548]It appears you have to have missed a lot of posts.]

Yes, I miss a lot of posts (purposefully).
And data with false conclusions is published by The Bicycle Industry every week.
X% laterally stiffer, Y% more vertically compliant and Z watts more aero!










tolerance is a virtue.

knowledge can be a trial and error process.

civility is under rated

people learn best in a positive environment





When I invented the Internet it was supposed to be a 100% uplifting experience of human interactions. What happened?
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Old 11-30-21, 11:48 AM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by Wildwood View Post
people learn best in a positive environment
You say that as if he wasn't given that opportunity... repeatedly.
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Old 11-30-21, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Moisture View Post
I have learned so much from these forums, so I don't take offence to the rude comments. I'm not always entirely sure why I get so much hate on all the forums i've ever joined, but I don't let that stop me as long as there is something to learn and a passion to be following.
I don't think people hate you around here; I certainly do not. But the passage in bold is an opportunity for introspection and self-discovery.
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Old 11-30-21, 12:52 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by Badger6 View Post
Dude, stop talking for like 10 minutes, and listen.

BUY A DAMN THAT FITS YOU!
Here we go. Do explain what you suggest thats "fits you"
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Old 11-30-21, 12:53 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
It appears you have to have missed a lot of posts. From the first thread he started, the claims of expertise with regard to geometry and fit were aggressive and wrong. The glaringly incorrect and at times dangerous advice given to other new posters was(and still is) a disservice.
New posters successfully ask questions and receive assistance all the time without snark from others. When that doesnt happen, an evaluation of why could help explain things.
Thats enough, let's just keep it positive and keep this place civil. That's all in the past and has been picked out of me many times.
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Old 11-30-21, 01:02 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by Moisture View Post
Here we go. Do explain what you suggest thats "fits you"
Sorry, deleted original to repost, BIKE! GET A DAMN BIKE THAT FITS!

I don't know. But something that is sized appropriately. You seem to be always talking about cranks and stems, and ignoring that the problem may be the frame geometry itself.

Example, I am 5'8" tall, 173cm. In general (not always), I am either at the top end of a 52cm frame or bottom end of 54cm frame on a road/gravel bike. But, long ago, based on many, many bikes, I know my general range for stack/reach of the frame and based on experience can tell if I should go smaller or larger. Either way, I know about where I need to be as a starting point.

You, on the other hand keep posting about bikes that seem to be all over the place on stack/reach on the frame (at least they seem to be based descriptions and such), and then alternately look for advice or congratulation on your choice of crank or stem. Then when you get advice, you want to argue. Normally, I'd just say STFU and leave me alone. But, I love riding bikes and want everyone else to love riding them, also. So I won't. But, dude, you really need to stop arguing, and start listening, like actually listening. Your choice of gears is irrelevant if the bike doesn't fit. Your argumentation about stem angles and lengths is stupid if the frame doesn't fit.

Figure out what fits you (there's lots of resources to get this baseline) and then adjust from there.
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Old 11-30-21, 01:03 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by Moisture View Post
Thats enough, let's just keep it positive...
You have a hand in this.
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Old 11-30-21, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Moisture View Post
I'm not always entirely sure why I get so much hate on all the forums i've ever joined,
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