seypat

The main issue is that bandits want to be part of the event. Let me say that again. They want to be part of the event, but don't want to pay to be part of that event. All prospective bandits have 364 other days in the year to ride the same route supported, non supported, with clown masks on, or not, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah. But if they do that, they won't be part of the event. You pay to be part of the event. Simple as that.
One suggestion you can try. Talk to the organizers and see if they do any other events you can work/volunteer at in exchange for entry into the event you want to do. Maybe you can work something out. There are some of those in my area.

LAJ

Good call

seypat

There's some running jokes between my wife and I about fitness "events." We have a fictitious team/club name that we joke about when we do fitness events. It's usually obnoxious and changes every year or so to keep the joke fresh. If we're at the inlaws for a holiday weekend and have a training run/ride we have to do, we come up with a long, stupid name and it becomes a "race." Then we go out, tow the line and do our run. For instance, we'll probably be at the inlaws Easter weekend. We'll probably do a 10K training run. But instead of being just a training run, it'll become something like:

The Peter Cottontail Hopping Down The Bunny Trail Laying Easter Eggs Spectacular 10K.

If I take a bike and go for a ride, it won't just be any bike ride. It will be the name above with the ride distance (50 miler, whatever) instead of the run distance. You do what you can to make it motivational and fun.

seypat

As to my previous post relating to this thread, the OP and Mr. Sellerz could ride the route on a different day and call their ride something like:

I Wanted to Ride The (event name) But Didn't Want To Pay So I Rode It The Next Day Century. (Or whatever the distance is)

That's way better than trying to bandit the actual event.

downhillmaster

So cool.
I do the same thing with some of my replies.
This one is:
The Different Strokes for Odd Folks, But I Would Punch Myself in the Face Before I Would Name a Training Ride reply

Troul 

if you come across a team that has an adult website's url name (hub) chances are, it'll be me.

Always make every event a hard accomplishment.

Bulette

Of multiple resources I have read, now, BikeForums appears to be the most strict towards "no pay, no play". Of course, this is very black and white, and leaves little room for nuance (my world is varying shades of grey).

The commenters at RBR kept it on topic for nearly 150 posts, a feat I've yet to see here on BF, and while polarized, there are defenders of both the black and the white:
https://www.roadbikereview.com/threa...d-ride.319093/

The Weight Weenies are the most concise, but 100% on topic (as if you'd expect any less from literal bean counters).
https://weightweenies.starbike.com/f...881cfd5d1a2ae1

Some questions that might illuminate the 'grey areas':

1. What if the organized route uses public roads which are too dangerous (but not illegal) to ride on any other day**?

2. For those who claim that "just tagging along, incidentally" is acceptable: where's the line? Is it okay to ride 50% of the course, how about 80%?

3. Some have suggested "bouncing" unregistered riders... while not impossible, it seems like a drastic waste of resources. Is this a good use of registered riders' fees? I.E. Should your reg-fee, the local LEO and the SAG wagon be concerned with unregistered riders, or is it best to 'give them a pass'?

** This is a major point for me, personally. Some organized rides make use of highways that are otherwise too dangerous to ride (even with an experienced club). We (Cyclists) have every right to ride these roads, but we don't out of fear of our safety. In this case, an organized ride may offer a limited opportunity to ride that route.

I haven't had the chance yet, since starting on these ruminations, to air this discussion with some real world friends -- but perhaps I'll have more to say after a few club rides.

indyfabz

1. Then you are most certainly taking advantage of a condition the ride organizers have created through their efforts. Pay or say away.

2. To me, "incidentally" means by chance, not by design. I see nothing wrong with the former if it truly happens incidentally. As noted above, I have found myself in that situation more than once.

LarrySellerz

People who say you will get bounced are delusional. Don't take their stuff and nobody will care

WhyFi

#1 - isn't terribly gray and it only reinforces a value being provided that you'd be stealing.
#2 - Starting threads on multiple forums doesn't really point towards incidental, now does it?
#3 - you didn't provide them with their resources and now you want to justify your actions based upon what you think is a reasonable use of their resources? GTFO.

Bulette

I didn't start those threads. I provided them as evidence of my reading (and for your reading as well). Secondly, assuming that my thought-experiment reflects on my behavior or choices in real life is a poor assumption to make.

shelbyfv

Yep, you would be making use of safety conditions created by the ride organizers, undoubtedly at significant cost. There really isn't much "gray" in this particular subject but plenty of opportunity for justification by those who don't have a good grasp of ethical behavior. Some situations can be "gray." Others are "black and white." A handy maxim- if it has a price tag, don't take it w/o paying.

locolobo13 

I stay away from organized rides if possible. I don't always find the announcement. Several times I've come on events, bicycle, walking, running at Tempe Town Lake without warning. In one case I literally found myself riding against the flow of a marathon. The course wasn't closed so nobody was yelling.. But give me some warning and I will ride around the event.

But one of my grumbles is Tempe Town Lake is a nexus of MUPs here in the valley. Joining east to west, south to north. It is a good, convenient place to change directions or pass thru.

A lot of these events don't show up if you go to Tempe town Lake Events. You need to specifically search for bike, walk, running events.. Even then..

If I see your event before I'm in it I'll grumble, find a rest stop, and figure out another ride.. Maybe. Just my 2 cents.

shelbyfv

So you didn't really need advice, you were just trolling? That's sad....

WhyFi

Starting one thread crosses that threshold, too, bucko.

Give me a break - that you need to go through this "thought experiment" at all, looking for gray areas or cracks where you can wedge "what ifs," reflects upon your character.

70sSanO

I think one aspect to this is that many organized rides have registration limits to the number of riders who can participate.

If the limit is 3000 riders, and registration is closed, it is easy for someone to say, “Hey I’m only one more bike.”

But what happens if 100 people poach, or 1,000 people?

What number of self centered riders does it take to ruin the future of the event for those who have paid to participate?

There will always be those who take and never give.

John

Rolla

If it's only safe because of the organized ride, then you owe the organized ride for the use of the resources they used to secure it.

The distance is immaterial; it's about intentions. Truly coincidentally coming upon a ride in progress that coincides with your already-planned route is not the same as consciously deciding to tag along on an organized ride, regardless of the distance ridden on the course.

Nah. You don't have to catch everyone in order to dissuade others. Bounce four or five poachers and people will get the message.

This question sounds more like wishful thinking: "Maybe if I convince people that enforcement is too expensive, no one will do it and I can get away with poaching rides."

shelbyfv

I can think of a number of ways to help a poacher see the light!

Troul 

I wouldn't expect an organization to enact a search & seizure for unaccounted participants, but I would expect that if they come across someone that has not paid or someone that has caused an unwanted event (crash, theft, domestic dispute) to be handled accordingly. With the vast ways to distinguish proper attendees from those that are not part of the group, it should help reduce bandits & discourage those that entertain the idea of it. Of course their will be those that are determined, but that goes with just about anything.

If the corrupt people become too big of a deal, I wouldn't expect the event to happen for much longer. At some point, it will be easier to stop the whole shindig entirely than to battle the selfishness of others.

CAT7RDR

A Moral Relativist can justify anything given enough time and space.

seypat

Here's an important question.

If a poacher gets caught/outed, does he/she get booted from the event with egg on his/her face?

I know, don't quit my day job.

indyfabz

Unless your day job is as a comedian.

BlazingPedals

Quite often, the week before the event is a 'dog sweep' that you can ask to join - for free. Also most places allow marking the roads, so the week following the ride you can do the route just by watching the markings. As for riding bandit during the event, just don't do it. Bandits have a much higher chance of breaking down (cheapness begets poor maintenance?) and by the time a SAG driver stops, they may feel pressure to help anyway since his/her time has already been wasted.

tomato coupe

I have been 'advised' by the State Patrol on two previous occasions that I could not continue riding on the public highway that was in use by an Ironman event. I suspect they could have injected some unpleasantness into my life if I had ignored their advice.

indyfabz

I was once told to get off the course of some event called the U.S. Pro Cycling Championship. Some race involving some fast riders. Some where wearing jerseys with the 7-11 logo. One of those guys was blonde and had legs that looked like those of a former Olympic speed skating champion. Or maybe I was just imagining that. Anyway, he won the that year. Another year there was a dude from Texas who later got the cancer and then became some sort of drug addict, or so I was told.