Bandits and Pirates -- on Event Fees
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04-12-22, 01:41 PM
#127
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This pretty much sums up life. Except for a small number of people, everyone has something they want but are unable, or unwilling, to spend the money.
Ultimately the person decides to pass on it, or lets the want turn into a need with whatever justification necessary.
And participating in a bicycle event has to be so far down the list of needs, it is almost comical.
John
Ultimately the person decides to pass on it, or lets the want turn into a need with whatever justification necessary.
And participating in a bicycle event has to be so far down the list of needs, it is almost comical.
John
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04-12-22, 02:04 PM
#128
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04-12-22, 02:17 PM
#129
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04-12-22, 03:19 PM
#130
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I understand that it is highly unlikely to happen. There just aren't that many people out there who want to ride with folks like you and I. lol. I was also very purposeful in my use of "someone" and "a" bandit.
04-12-22, 04:16 PM
#131
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Assuming an open course, as we primarily have been discussing, why go to such lengths to ostracize a fellow bicyclist while tolerating motor vehicle traffic on your $100 course?
Even in this thread -- a well humored joke about ridin' bandit in a Trans Am might actually be funny if it wasn't so close to the actual status quo. Organized rides always seem to attract out the motorbikes and sport cars, and not only the ones with safety vests. Somehow I don't think the high insurance is just because of bandit bicyclists.
** You can feel free to continue to hurl insults at me (directly or indirectly). It's fine. I learned long ago to not take the internet folks too seriously.
Your experience probably best describes how I've felt -- as a spectator, whom some will call bandit.
I pedal more than I post, which is more than some 'round here can say. If I'm here, it is meaningfully so.
Even in this thread -- a well humored joke about ridin' bandit in a Trans Am might actually be funny if it wasn't so close to the actual status quo. Organized rides always seem to attract out the motorbikes and sport cars, and not only the ones with safety vests. Somehow I don't think the high insurance is just because of bandit bicyclists.
** You can feel free to continue to hurl insults at me (directly or indirectly). It's fine. I learned long ago to not take the internet folks too seriously.
Your experience probably best describes how I've felt -- as a spectator, whom some will call bandit.
I pedal more than I post, which is more than some 'round here can say. If I'm here, it is meaningfully so.
04-12-22, 04:21 PM
#132
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Assuming an open course, as we primarily have been discussing, why go to such lengths to ostracize a fellow bicyclist while tolerating motor vehicle traffic on your $100 course?
Even in this thread -- a well humored joke about ridin' bandit in a Trans Am might actually be funny if it wasn't so close to the actual status quo. Organized rides always seem to attract out the motorbikes and sport cars, and not only the ones with safety vests. Somehow I don't think the high insurance is just because of bandit bicyclists.
** You can feel free to continue to hurl insults at me (directly or indirectly). It's fine. I learned long ago to not take the internet folks too seriously.
Your experience probably best describes how I've felt -- as a spectator, whom some will call bandit.
I pedal more than I post, which is more than some 'round here can say. If I'm here, it is meaningfully so.
Even in this thread -- a well humored joke about ridin' bandit in a Trans Am might actually be funny if it wasn't so close to the actual status quo. Organized rides always seem to attract out the motorbikes and sport cars, and not only the ones with safety vests. Somehow I don't think the high insurance is just because of bandit bicyclists.
** You can feel free to continue to hurl insults at me (directly or indirectly). It's fine. I learned long ago to not take the internet folks too seriously.
Your experience probably best describes how I've felt -- as a spectator, whom some will call bandit.
I pedal more than I post, which is more than some 'round here can say. If I'm here, it is meaningfully so.
Welcome to the iggy list.
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04-12-22, 04:39 PM
#133
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But it seems that posting about riding along on an event without paying, and not using any event services, doesn’t seem to hit the mark for a lot of people.
Of course, mileage is always a justification for one’s position.
John
04-12-22, 05:11 PM
#134
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Assuming an open course, as we primarily have been discussing, why go to such lengths to ostracize a fellow bicyclist while tolerating motor vehicle traffic on your $100 course?
Even in this thread -- a well humored joke about ridin' bandit in a Trans Am might actually be funny if it wasn't so close to the actual status quo.
Even in this thread -- a well humored joke about ridin' bandit in a Trans Am might actually be funny if it wasn't so close to the actual status quo.
I ride enough that I don't feel terribly compelled to join the vast majority of organized rides, bandit or no. But wait - I thought that this was just a "thought exercise"?
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04-12-22, 05:36 PM
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04-12-22, 05:52 PM
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Assuming an open course, as we primarily have been discussing, why go to such lengths to ostracize a fellow bicyclist while tolerating motor vehicle traffic on your $100 course?
Even in this thread -- a well humored joke about ridin' bandit in a Trans Am might actually be funny if it wasn't so close to the actual status quo. Organized rides always seem to attract out the motorbikes and sport cars, and not only the ones with safety vests. Somehow I don't think the high insurance is just because of bandit bicyclists.
** You can feel free to continue to hurl insults at me (directly or indirectly). It's fine. I learned long ago to not take the internet folks too seriously.
Your experience probably best describes how I've felt -- as a spectator, whom some will call bandit.
I pedal more than I post, which is more than some 'round here can say. If I'm here, it is meaningfully so.
Even in this thread -- a well humored joke about ridin' bandit in a Trans Am might actually be funny if it wasn't so close to the actual status quo. Organized rides always seem to attract out the motorbikes and sport cars, and not only the ones with safety vests. Somehow I don't think the high insurance is just because of bandit bicyclists.
** You can feel free to continue to hurl insults at me (directly or indirectly). It's fine. I learned long ago to not take the internet folks too seriously.
Your experience probably best describes how I've felt -- as a spectator, whom some will call bandit.
I pedal more than I post, which is more than some 'round here can say. If I'm here, it is meaningfully so.
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04-12-22, 06:40 PM
#137
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Depending on the ride, they may well dump some cash into the community. For example renting a grange hall, or renting use of a park.
They will hire local community groups to provide assistance and refreshments. Perhaps with volunteers in those groups, so multi-level fund raising.
Our local cycling group has an annual Century Ride which is their major fund raiser. They have daily or weekly rides which they do allow people to participate in for free, but encourage membership.
They also do some community advocacy.
One day I found somebody had dripped glass along my main commuting route for several miles. I contacted both the County, as well as the local cycling group, and in less than a week it was swept.
They will hire local community groups to provide assistance and refreshments. Perhaps with volunteers in those groups, so multi-level fund raising.
Our local cycling group has an annual Century Ride which is their major fund raiser. They have daily or weekly rides which they do allow people to participate in for free, but encourage membership.
They also do some community advocacy.
One day I found somebody had dripped glass along my main commuting route for several miles. I contacted both the County, as well as the local cycling group, and in less than a week it was swept.
04-12-22, 09:39 PM
#138
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An unregistered bandit has not signed on to that agreement, and has no obligation to follow it. Should they choose to, they could sue the event, the organizers (individuals) and any groups involved, even though they weren’t supposed to be there.
Again, it’s debatable whether they would win, but neither I nor the nonprofit I volunteer for has the time or money for a court case just sitting around. Big, corporate events, maybe, but not the kind of grassroots stuff that I do.
04-12-22, 11:48 PM
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The main reason you should care is because you overcooked the second part of that blind S curve. You and your bike/gear are down at the bottom of the ravine next to the road injured. The race/ride is strung out. Nobody witnessed your accident. One of the two bandits, either the OP or Mr. Sellerz took your spot in the head count at the checkpoints. Maybe there are some more bandits on the ride which means there might be some donut chewers/picture takers still behind you that will come by eventually. I'd start making some noise if I were you. Otherwise, we might be reading/hearing about you on CNN/FOX/etc as a missing persons file. Well, until the search parties come upon you and we get the update.
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04-13-22, 12:40 AM
#140
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I'm curious to hear some opinions and discussion to perhaps reconsider my own perspectives, here. I mostly ride alone, and have become very self-sufficient for it. "Self-sufficiency", in this case, often means stopping a town or two over and spending some cash at a local bakery, donut shop, or at minimum, the C-store. And, as much as I appreciate their service, I also get a 'good feeling' about supporting a local establishment with the hope that they will stay in business for future rides.
Now then, either I've become more involved in the "cycling scene" the last few years, or there really has been an increase in the number of organized event rides, often times with a small (or not so small entry fee). Sometimes, the event organizers will pitch the event as supporting the local community (and sometimes there are legitimate charity drives to speak of). But in other cases, it seems like the pitch to support local is somewhat hollow -- we pay $50-100 and the organizer provides water, snacks, and sometimes even brings along their own food-truck vendors and all -- on these types of rides, then, most riders will rarely step off the route, rarely venture into any C-Store, or support any local diners or dives.
1. If an organized ride uses entirely public right-of-way, and the entrance fee is more 'profit' than 'charity', would you feel guilty about riding along as a 'bandit'**? Why, or why not?
2. Does this change if an organized ride is more so for 'charity'? (Has anybody ever even seen a 'bandit' on an MS150?)
3. Does the price of a ride influence these thoughts? I.e.: A Local Shop Ride where $20 is meant to cover the mid-way water tent (which you might not need) vs a "Big Corporate Sponsor" $60 ride where fees include lunch and a t-shirt (which you do not need)?
** For clarity -- riding along 'bandit' here should assume that you do not and will not need any of the organizers' resources (water, mechanical, SAG, etc), and that you have your own safety net (Uber, family, etc).
Now then, either I've become more involved in the "cycling scene" the last few years, or there really has been an increase in the number of organized event rides, often times with a small (or not so small entry fee). Sometimes, the event organizers will pitch the event as supporting the local community (and sometimes there are legitimate charity drives to speak of). But in other cases, it seems like the pitch to support local is somewhat hollow -- we pay $50-100 and the organizer provides water, snacks, and sometimes even brings along their own food-truck vendors and all -- on these types of rides, then, most riders will rarely step off the route, rarely venture into any C-Store, or support any local diners or dives.
1. If an organized ride uses entirely public right-of-way, and the entrance fee is more 'profit' than 'charity', would you feel guilty about riding along as a 'bandit'**? Why, or why not?
2. Does this change if an organized ride is more so for 'charity'? (Has anybody ever even seen a 'bandit' on an MS150?)
3. Does the price of a ride influence these thoughts? I.e.: A Local Shop Ride where $20 is meant to cover the mid-way water tent (which you might not need) vs a "Big Corporate Sponsor" $60 ride where fees include lunch and a t-shirt (which you do not need)?
** For clarity -- riding along 'bandit' here should assume that you do not and will not need any of the organizers' resources (water, mechanical, SAG, etc), and that you have your own safety net (Uber, family, etc).
04-13-22, 12:46 AM
#141
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Assuming an open course, as we primarily have been discussing, why go to such lengths to ostracize a fellow bicyclist while tolerating motor vehicle traffic on your $100 course?
Even in this thread -- a well humored joke about ridin' bandit in a Trans Am might actually be funny if it wasn't so close to the actual status quo. Organized rides always seem to attract out the motorbikes and sport cars, and not only the ones with safety vests. Somehow I don't think the high insurance is just because of bandit bicyclists.
** You can feel free to continue to hurl insults at me (directly or indirectly). It's fine. I learned long ago to not take the internet folks too seriously.
Your experience probably best describes how I've felt -- as a spectator, whom some will call bandit.
I pedal more than I post, which is more than some 'round here can say. If I'm here, it is meaningfully so.
Even in this thread -- a well humored joke about ridin' bandit in a Trans Am might actually be funny if it wasn't so close to the actual status quo. Organized rides always seem to attract out the motorbikes and sport cars, and not only the ones with safety vests. Somehow I don't think the high insurance is just because of bandit bicyclists.
** You can feel free to continue to hurl insults at me (directly or indirectly). It's fine. I learned long ago to not take the internet folks too seriously.
Your experience probably best describes how I've felt -- as a spectator, whom some will call bandit.
I pedal more than I post, which is more than some 'round here can say. If I'm here, it is meaningfully so.
Stop moving the goalposts. Either you understand what a “bandit” is, or you don’t.
What is “bandit” behavior? Any or all of: Taking the start / finish line, or otherwise knowingly joining the course/ group during the event. Making use of on-course amenities, finish line events, or collecting participant / finisher “swag” that you’re not entitled to because YOU DIDN’T SIGN UP
What isn’t? Through-riding on an otherwise open-to-traffic road that happens to be part of an event route. Don’t take the start/finish or sit in on the group, even if you take real good pulls like Larry.
Nobody “just wanders into “ a closed-course event by accident. Even “pre-running “ a TdF stage, the road is open, up to a point, but the marshals will keep you out of places like the finish chute, and the Gendarmerie sweeps everyone off the road ahead of the race caravan.
There’s a difference between playing devil’s advocate and being deliberately obtuse. This is the latter. It’s impressive that you can get so many miles in under that bridge.
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04-13-22, 03:59 AM
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04-13-22, 04:29 AM
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Not really. My phone died once on a ride. I made some wrong turns and got lost in the boonies of VA, in the heat and humidity of August. Ended up doing 158 miles before I got back to civilization and the start/finish. The event was packed up and gone by then. Nobody was out looking for me. Good thing I wasn't laying in a ditch somewhere.
04-13-22, 05:31 AM
#144
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Usually, the participants are not insured by the event. Normally, the registration includes a waiver with some form of “Hold Harmless” clause, that if you crash out and hurt yourself, you won’t sue the event or the organizers.
An unregistered bandit has not signed on to that agreement, and has no obligation to follow it. Should they choose to, they could sue the event, the organizers (individuals) and any groups involved, even though they weren’t supposed to be there.
Again, it’s debatable whether they would win, but neither I nor the nonprofit I volunteer for has the time or money for a court case just sitting around. Big, corporate events, maybe, but not the kind of grassroots stuff that I do.
An unregistered bandit has not signed on to that agreement, and has no obligation to follow it. Should they choose to, they could sue the event, the organizers (individuals) and any groups involved, even though they weren’t supposed to be there.
Again, it’s debatable whether they would win, but neither I nor the nonprofit I volunteer for has the time or money for a court case just sitting around. Big, corporate events, maybe, but not the kind of grassroots stuff that I do.
04-13-22, 05:47 AM
#145
Senior Member
That actually happened on a ride my club hosted. Someone went down in the rain and got pretty messed up. They tried to sue. Club looked at the rider list and said, "sorry you weren't on our ride." End of story. BTW, insurance for ride doesn't cover riders' medical expenses, it protects the organization from being sued.
04-13-22, 06:19 AM
#146
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Three people, myself included, did have to make hospital visits. One woman got a nasty sore on her lip. One guy crashed while drunk and fractured his collarbone. I cut my palm with my Swiss Army Knife and needed three stiches. I had my own health plan. Don't know about the other two, but I suspect one was covered by Medicare.
04-13-22, 06:27 AM
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Correct. The insurance the club/ride buys usually only covers its liabilities. It does not cover/insure ride participants. One exception that I encountered was when I participated in a 3 months tour with Adventure Cycling Association. It actually had health insurance that covered tour participants who were uninsured. That was back in 1999, when coverage was much less expensive, and there group, unsupported tours were limited to about a dozen people. I would be surprised if it's still offered today.
Three people, myself included, did have to make hospital visits. One woman got a nasty sore on her lip. One guy crashed while drunk and fractured his collarbone. I cut my palm with my Swiss Army Knife and needed three stiches. I had my own health plan. Don't know about the other two, but I suspect one was covered by Medicare.
Three people, myself included, did have to make hospital visits. One woman got a nasty sore on her lip. One guy crashed while drunk and fractured his collarbone. I cut my palm with my Swiss Army Knife and needed three stiches. I had my own health plan. Don't know about the other two, but I suspect one was covered by Medicare.
Last edited by Koyote; 04-13-22 at 06:42 AM.
04-13-22, 06:42 AM
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