greatbasin

This is what I've got so far. I've got a lot of volume left in the rear panniers and bag but the beam rack is only rated for 15 lbs. I don't want to put more weight in the rear anyway. I tried to get most of the weight in the center of the frame. I'm getting a tri-bag to bolt where the bottle cage is so I can move a little more up there. Right now, the center of gravity is where it says "vigorelli" on the top tube.

It's got everything I need for three days, including camp and all food, but only 2L of water. I can take a filter, but I'll be near potable sources and small market stores, so I left it out. I'll have clean clothes everyday. I'm packing cotton and wool which are bulkier than synthetics but I like them better.

I wish I had a little more volume in the handlebar bag. I've got a 35mm camera and two lenses in there, but I'd like to put a book and some art supplies in there too. I might want to take a few more pounds of other nice-to-haves, but I'll know better what I really want after I've been out a few days. I could save a lot on the 8 pounds of food if I was willing to eat food from country markets and restaurants. I'll see if I change my mind about that.

I think what I've learned loading this is that even if I had longer chainstays, I don't think I'd want to put more weight in the rear panniers. It's easy to have volume back there, but putting 20 or 25 pounds back there lightens the front too much. I don't know if I'd rather have low-riders in the front, a porteur rack, or just a bigger handlebar bag. This carbon fork only gives me one option. The frame-packs work nicely.

Germany_chris

If you’re not going super heavy the Cross Check is great

Tourist in MSN

There are ways to attach a bottle cage under the downtube, but with your bike I do not know how long a bottle you can fit. One liter Smartwater brand bottles might be too long, they fit a cage nicely but if under the downtube a velcro strap at the top is a good idea to keep the bottle well supported up where it can't hit the front tire.

I bought a point and shoot waterproof camera for bike touring. I understand the 35mm, I have some of those cameras too, but they stay home when I am on my bike.

I do not see a pump.
​​​​​​​

Doug64

My wife and daughters carry most of their gear weight on the rear of their bikes. Nobody has had a problem with this setup, and I know they are not light packers My wife has pulled away from me on the downhills when I was going 40 mph, and her bike is rock solid on the corners.

Two surly LHTs, and a custom built Co-motion touring bike. They were packed for a 2-month ride, and they even had dresses for special occasions. The"girls" also carried all their camping gear, including their tent. Their bikes all have small frames: 42 cm, 47 cm, and 50 cm. The 42 and the 50 cm bikes are running 26" wheels

greatbasin

I use a bladder for water. It's in the top-tube bag. I think it's 2.5L, but I only filled it with a little over 4 lbs of water, so it must be about 2L. I see what you mean though. I could get more storage in the position behind the front wheel. I don't need a bottle, but I could put another tri-bag there if it was small enough. I think that's traditionally where the stove fuel goes. I have a Trangia stove I like, but I boil water more than I cook and isobutane just has so much more energy density than alcohol or even white gas. Since the isobutane can nests inside the pot for my stove, I keep it there.

I have a short pump that telescopes. Vibrelli, in the handlebar bag. I could put it in the top-tube bag or the tri-bag with the tubes.

The Surlys look good. I had a guy accept my offer on a disc trucker last week, but then he ghosted me. I guess he changed his mind. With this Bianchi, I'm going to try touring on 25mm GP5000's and latex tubes (butyl backups). If it works the way I'm hoping, I won't want fat tires for touring on pavement. Instead of running high sidewalls and low pressures, I put a Redshift stem on there. I could also go with a Brooks Flyer, other springer or a suspension seat post and keep the lower rolling resistance. I'll see if even that is necessary, but I put the Redshift on there already to also raise the bars.

Tourist in MSN

It depends a lot on the weather where and when you tour, most days I use less than two liters during a ride, but occasionally dip into my third bottle on longer days or in hot weather. I had a 14 hour day about six years ago, used up all three liters that day even though the temperature never got up into the 60s.

I generally prefer cooler climates for my touring locations, with the exception of a two week trip in S Florida which a friend of mine really wanted to do. Even though it was easy to buy water bottles on most of that Florida trip, I still carried two extra water bottles on that trip.

I did a week of mountain biking while car camping in North Dakota about five years ago, every bikepacker I saw was badly dehydrated when they rolled into the campgrounds during that week, they all tried too hard to avoid carrying the weight of water that they needed. A lot of mountain bikers that setup their bikes with bikepacking gear also wear small backpacks, sometimes with a bladder in it. One untralight packer on this forum often talks about ice in a bladder in his backpack for hot days. You might start thinking about what kind of light weight backpack you would want to use as a contingency for more volume, weight and water on your bike.

For lightweight camping, there is nothing wrong with using a butane mix for a stove instead of alcohol or petroleum based liquid fuels. When I fly somewhere I carry a butane mix type of stove and that is my first choice for backpacking too. Those that carry their stove fuel under the downtube have liquid fuels. For you, it makes sense to pack your fuel as you plan to do. I have only carried my fuel bottles in a cage when burning kerosene.

staehpj1

That looks like a nice setup. I am sure you will find ways to tweak it, that generally is an ongoing process, but that is fine.

One thing I will suggest. I had a similar rear rack on a road bike with a lightweight setup and abandoned it in favor of a more normal rack. After some looking at various choices and tinkering I found that the regular rack was actually lighter, carried the load lower, and was more secure. Something like the old Blackburn EX-1 is lighter than most beam type racks and there are lighter models. Pretty much all of them are rated to carry more. You can either use the brake bridge bolt or p-clamps to anchor the top. At the drop out you could use adaptor plates at the QR like the Tubus QR Axle Adapter Set or a home made version of those plates.

In any case. Have get out and ride with that bike and have fun. it looks like a workable solution as is and where it may need tweaking for your particular usage will likely become obvious as you go. You should expect to make improvements as you go with pretty much any setup.

robow

I apologize if this has been mentioned before, as I haven't read through this entire thread, but looking at your bike's wheels above, think about sticking an extra spoke in your panniers or tape one to your chain stays, or at least consider throwing a Fiber Fix spoke in a bag. If for some reason that you break a spoke, that particular type of spoke pattern and minimum number of spokes is extremely difficult to true well enough to be able to ride if one does get broken. But then my last name should have been Murphy.

Doug64

+1

My road bike has a similar spoke pattern, only it has 24 spokes instead of 20. The only complaint I have is that it does not take much to knock the wheels out of true. That is with no load and a 155 lb. rider.

Robow's recommendations might be good insurance. If you carry extra spokes also carry a spoke wrench. Actually, a spoke wrench might come in handy even if you don't carry any extra spokes.

You'll just have to ride it and see how it works out. Good luck, it looks like a fun bike to ride.

staehpj1

That is a lot of food to carry. I strongly advise you try planning to stop and shop daily carrying only a days worth of food or buy even more frequently than that. Carry more when necessary and have some extra calories to get you by in a pinch but 8 pounds? No way!

Just food for thought...
A light breakfast in camp is nice That could be something like instant oatmeal or a granola bar rather than actually cooking. That way you can get on the road quickly Coffee if you must. You can follow with second breakfast on the road. A diner stop is nice if one is available. Something from a grocery or minimart suffices if not. Lunch from a diner can be nice, but so can wraps or other stuff assembled by the roadside. Any of that can be purchased the day you consume it oftem immediately before. Dinner is a good meal to cook in camp. The ingredients can be purchased at some point during the day, but if you know where you will be staying you may be able to put off buying them until you are in camp. Sometimes a short ride into town to shop for dinner ingredients can be nice. Buying at the last minute allows for use of perishable ingredients.

All that can mean that you don't even need to carry a day of food other than some emergency calories that may or may not even be a meal. For me they could be a brick of ramen noodles and a foil pack of tuna, a package of fig newtons, some cliff bars, or a few packs of instant oatmeal.

Obviously there will be places where stops will be more widely spaced, but I have not found that I have needed to go much more than 24 hours without any chance for resupply on road tours.

I may also carry some real food that constitutes some planned meals, but never anything approaching 8 pounds. Heck that is about what I carry for 4 days in the back country backpacking and beyond that I will arrange for caches, or other restock.

Tourist in MSN

About four years ago I did a van supported trip with ACA, the van hauled all our gear and all we needed to carry each day was water and maybe lunch. Most riders brought bikes that were light road bikes. And a lot of them needed work. I tried to true up a couple wheels that had those extra thick spokes with weird lacing patterns and the spoke tension was so high that I had real trouble with a normal type spoke wrench. Some wheels I could not true and did not want to try because of fear of rounding off the nipple flats.

If you get a spoke wrench for one of those wheels with unusual nipples, make sure that the spoke wrench grips all sides of the nipple instead of the standard type cheap spoke wrenches.

That Bianchi that the OP has, while I think that a spoke failure is unlikely, if it does happen I suspect that would require a trip to the bike shop or maybe home instead of a repair that can be done in the campsite. It has rim brakes so it can't be run too far out of true. Not sure if a Fiber Fix would fix it, but it likely would make the bike rideable, provided you knew how to use it.

I did not build up my road bike wheels, bought that as a complete bike, thus I do not know the spoke lengths. Instead of trying to measure them, I bought a Fiber Fix instead. Hopefully never need it but nice to have an insurance policy.

greatbasin

I toured the Owens Valley on this bike. The tour was pleasant and I had no serious problems. I did form some opinions.

This was my route: https://goo.gl/maps/L8yQGUVnv1daKkXN6

I returned from Manzanar on a slightly different route but Google Maps has a waypoint limit that prevents me from detailing it. Mostly, I detoured to the west through Round Valley instead of returning up through Pleasant Valley.

Weather
Earlier this week, there was rain forecast for most of Northern California and anywhere in the mountains the forecast was for lows below freezing. I was camping, so this place known as "the land of little rain" was the best option and it really worked out weather-wise. It's only a little more than two-hours drive from the house, and it was 80 degrees during the day with patchy clouds to give some shade and probably high-40's at night. I used my 35 degree rated bag with no tent and was fine.

Terrain
The route is fantastic. I highly recommend it. The Owens Valley is beautiful with the White Mountains to the East and the Eastern Sierra to the West. The Sierra rise as high as 10,000 feet above the valley and they include Mount Whitney, the highest point in the lower-48. The route I rode is mostly level. There's a slight decline going south down the Owens River valley, but most of the climbing is up and down alluvial fans along the edges of the valley which are pretty gentle. If you like climbs, this area offers epic climbs up Onion Valley, Horseshoe Meadow, White Mountain, Whitney Portal....

My route avoided US Highway 395 for most of the distance. Traffic on 395 was not bad, with gaps between vehicles of several minutes. On the sides roads and back roads, there was virtually no traffic at all. Some of the roads are basically abandoned and the pavement is cracked up. There's a couple of miles of gravel on County Road and some other places that are washed out, but I was able to do it all with 25's.

Towns
There's several towns along the way with at least two within a day's ride. Bishop is the biggest town, with Big Pine, and Independence both smaller. Lone Pine is a little farther south than I made it, but there's no great stretches between towns and there are hotels and restaurants in all of them. I only bought water.

Camping
There's numerous campgrounds all over. I also could have just camped in the bush (public land) but I only stayed in campgrounds. I slept on picnic tables in the campsites with my foam pad and sleeping bag. I would have been golden if I was still twenty-something, but nowadays, after a long day cycling I don't recover so well just sleeping on a board. I made a mental note to stay at a hotel at least every other night in the future.

Food & Water
Hydration was the hardest thing. I drank 10L of water on the trip that was just two half-days and a full day. I used water with electrolytes. I could drink it, but I just couldn't absorb it fast enough. The second day, I was getting bloated and uncomfortable. I felt dehydrated, but during the night it eventually worked its way through. My bladder filled and I had to urinate seven times during the night. I just wasn't able to absorb all the water I needed until many hours after I needed it. I guess that's why people use IV hydration when they can.

I did the trip powered by ketones. I didn't eat anything but pecans, cheese, and a few tins of salmon and mackerel in olive oil. I eat a lot of salad and veggies at home, but they didn't fit on the bike. I bought an avacado in Independence, but it was rotten and I had to throw it away. On Tuesday, I did feel my energy level drop after the first 60 miles or so. My appetite was off from dehydration and I wasn't eating much of anything. I do understand that ketosis increased my body's demand for hydration, but I was also riding 90 miles in the desert that day. Had I been eating carbs, I might not have been as dehydrated. Maybe next time. Actually, driving home passing all the burger and ice-cream shops and the signs advertising "real milkshakes," I decided I'm a dope. I should get a touring motorcycle and stop at every burger and ice cream joint and stuff myself until I've got a big belly. That's the way to do it.

The Bike
Worked fine. My wheels didn't implode. The bike is 21 pounds and I loaded it with almost 30 pounds of stuff. I took more tools and spares than I needed. I took a heavy camera and lenses, and I took more food than I ate. The GP5000 tires and latex tubes worked fine. I didn't have any flats. The latex does lose about 20 psi over 24 hours, so they'd be down to 80 psi in the morning and I had to pump them up every day. That's just a trade-off with latex. Maybe they'd work better if filled with nitrogen. Even though the total weight on them was only 160 pounds,I kept them at 95 or 100 psi because I didn't want a pinch flat crossing a cattle guard or hitting washed-out pavement or something.

I don't like the drop bars. I raised them as high as I could so that they were an inch below the saddle. The second day, I dropped the saddle a bit so they were about even. Maybe they gave me more power, but I didn't like to have to bend my neck back to see up or the tilted view of the world I had when I looked to the side. I had some pain in my neck between the shoulders on the third day, but the ergos were not that painful all things considered. It was mostly the propensity for the bike to make me look at the ground in front of the bike that I resented.

The gears were nice, mostly the low of 29 gear inches which I wouldn't have had with a typical road bike. I can see using an even lower gear with a heavier load or on harder climbs. The indexed brifters seem like just a gimmick to me and more trouble than they're worth. They could probably use an adjustment, but why bother? Non-indexed downtube shifters have never given me problems and they don't go out of adjustment after 40 years or more.

Luggage worked fine, but I can see why racks supported at the drop-outs would be better. The handlebar bag did what I needed but would bounch and twist on the bars over the bumps like the washboard on the gravel sections or the cracked up abandoned paved roads. To be fair, I did have to shim the handlebars for them to clamp on, but in the future I'd rather have a porteur rack. The beam rack in the back held up, but the 15 pound rating is limiting. The frame pack worked well and held most of the weight: water, tools, spares, cans of fish. I didn't use the one in my last picture, but a 6.5L triangular one.

Summary
I liked bike touring. If you asked me right now I might say I'm done, but I'll probably be more excited about doing more in a couple days. The biggest drawback for me is time away from my family. I do a lot with my teen boys and I wasn't able to get them into it. I can do backpacking, hunting, camping, motorcycling, and so many more things with them, but bike touring, I'm alone. I could get my wife to go for day rides and easier tours with hotels. I thought about a tandem but remain skeptical. Maybe I'll try renting one some time. I'll probably tour on my own and I have plenty of other destinations in mind, from Point Reyes and Marin county, to Big Sur and the Carmel Valley, and Napa and Sonoma, Highway 49 and the gold country. Tioga Pass and Yosemite, and so much more. I'll want a better bike with upright bars and low-mounted panniers. I already have some Ortleib back rollers - just need a bike they'll fit. I think I'd rather have a porteur rack in the front rather than low-riders. I like my camera and stuff to be right in front of me. I'll be looking for a better bike, but I'm glad I toured on this one that I picked up from a neighbor for a couple hundred bucks. I have a better idea what I'd want when I spend more.

Tourist in MSN

Thanks for posting the update.

You said you had a foam pad and slept on picnic tables. The modern air mattresses are pricey, but at about 2 inches of thickness they are much better than foam on a hard surface like a table. I do not have a problem with foam pads for backpacking where I am on soil that will give a bit under my weight, but if sleeping on a hard surface like a wood floor, the self inflating foam pads like Thermorest pads do not do it for me.

You said you are looking for another bike, but if you decide to keep using this one, not sure what stem you have. In post 73 above, the photo looks like you have an adjustable stem angled up as much as you can. There are steerer tube extenders, but I think you can't use them on carbon steerer tubes. Do you know if your steerer tube is carbon or not? If carbon I would not make any changes unless a bike mechanic said it is ok, but steel should not be a problem if you wanted to add an extender.

Tandem bikes reinforce your relationships, if it is great it can get better but if it is a little rocky it can make the relationship worse.

During a long bike ride, you go in and out of a keto state if you occasionally have some carbs. If you had some granola bars or a baggie of some dried fruit, that could give you more energy at times if you need it for some hills, etc.

Nice write up.

greatbasin

Thanks. I have the thin 3/4-length z-fold closed-cell foam and I have the large 1" self-inflating Thermarest. I didn't want to take the Thermarest because it's bulkier. I use it for car camping. The z-fold foam doesn't offer much comfort, but it does insulate. I'll have to check out some inflatables that are thicker than the Thermarest -- not sure there's any that aren't bulkier than I'd want on the bike, but better recovery might be worth some bulk.

Steerer is chro-mo. Stem is Redshift 30 deg. with the shock-stop dampers. I know I could put an extender on the steerer, but I also want to change the bars and I want dropouts with eyelets on the front and rear. I could use p-clamps at least on the rear (fork is carbon), but it's not satisfactory to have everything kludged-together with shims on everything, extensions, and held together with hardware store parts. I might keep this bike for day rides for which it would work as-is. I might cannibalize the Ultegra triple drivetrain to build-up another frameset. I might just sell it on. It depends on what I find to step-up to. It's really not bad at all, but I'm willing to spend 10 times as much for a bike that meets more of my desires. Just have to find the right one or the right frame and parts to build up.

My best bet for a bike touring partner would be either of my sons or both. They're not into it now, but maybe as they get older. One of them will get his license next year and will be able to help me stage a car for one-way routes, biking, backpacking, paddling, whatever. The next three bike tours I have in mind are loops though so there's no need to wait for that.

staehpj1

Some of the inflatable pads are surprisingly comfortable. I love my Neoair Xlite. It is 2.5" thick, weighs 12 ounces, and has an R 4.2 insulation rating. I find that fine when the gound isn't frozen, but when it is really cold and the ground frozen you can combine it with your folding pad or use an Xtherm version (R 6.9). The downside is either is kind of expensive. I am less familiar with them, but there are other high end inflatable pads that are thick, light, and comfy. Some are even quite a bit cheaper.

greatbasin

That's great. I'm going to get one of those. I see it for a couple hundred which is not that much in the new money. I remembered one of the reasons I've avoided inflatables is because I usually camp with a big 90 pound dog and I wanted something tough (also why I don't use a more compact $600 down bag anymore) -- but none of that applies on the bike. When I was biking recently, I saw a fella pull out of somewhere with his big dog in a bike trailer. I thought about it for a minute and said "nope." When he was young, he'd pull my bike along at 25 mph. Now he jogs along at 10 or less, and I'll still take him for short rides, mostly on dirt roads where there's no traffic so he can be off leash. But touring for 50 miles a day, I'd have to tow over a hundred pounds of dog and trailer and he'd just get hot in the sun unless he had some kind of canopy and that just gets absurd. But as long as he stays home, I can have an comfy inflatable.

Tourist in MSN

Agree that the air mattress by itself is not good enough in winter on packed snow.

I found that a shorty thin (1 inch) Thermarest self inflating pad under the air mattress works well on packed snow. The shorty pad was from head down to below hips, but not under feet or knees.

staehpj1

Yeah, it nees some help on snow or hard frozen ground. My surprise was that it worked okay for very cold nights when the days were still warm and the ground wasn't frozen. I found the xLite to be okay by itself for nights in the teens F when the days were warmer.

Which thremarest pad is that? It seems like one would be an okay choice if you already have it, but I wonder if it is the best choice if you are buying something just for the purpose. I always thought about theTherm-a-Rest Z-Lite Sol. I kind of figured that it's full length at almost half the cost might be a better choice. If weight were a huge factor it could be cut down to the shortie length (I might). It is only R-2 vs R-2.4, but I'd think it would be easier to stay on top of the rectangular pad when using two pads especially since it has some texture. I could be wrong about that though since I have not tried it.

FWIW, if cut down, some velcro tabs would allow re assembling it when desired and the cut off could be used as a seat pad in camp if you want.

Exped make Flexmat and Flexmat+ models. Some of the plus models look likely to hit the sweet spot for price size and R value when used with an inflatable on frozen ground (they are a bit warmer and come in a few sizes).

Cheap foam mats may also fit the bill for some. One of those blue foam $13 ones from walmart or where even may suffice. I remember when that is pretty much what our backpacking pads looked like back in the day. When in my late teens I had the cheapest of cheap gear, but most good pads were still just closed cell foam back then.

Tourist in MSN

The one in the photo, had it for over a decade, an inch thick, shorty version, weighs 425 grams.



I have bought several pads that had leaks at REI scratch and dent sales.

From what I have read, most people think that a pad on top of the air mattress instead of below is best for insulation. That may be true in my case because with my shorty pad part of my air mattress is on the ground, not on a pad, and convection inside the air mattress can make the entire air mattress colder. But it worked good enough for me the way I do it. I think the convection in the pad was not significant.

My air mattress is one of these in graphic below (discontinued model) (505 grams) and this usually is my choice if I might roll off the side of the air mattress because the sides are slightly higher and hold me in place better. I also have the Neo-Air Xlite (375 grams) and use that for backpacking where cutting a few grams is more useful but that air mattress lacks the side parts that are up higher.



Side note, if you are using a self inflating pad or an air mattress, you should have some self adhesive tube patches in case you need one on your sleeping pad.

staehpj1

I think the somewhat decent R rating of the Neoail is supposedly due to nature of the baffling. Your pad looks like there is no baffling. Is it insulated? If not it would seem like it would have a very poor R rating. Or maybe the claims for the xLite's baffling are marketing hype? Have you noticed the xLite being any warmer?

Yeah something I am likely to forget since I have had super good luck (my current xLite has no patches after a lot of use). I should add some self stick patches to the kit or check that I still have some of the original patch kit in good shape. In a pinch duct tape will suffice for a temporary fix, but may require a clean up before a better fix..

Tourist in MSN

This says R=3.2 for the REI Flash.
https://www.rei.com/product/845300/r...r-sleeping-pad

And this says 4.2 for the Neo Air. I am not sure why these pads are so noisy when new, the crinkly sound is quite noticeable, I think that is from the thermal barrier addition.
https://www.rei.com/product/172126/t...e-sleeping-pad

My blue self inflating pad, I have no data on that but I think that was replaced by this one at a bit over 2 for R value.
https://www.rei.com/product/829820/t...e-sleeping-pad

I have not had my Neo Air on cold weather trips, so can't comment on it.

Before these self inflating pads were invented or high quality air mattresses, we all used those blue or tan color closed cell pads for everything. A friend of mine worked in a camping store, he started to put a Space Blanket on the inside of the tent floor when snow camping, not sure if it helped any but it might have.

I had bought an open cell foam pad, maybe an inch and a half thick that had a nylon cover. I opened up that cover and added a half inch thick piece of blue closed cell foam. That worked great when sleeping on snow. But it was VERY bulky even though it was a shorty pad. (I used spare clothing under my knees and feet where there was no pad.) I think the last time I used that was a snowshoe trip in the Porkies on the UP in the 1970s, the other guys just had blue foam pads and were very jealous.

Most of my pads were bought at REI scratch and dent with leaks, I patched them. And the one I put a self adhesive patch on, the previous patch I put on it was not an inner tube patch, it was a little piece of nylon that I glued on. The patch came off during one of my trips, the glue did not hold. I usually used Seam Grip but I think that patch was with some other glue. The Seam Grip patches all seemed to hold really well. Fortunately, I knew exactly where to put my inner tube patch, when on a camping trip you do not have a bathtube you can use to find the bubbles coming out.

Pratt

Lots of excellent advice, from well meaning and extremely knowledgeable people. What they all lack however is, they are not you. My view is that any bike is fine for a first tour. The less appropriate it is, the better instructor it will be to teach you what you want in a touring bike.
Touring involves so many issues, grades, length, pavement, time, etc. that there can be no ideal touring bike.
I'm sure we have all seen other tourers, happy as can be, riding bikes we would never consider.
A good way to decide if the gearing is low enough is walking up a few hills.
Good luck, and have fun!

garryg

You could pick a touring bike to ride Tour de France but it would be a poor choice in my opinion.You could pick a beach cruiser to be your new gravel bike ,to each their own.
Picking a bike with proper gearing for touring, lots of braze ons for mounting stuff,wheels built for hauling weight. seems to me to be a wiser choice if you want to tour.They are called touring bikes for a reason.

kombiguy

I like my LHT. I started my cross-country on it. I did change the chainring on it to give me a lower gear for the hills, and the tires. Other than that, pretty much stock.