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REI rant

Old 05-24-20, 08:11 PM
  #76  
canklecat
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Originally Posted by Camilo
I think you don't understand that the general term "co-op" is broader than what you think.

A cooperative, often shortened to “co-op,” is a business that is owned and operated by and for the benefit of its members.

A co-op bike shop, or the mechanic ship you mentioned are ones of many types of co-op. There are co-op health food stores, co-op agri-businesses that have farmers for members, co-op apartment buildings and other residential properties, co-op retail stores, etc. etc. REI does not, and has never been known as a co-op bike shop in the sense you're thinking. They are simply a cooperative retail business, owned by (and profits shared) by its members, selling a wide variety of outdoor gear, not just bikes.


This is just so far fetched. which makes me think you're kidding.

REI's retail strategy is to sell only good quality outdoor gear at fair prices and pay its profits as dividends to members, paying fair wages and benefits to its employees. Walmart's retail strategy is to sell everything under the sun at the cheapest price possible, no matter what the quality (usually mediocre to low), paying employees the lowest wages and benefits possible, and pay it's profits as dividends to a few of the absolute richest people in the US, the various members of the Walton family. You think this is comparable?


I did mention a good friend was a mechanic for REI, right? I'll take the word of someone who actually worked for them. And the rapid employee turnover is a pretty good indicator of how well a business adheres to its stated mission.

Hey, I'll buy from REI when my LBS doesn't have something I need right away. But don't expect me to buy into their co-op kumbaya hype. The only difference between our local REI and Walmart or Target is the quality of the merchandise and their tricky strategy of annual dividends rather than simply lower prices every day.

Calling something a co-op doesn't make it one.
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Old 05-24-20, 08:12 PM
  #77  
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I’m going to chime in with a couple of observations and experiences. First, I’ll state that I’ve been a REI member since 1973. Second, I worked at a large REI store for about 10 years in the bike/ski/paddle department. Third, since fully retiring, I ride at least once a week with current REI employees and bike shop techs and talk with them often about current practices. Here are some of the things I know (and they will relate mostly to the store at which I worked):
  • When working there, we were not allowed to ship any new bike to a home address - all bikes had to be assembled, tuned, checked, and delivered at the store. I assumed that was company-wide policy. Since the pandemic shutdown, the protocol is that if a bike is ordered online, it will be delivered to a REI bike shop where it will be assembled, checked, adjusted, and then re-packed and sent on to the customer’s home address. Supposedly, the bike is ride-ready before it is repacked and should need very little adjustment or reassembly upon arrival. That’s how it’s supposed to work.
  • Virtually all bike shops, whether in a large store or a small shop, have niche markets. It does no good to piss and moan about what you want the store to carry - they carry what works for them. REI aims for the middle/upper segment of the outdoor market - their bikes reflect that. We often sent customers to a higher-end shop if I couldn’t find what they needed, but we hardly ever had a customer complain that the prices were unfair - they knew what the store was.
  • I realize there can be a vast disparity in experience and training in the different shops - especially between larger stores and smaller stores. The shop where I worked had at least four techs who had been to the Barnett Bicycle Institute for in-depth training, and a few of the techs had been in the shop for 15+ years - they were not slouches. The shop had developed a loyal following much like you’d see at a LBS, and they did high quality work.
  • Finally, the complaint about high prices may have some validity, but not when you compare apples to apples. If you need a long-sleeve base layer for riding, you can find a Smartwool shirt that will cause your wallet to go into lockdown. Or you can find a Pearl Izumi or Co-op brand shirt that seems more reasonable. Or you can go to Walmart and spend even less. But what you don’t get at other places is a 10% dividend or a one-year return policy. And, by the way, co-ops aren’t required to have a work space for members - that’s merely a choice that some shops choose to offer. Previous poster stated “Calling something a co-op doesn't make it one.“ But looking at the history of REI (going back to 1938), that's exactly what it is regardless of how you choose to define it.
I certainly would not state that REI is for everyone, and I know that some have been alienated by the store for some reason or another - that’s the nature of retail. As far as the OP’s post regarding the bike as it was delivered, it sounds like there were a couple of issues that shouldn’t have occurred - especially the headset issue. But the brake caliper problem - if you’re going to have disc brakes, then you need to know how to center your wheel and discs when putting the wheel on. That’s an owner education issue and I bet a phone call might have solved that. We also have no idea if the OP tried to rectify the issues with REI - much like one would do with a LBS. yes, there were issues, but 180 miles in three days and “I like it” seems hardly rant-worthy.

Again, just my two cents.
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Old 05-24-20, 08:14 PM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
you just need to learn more about cooperatives...
See my above response to a virtually identical post.

Do you folks worked for REI or have some interest in them? Great.

It's not a proper co-op. It's daily practices don't match their mission statement. The "dividends" are just refunds, instead of lower everyday prices. Call it what you like but it's just a clever misdirection.

I'll buy from them anyway, next time I need something right now and the LBS doesn't have it.

Not buying the hype, though.
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Old 05-24-20, 08:39 PM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by canklecat
See my above response to a virtually identical post.

Do you folks worked for REI or have some interest in them? Great.

It's not a proper co-op. It's daily practices don't match their mission statement. The "dividends" are just refunds, instead of lower everyday prices. Call it what you like but it's just a clever misdirection.

I'll buy from them anyway, next time I need something right now and the LBS doesn't have it.

Not buying the hype, though.
No i don't work there. I buy random stuff from the bike dept and its usually because i want something right away and REI is still open when LBS is closed. I buy clothes from there at times, but its all rei branded, which is the least expensive.
Definitely dont work there, unfortunately it can't possibly pay what I would want.

Each store is different with regard to what is stocked and how much turnover there is. The local one to me has been open for 4 or 5 years and a mechanic is still there from the start, as well as some other faces I recognize. It isnt always massive turnover, like you suggest.

You mention their practices don't match the mission statement how so?
“we inspire, educate and outfit for a lifetime of outdoor adventure and stewardship.”

Thats their mission statement. Besides the lack of an Oxford comma, whats wrong with the mission statement? How does the company not fulfill thst mission statement?

The local store has many in person events and classes each month- basic bike maintenance, intro to climbing, backpacking essentials, etc etc etc. There are also scheduled talks given by people who have done incredible trips. They partner with local outdoor organizations and advocacy groups for projects and fundraising. They advertise local trails/parks each month. And obviously they sell gear that allows people to experience outdoor adventures.
The 3 other stores I've been to(in 3 different states) are all similar from what I saw.

Sure seems like they are on point with fulfilling that mission statement.
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Old 05-24-20, 10:09 PM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv
Before the pandemic, did REI ship bikes directly to consumers or was it pick up in store only? Maybe this sales model is new to them. It's good to know how to fix your own bike, you can avoid a lot of drama.
I purchased a Tern from REI years ago, they would not ship it to my house. I thought that they did ship a few bikes but not all of them. I don't live near a REI store but ordered it and picked it up on a trip to a city that had an REI.
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Old 05-24-20, 10:38 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by StarBiker
A better comparison as I said above is Dicks. Many of you might not be familiar with them. At least it seems that way. Although they have a presence in every state. REI is not located in every state. They locate their stores only in well off areas. That's not Dicks.
You’d have to live in a pretty deep cave to not know what Dick’s Sporting Goods is. They have almost 750 locations in the US. REI has just over 160. And, while Dick’s can be found in some smaller cities, you won’t find them in many small towns. In Colorado, all the Dick’s are along the I-25 corridor from Pueblo to Fort Collins...about150 miles long by about 50 miles wide. There isn’t single one outside of that fairly narrow band.

REI has a number of stores in the same corridor but they have 2 stores elsewhere in the state...one in Dillon and one Grand Junction.
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Old 05-25-20, 10:56 AM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
You’d have to live in a pretty deep cave to not know what Dick’s Sporting Goods is. They have almost 750 locations in the US. REI has just over 160. And, while Dick’s can be found in some smaller cities, you won’t find them in many small towns. In Colorado, all the Dick’s are along the I-25 corridor from Pueblo to Fort Collins...about150 miles long by about 50 miles wide. There isn’t single one outside of that fairly narrow band.

REI has a number of stores in the same corridor but they have 2 stores elsewhere in the state...one in Dillon and one Grand Junction.
Many do on here?
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Old 05-25-20, 03:21 PM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by StarBiker
Many do on here?
Never mind the poor wording but many, if not most people, on these forums know what Dick's Sporting Goods is. It's just not their first choice for bicycle related gear.
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Old 05-25-20, 03:32 PM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
Never mind the poor wording but many, if not most people, on these forums know what Dick's Sporting Goods is. It's just not their first choice for bicycle related gear.
I seldomly shop at Dick's Sporting Goods because I do most of my shopping online and their website normally doesn't come to mind. However, I did buy a bicycle item from them a month ago - 4 bottles of Finish Line chain lube (4 oz) for $5.99 each on clearance and they offered curbside pickup. Only made sense to grab them after a bike ride.
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Old 05-25-20, 03:42 PM
  #85  
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I've been an REI member for at least thirty years. It's changed a lot, but is still fundamentally a good outfit.

FWIW, my fave shop recently tore apart one of my bikes to send the frame in for a repaint, and the rebuild had a few issues. It happens.
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Old 05-25-20, 04:36 PM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by Pugs2xLove
I seldomly shop at Dick's Sporting Goods because I do most of my shopping online and their website normally doesn't come to mind. However, I did buy a bicycle item from them a month ago - 4 bottles of Finish Line chain lube (4 oz) for $5.99 each on clearance and they offered curbside pickup. Only made sense to grab them after a bike ride.
My point was people were comparing lower end chains to REI, like Walmart and I thought a better comparison of a lower end chain that sell's lower end, but not junk to be Dicks.

Now some folks on here have extrapolated out of this all kinds of things none of which I meant.

Reading, and paying attention do not necessarily go together.

And no, I am not picking on anybody

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Old 05-25-20, 05:14 PM
  #87  
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I'd buy a bike at Walmart (already did twice) before going to Dick's. This took place when I first got into biking. Now I wouldn't buy bikes from either stores.
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Old 05-25-20, 05:23 PM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by canklecat
And it's not really a co-op. There isn't actually a workshop for "members" to learn to do their own bike maintenance.
Originally Posted by Camilo
I think you don't understand that the general term "co-op" is broader than what you think.

Yep, there are different types of co-ops. We buy our electricity from a co-op, but we sure aren't doing workshops to learn how to maintain the power lines.
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Old 05-25-20, 05:39 PM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
You’d have to live in a pretty deep cave to not know what Dick’s Sporting Goods is. They have almost 750 locations in the US...

Oh man, now I feel really old. I remember when there was just one Dick's, and I was there when they moved to a new building next door!

With that said, I once bought a bike from there, 1997 maybe? It was a Mongoose. I got what I paid for, nothing more, nothing less.. Their selection is a step up from Target, Wal*Mart et. al, but I'd rather spend a few extra bones at REI (I have a DRT 1.2 in fact) or my local LBS (the spawn has a Trek Marlin 5). I prefer doing my own wrenching, but there's virtually no difference between my LBS and REI when it comes to service. REI can often get it turned around a hair faster, maybe? That's about all.
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Old 05-25-20, 06:05 PM
  #90  
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But I am curious, what does your LBS have like the ADV 3.1, or the Salsa Fargo Apex 1? I am curious......I have not seen anything like those bikes at a LBS for those prices. Maybe for the Salsa, but not the 3.1. Both are steel frames, and the Salsa will take a 27.5 wheel, although it's at least advertised as a 29.

And there is a difference with returns, and service depending on where you are which has been mentioned often, but every third poster ignores it?
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Old 05-25-20, 06:06 PM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
Yep, there are different types of co-ops. We buy our electricity from a co-op, but we sure aren't doing workshops to learn how to maintain the power lines.
You may have to start?
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Old 05-25-20, 06:56 PM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by StarBiker
You may have to start?
The power was out for two or three hours yesterday, so maybe it is time to learn some maintenance skills ...
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Old 05-25-20, 08:01 PM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
The power was out for two or three hours yesterday, so maybe it is time to learn some maintenance skills ...
43 years ago the neighbors in my neighborhood had to restore out power because BG&E was taking their old sweet time. Then the neighbors did restore the power.
This is not my last rant......
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Old 05-25-20, 08:05 PM
  #94  
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REI turned off our power and got my wife pregnant during the blackout.
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Old 05-25-20, 08:11 PM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by wgscott
REI turned off our power and got my wife pregnant during the blackout.
Walmart never would have done that.
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Old 05-25-20, 09:58 PM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by StarBiker
Many do on here?
Just because people hadn't agreed with you didnt mean they disagreed and it definitely didn't mean people aren't aware of the largest sporting goods company in the US.

We get it- you think REI is an apt comparison to Dick's. Its been noted.
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Old 05-25-20, 10:07 PM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by onyerleft
.... Beats a sharp poke on the eye. ....
I think you meant to say "beats a poke in the eye with a sharp stick." Geeze, get it right

Come to think of it, it's hard to imagine anything that wouldn't beat a poke in the eye of any type.
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Old 05-26-20, 08:20 AM
  #98  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
Just because people hadn't agreed with you didnt mean they disagreed and it definitely didn't mean people aren't aware of the largest sporting goods company in the US.

We get it- you think REI is an apt comparison to Dick's. Its been noted.
We? An apt comparison?

Well the sale ended yesterday. And I still have not spent a grand on a bike. Now if the one I want eventually gets down to seven I may.
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Old 05-26-20, 09:22 AM
  #99  
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Originally Posted by Tacoenthusiast
None of them are a real bike store, it's just a big box chain store
Originally Posted by veganbikes
REI generally does not have the greatest of bike departments.
REIs by me aren't LBS. That is a good thing. It means they actually have what I want to buy in stock and people who are capable of working on whatever isn't the latest and greatest hyperbike. If I need a random tool or accessory, I am far more likely to find it stocked at REI than a LBS. Same goes for a part that isn't for a current upper end drivetrain.

Originally Posted by wgscott
Unlike Walmart and box stores, they tend to be a bit over-priced. Also unlike Walmart and box stores, they sell quality stuff and back it up with an extremely generous return policy.
I agree on the overprice bit, BUT they run enough sales through the year that it takes care of itself. Not to mention the stupendously good deals that can be had at Garage Sales.

Originally Posted by Pugs2xLove
I'd buy a bike at Walmart (already did twice) before going to Dick's. This took place when I first got into biking. Now I wouldn't buy bikes from either stores.
I wouldn't. Not to say Dicks is great, but at least a lot of the options at Dicks would serve as a competent entry level bike. Can't say I've seen anything over the $150 or so mark at my local WalMart, and everything comes with ridiculous shocks.
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Old 05-26-20, 10:01 AM
  #100  
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Despite the ubiquity and fame of Dick's Sporting Goods, there are none in my state and I live in perhaps the outdoor activity capitol in the lower forty eight, Missoula, Montana. REI is not a "box store" but an outdoor speciality cooperative.
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