Why so much hate for Gatorskins?
09-02-20, 07:01 PM
#126
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Well... there's the name. My daughters went to Florida State University (the Seminoles) and University of Central Florida (the Knights), so we're not Gator fans.
Seriously, I've ridden Gatorskins and didn't hate them. They were a bit harsh, but I used them when I was doing a ride from Key Largo to Key West about six months after they had a hurricane that did a lot of damage to the Keys. It gave me piece of mind for the potential for fewer flats in an area that had some more broken glass and construction nails/screws potentially in the road.
Seriously, I've ridden Gatorskins and didn't hate them. They were a bit harsh, but I used them when I was doing a ride from Key Largo to Key West about six months after they had a hurricane that did a lot of damage to the Keys. It gave me piece of mind for the potential for fewer flats in an area that had some more broken glass and construction nails/screws potentially in the road.
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09-02-20, 07:17 PM
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Go Noles.
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09-02-20, 09:16 PM
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But the power required to overcome drag goes up with the cube of speed...
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09-02-20, 09:18 PM
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Basically what this all boils down to is this: Gatorskins are a very fast, supple, extremely well-handling, long-lasting tire with best-in-class flat protection. I know this from personal experience, and millions of other happy riders (some of whom reported in for this thread) know this as well. Of course, if you take that same, supple, silky yet strong feeling tire and over-inflate it, it is not going to perform as designed. People claiming that these are "slow" or "crappy" tires just don't know how to use them, but rather than admit their own faults, those people usually just trash talk their abused tires on the internet.
09-02-20, 09:19 PM
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This has been an interesting thead but to be fair BoraxKid never made that claim but by putting it in quotes you make it seem so.
.
.
09-02-20, 09:20 PM
#131
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So here's how I would handle it fellas -
• some poster makes a statement which I consider flat out wrong, I just can't agree with it.
• I address his statement with one of my own, a correct one of course because after all, I'm me.
• poster doubles down on his post, defends it, adds on to it and everything. He ain't impressed.
• I drop it. I don't continue to counter because it's a waste of my time and, of course, I have better and more important things to do. It doesn't matter if he's dead wrong (in my opinion). It doesn't matter if he's dead wrong in everybody's opinion. It's none of my business if he persists in being uninformed, I did the best that I could do.
* next I walk away, leave the thread, because I'm in danger of an infraction if I start calling names or harassing somebody. Plus the mods have given me plenty of warning, so I got no freaking excuse. I just find me a thread I like better.
Yep, this is what we recommend.
• some poster makes a statement which I consider flat out wrong, I just can't agree with it.
• I address his statement with one of my own, a correct one of course because after all, I'm me.
• poster doubles down on his post, defends it, adds on to it and everything. He ain't impressed.
• I drop it. I don't continue to counter because it's a waste of my time and, of course, I have better and more important things to do. It doesn't matter if he's dead wrong (in my opinion). It doesn't matter if he's dead wrong in everybody's opinion. It's none of my business if he persists in being uninformed, I did the best that I could do.
* next I walk away, leave the thread, because I'm in danger of an infraction if I start calling names or harassing somebody. Plus the mods have given me plenty of warning, so I got no freaking excuse. I just find me a thread I like better.
Yep, this is what we recommend.
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09-02-20, 09:25 PM
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I did wonder when I bought a bike with Gatorskins why that brand was chosen given that the shop is in the shadow of Doak Campell.
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09-02-20, 09:48 PM
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Word to the wise: If a person feels another poster is a troll, it's best to hit the report button, and not post about it.
FWIW, people pushed the hell out of some buttons here, and the poster that was targeted handled the incoming rather well. Kudos.
Again, the report button works. Please use it. mmk? thnks.
FWIW, people pushed the hell out of some buttons here, and the poster that was targeted handled the incoming rather well. Kudos.
Again, the report button works. Please use it. mmk? thnks.
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09-02-20, 10:07 PM
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That's not a good blanket statement. It is true for aerodynamic drag with follows a quadratic curve vs velocity but not most mechanical drags (chain, tire rubber, etc. which are usually linear vs speed. A linear drag will have a power curve of a quadratic vs speed. (This from a guy who studied how to calculate and separate out different aspects of drag to scale model test results to full sized. Granted, a long time ago but no of this has changed over the years.)
09-03-20, 10:11 AM
#135
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Wow, I really opened a can of worms here... Also, sorry for the typo in the title. Since none mentioned it, I guess you all know the edit function doesn't seem to allow you to fix the title line; I tried three times.
I read all replies, and in between chuckling, I've come away with a few things:
1) gators are relatively stiff and there are better riding tires out there for similar $
2) gators may not grip the pavement well in cold conditions
3) bike forum members are passionate about their tires!
I run my 700x28c tires at about 70psi, and I weigh about 155lbs. I routinely go about 45mph on some local hills, and often take a 90 degree corner in town at about 25-30 mph and feel secure cutting the corner pretty tight. I'll probably slow that down a bit now that its getting cooler out.
I'll likely try a different tire if I ever wear out the current gator, with about 1500 miles on it. It looks like it might last forever at this point. I do notice it's a bit harsh if I pump it to 80psi, but 70 seems fine. Thanks for your opinions.
I read all replies, and in between chuckling, I've come away with a few things:
1) gators are relatively stiff and there are better riding tires out there for similar $
2) gators may not grip the pavement well in cold conditions
3) bike forum members are passionate about their tires!
I run my 700x28c tires at about 70psi, and I weigh about 155lbs. I routinely go about 45mph on some local hills, and often take a 90 degree corner in town at about 25-30 mph and feel secure cutting the corner pretty tight. I'll probably slow that down a bit now that its getting cooler out.
I'll likely try a different tire if I ever wear out the current gator, with about 1500 miles on it. It looks like it might last forever at this point. I do notice it's a bit harsh if I pump it to 80psi, but 70 seems fine. Thanks for your opinions.
09-03-20, 09:21 PM
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Yeah, I'll say this about Gatorskins- it's hard to wear them out. 5000 miles, easily. And an old Gator that did ~5000 miles on the front wheel has been repurposed as my trainer tire for, I dunno, years. It's got an impressive flat profile now, but it hasn't worn through yet.
09-04-20, 04:44 AM
#137
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Wow, I really opened a can of worms here... Also, sorry for the typo in the title. Since none mentioned it, I guess you all know the edit function doesn't seem to allow you to fix the title line; I tried three times.
I read all replies, and in between chuckling, I've come away with a few things:
1) gators are relatively stiff and there are better riding tires out there for similar $
2) gators may not grip the pavement well in cold conditions
3) bike forum members are passionate about their tires!
I run my 700x28c tires at about 70psi, and I weigh about 155lbs. I routinely go about 45mph on some local hills, and often take a 90 degree corner in town at about 25-30 mph and feel secure cutting the corner pretty tight. I'll probably slow that down a bit now that its getting cooler out.
I'll likely try a different tire if I ever wear out the current gator, with about 1500 miles on it. It looks like it might last forever at this point. I do notice it's a bit harsh if I pump it to 80psi, but 70 seems fine. Thanks for your opinions.
I read all replies, and in between chuckling, I've come away with a few things:
1) gators are relatively stiff and there are better riding tires out there for similar $
2) gators may not grip the pavement well in cold conditions
3) bike forum members are passionate about their tires!
I run my 700x28c tires at about 70psi, and I weigh about 155lbs. I routinely go about 45mph on some local hills, and often take a 90 degree corner in town at about 25-30 mph and feel secure cutting the corner pretty tight. I'll probably slow that down a bit now that its getting cooler out.
I'll likely try a different tire if I ever wear out the current gator, with about 1500 miles on it. It looks like it might last forever at this point. I do notice it's a bit harsh if I pump it to 80psi, but 70 seems fine. Thanks for your opinions.
09-04-20, 04:48 AM
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09-04-20, 08:48 AM
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09-04-20, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoraxKid View Post
Basically what this all boils down to is this: Gatorskins are a very fast, supple, extremely well-handling, long-lasting tire with best-in-class flat protection
Wut?
So, just because this whole thread hasn't already gone on long enough.. Let's try a rephrased question for discussion:
"What other road tires are out there, that offer the same or better flat protection of a Gatorskin, but are more supple, better handling, and are as long-lasting?"
Originally Posted by BoraxKid View Post
Basically what this all boils down to is this: Gatorskins are a very fast, supple, extremely well-handling, long-lasting tire with best-in-class flat protection
Wut?
So, just because this whole thread hasn't already gone on long enough.. Let's try a rephrased question for discussion:
"What other road tires are out there, that offer the same or better flat protection of a Gatorskin, but are more supple, better handling, and are as long-lasting?"
09-04-20, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoraxKid View Post
Basically what this all boils down to is this: Gatorskins are a very fast, supple, extremely well-handling, long-lasting tire with best-in-class flat protection
Wut?
So, just because this whole thread hasn't already gone on long enough.. Let's try a rephrased question for discussion:
"What other road tires are out there, that offer the same or better flat protection of a Gatorskin, but are more supple, better handling, and are as long-lasting?"
Originally Posted by BoraxKid View Post
Basically what this all boils down to is this: Gatorskins are a very fast, supple, extremely well-handling, long-lasting tire with best-in-class flat protection
Wut?
So, just because this whole thread hasn't already gone on long enough.. Let's try a rephrased question for discussion:
"What other road tires are out there, that offer the same or better flat protection of a Gatorskin, but are more supple, better handling, and are as long-lasting?"
09-04-20, 02:47 PM
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I believe a lot of comes down to what you want to get out of your tire. Some people want durability and longevity. Everything else is matters much less to them. I use Gatorskins in the winter, after the city starts sanding the roads. I take them of when the road conditions improve.
09-04-20, 03:38 PM
#144
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“Same or better” flat protection is hard to quantify. I’ve been a vocal supporter of my Michelin Power Protection+ tired, and with inspecting them after rides they’ve never flatted me (knock on wood). Others have brought up the 4Season. Part of the issue is that Gatorskin fans often believe that they are the most durable, and that no amount of reduced durability can possibly be acceptable, and so discussions go nowhere. That’s also why Gatorskins get most of the stick here. There isn’t similar enthusiasm for the Armadillos, for example.
Of course brr.com is not the end-all-be-all of tire testing, but maybe we can at least say there are even worse choices you could make for tires than Gatorskins? The graphic below shows not the Power Protection, but rather the Mich Power All Season (for some reason BRR doesn't have the "Protection" model tested) and Schwalbe Durano Plus. In a nutshell, the Michelin and Schwalbe offer higher rolling resistance, worse protection, they also weigh more and appear to cost more at most e-tailers. fwiw, the Durano is also about 150 grams heavier than the Gatorskin.
09-04-20, 04:05 PM
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At the same time, in an ironic kind of way, flat protection could be one the easiest things any testing organization can quantify -- at least easier than more nebulous things like 'cornering ability', 'handling'... even rolling resistance/speed is very dependent on inflation amount and road surface (ie. it can be tested but it's not nearly as easy to do as looking at what can poke holes in a tire).
Of course brr.com is not the end-all-be-all of tire testing, but maybe we can at least say there are even worse choices you could make for tires than Gatorskins? The graphic below shows not the Power Protection, but rather the Mich Power All Season (for some reason BRR doesn't have the "Protection" model tested) and Schwalbe Durano Plus. In a nutshell, the Michelin and Schwalbe offer higher rolling resistance, worse protection, they also weigh more and appear to cost more at most e-tailers. fwiw, the Durano is also about 150 grams heavier than the Gatorskin.
Of course brr.com is not the end-all-be-all of tire testing, but maybe we can at least say there are even worse choices you could make for tires than Gatorskins? The graphic below shows not the Power Protection, but rather the Mich Power All Season (for some reason BRR doesn't have the "Protection" model tested) and Schwalbe Durano Plus. In a nutshell, the Michelin and Schwalbe offer higher rolling resistance, worse protection, they also weigh more and appear to cost more at most e-tailers. fwiw, the Durano is also about 150 grams heavier than the Gatorskin.
Maybe? The fans, like I said, are not nearly as vocal. Much of the reason for the scorn of Gatorskins is the hypervocal fans. And that Michelin misses both of the reasons I like the Protection+: it has 110tpi and bead-to-bead aramid, not 55/60 and crown-only protection. It is, in fact, the only such tire I've found.
An the BRR puncture test is also based strictly on pins, which are longer and thinner than glass and flints. It's a nice concept for testing, and I'm certainly not saying it's a biased test, but running over a thumbtack is death for any tire. I'm much more interested in how they survive over glass. How do we test that? I don't know, but the PP+ has handled it perfectly in my usage.
09-04-20, 04:14 PM
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Power All Season
Power Protection+
Power Protection+
09-04-20, 04:34 PM
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09-04-20, 04:42 PM
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And for further thought, the Michelin Power Gravel is more similar in construction to the Power Protection+ (120tpi, bead-to-bead protek) and does well in BRR's testing (by gravel tire standards). I'd suspect that that's much more relevant for extrapolating the Protection+. It also has excellent flat resistance in their testing.
09-04-20, 04:58 PM
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Okay, you convinced me. I will give Michelin a try next time on my Peloton. I had a set of Michelin Sport Radials on my sports coupe and they lasted 80K miles and still had some mileage left on them. If their bike tires are similar to their sports car tires, they must be worth a try.
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09-05-20, 12:52 PM
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I was in a bike shop today and they had some Gatorskins (among others) in stock. I felt the Gator rubber, and it was *quite* sticky. It felt identical to the Ultra Sport. They had an old non-addix Pro One on display and the Pro One felt way, way harder than the Gatorskin.
So at least one of the following must be true:
1) continental changed the Gatorksin compound to something *way* softer (my current assumption)
2) The Gatorskins I had hardened up rapidly. Mine basically felt like plastic when I took them off (within about 6 months, stored indoors). I don't remember how they felt when new - but I definitely don't remember them being that soft.
3) I am crazy and the Gatorskins have always been a grippy tire with a pretty soft compound, and any memory I have of "plasticky" gators is just my delusion.
4) I am stupid and the Gators I felt in the bike shop today are actually quite hard and my sense of touch is crappy.
Any thoughts?
So at least one of the following must be true:
1) continental changed the Gatorksin compound to something *way* softer (my current assumption)
2) The Gatorskins I had hardened up rapidly. Mine basically felt like plastic when I took them off (within about 6 months, stored indoors). I don't remember how they felt when new - but I definitely don't remember them being that soft.
3) I am crazy and the Gatorskins have always been a grippy tire with a pretty soft compound, and any memory I have of "plasticky" gators is just my delusion.
4) I am stupid and the Gators I felt in the bike shop today are actually quite hard and my sense of touch is crappy.
Any thoughts?
