merziac

No worries, couldn't agree more, hence the big blah, blah, blah here and yeah my wording came out wrong with me not knowing how to fix the title after I gacked it but we're getting our point across I think, we'll see if it works out.

By the time I realized I should have deleted the post and started over, it was already taking on a life of its own, they'll probably use the confusion against us in the end.

Again, completely agree on all points and think I said as much at least once on each along the way.

clubman 

We have to keep the our moderators at the top of mind as we go through this. If I were a mod, I'd be disappointed by caustic undertones of some posts and not just from these main threads.
A little context, our mods had to invest a lot of volunteer work into managing a P&R thread during the most volatile political NA environment in modern history and then added a Covid thread just to make things really relaxed. A lot of great discussions were drowned out by bad noise and caused a forum shut down, understandably. But when enough reasonable voices talked to them, they brought it back, kudos.
Yet they're still getting grief on a minor addition to sub-forums. We don't have a procedure for this do we?
Perhaps asking that the original threads to be put back and see if the forum gets an audience, will appease most everyone?
Siu Blue Wind?

cudak888 

The disagreement of most members was fairly levelheaded, initially - especially when Siu mentioned that it the additional forum wasn't cast in stone. It seemed as if there was an actual chance it would be put to a more democratic poll or vote amongst the forum.

But that didn't happen either. Siu never replied to those who suggested perhaps giving it some more thought, the posts began to get moved, and most of us then realized there wouldn't be any sort of input from the people who participate in these forums in the first place. That, I believe is why the attitude has become a lot more caustic since.

Plus, the thread title "We've got a present for you" tends to be a bit insulting, given how the majority of members here feel it breaks up the inclusivity of the C&V community.

-Kurt

merziac

Agreed, however I was asked and tried to express my self as diplomatically as I could with no results that I could see, and yes I did express appreciation for the work the mods put in here despite it being a thankless job, they have to have a very steeled constitution.

I believe we did ask, but maybe not directly enough, still would have hoped that by now enough discussion such as it is has gone on to get something else in play.

Another thing is I and plenty of others seem to not view this as a minor thing, stripping at least two spirited discussion generating threads from the pot is more than a little unsettling, especially when done with little to no warning, discussion, etc.

clubman 

Yeah I think some early comments took the train off the tracks. We should take a breath, get some feedback and ask the questions that matter, like who do I have to give nos parts to to get this sorted out.
Wait for it....

veganbikes

I know for a fact that at least 10000 dead people voted in this pole and personally saw Siu Blue Wind throwing ballots into the trash while accepting bags with dollars signs on them from a man who looked suspiciously like Hillary Clinton's Half Brother. I'm not saying it was a directly stolen poll that is equivocally provable with real facts that are truly real and we have thousands upon thousands of pages of sworn testimony of people who were out of the country at the time but had a strong feeling that they knew what was going on, but you do the math. I am also not saying that the Briftocrats have a secret underground lair underneath a Del Taco where they do weird sex acts with NOS Michelin Mud tires but we don't know?! Pound Sign: Bikeghazi, Pound Sign: StoptheSteel.

CliffordK

Ok, here is the DS view of the upgraded wheel.

It is normally referred to as the "Wheel that shall not be mentioned"... to the point that most people on this forum believe that it doesn't, or can't exist.

Be warned, there have been many threads that have been locked because of this. I fully expect at least 47 people who voted demanding a revote (poll to have a poll)... for a permaban from C&V.




And the RS10 photo that was next to the yellow field.

Mad Honk 

Well Folks,
I have held my tongue a bit on this, but here is my take. I came to BF as a new member to check out some vintage bikes and get a valuation on a few of them. I have made comments in other threads like mechanics and I am pretty happy with the forum as is. However if changes need to be made, I will abide by them. I for one am happy to just have a place to deal with like minded folks. I am also in the camp of an inclusive group for everyone. I am sure there have been more than one person here in C&V that has been the beneficiary of my belief that I can help more people ride bikes that they like and want to ride. I am a member of what used to be the LAW but is now the League of American Bicyclists that advocates for more bicycle riders. The big tent idea is for me a better overall way to see the issue. I suspect if a special sub forum for brifter / 6-8 speed bikes comes to life it will be like the BMX thread that seems to have very little traffic. It will keep some vintage folks from visiting unless they are interested in this style of bike. A lot of folks like my self pick and choose among the threads in C&V that they frequent. My vote is to leave the C&V as is and let the poster create the threads about what they are asking or showing. I somehow think we are all adult enough to view what we want from all of the offerings in C&V. Smiles, MH

CliffordK

The new subforum already exists.

It was announced a few days ago.

It isn't exactly a subforum like C&V Sales that is listed at the top of the main C&V page.

Some forum layouts allow pass-through to child forums. So, when browsing one level, one also sees all the threads in the next layer down. Bike Forums does not.

Not having the pass-through of child forums to parent forums means that child forums like Vehicular Cycling get almost completely ignored. Only 3 threads created/commented on in the last year (only one commented on this year).

Or, perhaps people have just lost interest in an independent concept of VC separate from safety.

I presume as an "adult" forum, this brifter forum will get more interest than BMX, but I don't foresee any huge gains from having it independent either.

I've had troubles classifying some of the topics I've started because they crossed several subforums.
For example:
Classic & Vintage
Commuting
Living Car Free
Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling
Road Cycling
Touring
Utility Cycling
Oh, and
Pacific Northwest

You may ask how one could possibly have a topic that would span 8 different subforums.

Consider this photo.


This was during my "car-free" years recently. I was doing about a 150 mile "commute" to Portland. Pulling a trailer. A little sight seeing on the way. But, overall about a 150 mile SLAM long hard one day ride (and back a few days later). Photo was taken at about the halfway point. And it was generally ridden along the "Willamette Valley Scenic Bikeway".

(Hopefully I won't get more complaints about not having my bike pointed into the bushes).

bark_eater 

At least your forks straight.

tricky 

Haha! Me too! I was confused. I thought Yes meant we should have an official poll. Now I want to change to no! Am I a hanging chad?

Bianchi84

Keep things the way they were; there is enough crossover to keep most people happy and informed

tricky 

IMO, your poll was more confusing than the reasoning for the subforum. Man, this internet thing is complicated. Can I change my vote?

merziac

I know, I know, I made the poll for a poll as a joke in the other thread then screwed up when I started this thread. Was going to delete and start over but this had already taken off.

clubman 

Had to look up 'hanging chad'...learn something every day. Where I'm from, we still put X's in circles with a pencil. Works fine.

tricky 

Just giving you a hard time. IMO, the poll is still working as intended!

3alarmer 

SurferRosa

I enjoyed that google search's images tab.


.

squirtdad

in a similar vein: where does this leave my 85 team miyata with 105 5800 11speed?

seriously seeing a wide range of bikes in a single forum is much more fun and educational for me..... even those with carrbon forks and fugly threadless stems

Hajo

I voted in favor off this idea. Not only were the early brifters introduced late '80 I presume, also I own 5 vintage bikes at the moment, 4 of which have those brifters. Why not? An early carbon frame is also considered a classic, why not something that has been around for at least 30+ years? So let there be light and let us try such a (sub) forum.

merziac

Agreed, it leaves you right here as always, see post #26.

CliffordK

Man, it is tough when everything that was around when one was a kid is considered archaic, and the stuff that was new and cutting edge in teen and young adult years is now vintage.

merziac

So not sure what you're saying here, the bikes you call out should stay here, a new forum, sub forum, whatever is a dilution of the great thing we have here and as such should stay here to further the discussion of them right here as they always have.

This thread title is a little confusing but,

A no vote, no sub, forum.

A yes vote, yes sub, forum.

See post #26.

droppedandlost 

This is all a ploy by Big Brifter (Sh-, SR-, Ca-) to undermine the C&V community so we will quit repairing/rebuilding our bikes and just buy all new gear.

SJX426 

[QUOTE=CliffordK;22091170]
Consider this photo.
/QUOTE]

Canby Ferry!!!! Good to know it still exists. My former boss lives near there.