gauvins

Starting to plan for a trip next spring, where we'll probably have to carry a significant supply of drinking water. I'd say something like 10L in addition to 2x2 bottles (my wife and I). I'd prefer to have the water on my bike.

How would you go about it?

Currently leaning towards purchasing 2x6L MSR Dromedary, stored at the bottom of panniers (one bladder per bag to maintain balance). OR 1x10L secured on top of the rear rack, if it can be reasonably done.

It would also be possible to purchase bottled water and save something like 60$ on bladders that will rarely be used afterwards.

ricrunner

I am asking the same question as well. Have used the S2S wine bladders 10 litre sitting on top of each other on rear rack, but they couldn't handle rubbing inside of their outer covers on bad corrugations in Outback OZ. Their must be something better, but not overly expensive in this size?

ricrunner

_S2S> Sea To Summit.

mev

When I cycled around Australia, I used a rough guideline of 1 liter per 20km plus 2 liter for an overnight*. The longest gap I crossed was 280 km so this was 16 liters. More commonly, I carried ~8-9 liters.

Here was the rough "loading sequence" I used to get there (starting with #1 and going down the list as far as necessary):
1. Bike bottles: 2l
2. CamelBak: 3l
3. One water bottle in each rear pannier: 2l
4. CamelBak second bladder: 3l
5. Sea to Summit bag: 4l
6. Extra bottles stashed in panniers: 2l

Cycling across Russia, we had a 10l water bladder that we used for shorter distances, e.g. fill up at a village and cycle 10km down the road to camp. We put the bladder across the rear panniers.

For me the method used depends a bit on how far I expect to carry water. If it is more of a continuous longer ride, then I prefer my Australia method of a lot of smaller bottles. If I'm carrying for a shorter distance then my Russia method of mostly a single large bladder across the rear rack can work too.

(*) Guideline obviously depends on weather and other conditions. On recent ride with occasional two/three day gaps in Argentina, I used significantly less water than in Australia.

ricrunner

I need at least 15 litres for my tours in Australia as I am carrying a dog in a trailer which can only really fit said dog. Most of my water goes on top of gear on rear racks, plus 2 litres in dedicated pannier bottle holders up front, 2 750 ml in two bottle cages on main triangle, plus 2 more 600ml in other holders on rear panniers. The dog drinks much more water than me. And when taking the dog I only travel in the cooler months as water is harder to find in OZ in warmer months. That is why I am also asking about better bulk water containers as well.

djb

Mev, wanted to say that it's very useful to get your experienced guideline here for those of us who haven't gone through such long distances without access to water.
It's very helpful to see a trusted guideline and explanation of different carrying methods.

In fact I will print this out and put it with my hard copies of trip list stuff as a reminder and to make me think of water need expectations.

Gauv, from my little experience, I would certainly agree on multiple smaller containers for longer riding. Using a rack pack on top of my rear panniers was useful in that I found putting more bulky lighter items in it freed up space in panniers to put heavier water bottles and helping keeping the center of gravity lower-- which I noticed as helping to keep the wobbly aspect on check.

staehpj1

I try to avoid going a lot longer than necessary without water, so I don't go off road where there is no water to filter for more than two days. If it gets to the point where I will need to carry three or more days of water whether for bike touring, bikepacking, or backpacking, I start to rethink the trip.

That said I have fairly often had to go a full 24 hours or a little more with no water resupply. For me that is generally only a day here or there on a longer trip.

Given my usage... I find that it makes sense to have two bottles on the frame maybe a small bladder. Additional capacity is added in the form of scrounged sport drink or bottled water bottles. I add capacity as needed and discard as soon as it is not needed. I carry the extra either in my baggage, in a little backpack (either my 2.5 oz s2s or my 12 oz Flash 18), or even in jersey pockets. I try to use the water stored in the least comfortable places first, so when I had a gallon of water in jersey pockets I used that up first.

That all has worked well for me since even on a coast to coast trip there would be only a few days where water wasn't available at least once during the day, even on the Southern Tier.

andrewclaus

One more vote for multiple smaller containers. I'm a fan of Platypus bladders.

Replace the bike bottles in the cages with 1.0 or 1.5 L soda bottles. It'll give you more capacity with less empty weight, and zero cost. I re-bent my cages slightly, 2 mm or so, for perfect fit. I have rear pockets in my panniers that'll each carry another such bottle. Those will last months, and replacements can be found for free along nearly every roadside, or at markets, full of cold drinks.

I've only carried half what you're planning, so my ideas end there.

CliffordK

Are you going to be near rivers where you can replenish (and filter or treat the water)?

10L is about 2 to 3 gallons.

I was thinking about single water jugs, but perhaps the easiest would be to just drop two milk jugs into the bottom of your panniers. Then add a couple of small quart water bottles if needed.

saddlesores

i started off with a 2-gallon square collapsible water carrier (from campmor?)
stowed in the bob trailer for travel around new zealand. found it cumbersome
to deal with. also had the "what if" .....your one container leaks...

gave it away before the flight to australia. there i used 10 cheap and easily
replaceable 2L soda bottles. so 20 liters, plus a couple large bottles in cages
for up to 250 miles with no water in 105 degree fahrenheit.

you can get cheap ($5) 2L bladder bags on ebay. might be able to fit a couple
of those in a frame bag on each bike if no room in panniers.

Tourist in MSN

I have not had to carry as much as you, but I have carried the 2 liter soda pop bottles for water. When I was done with them they went into the recycle bin instead of carrying them home. They are pretty durable and weigh almost nothing.

On my bike I use one liter water bottles. In USA there is a bottled water brand Smart Water that comes in 1 liter bottles, they fit a normal cage very nicely. I do not know if that brand is available in Canada or not. You could put a piece of paper around a water bottle and mark on that paper where the bottle circumference is, then stick that paper into your wallet. Then in the store if you see a 1 liter size water bottle, you could wrap that paper around the bottle to see if it is the right circumference to fit in a cage.

You can add a bottle cage under the downtube too. Decades ago all water bottles were strapped onto frames, nobody had braze on cage mounts. You can use hose clamps to clamp a cage below. Or if you want something that looks nicer, Velo Orange makes the straps. Not all cages will work with these straps, so buy the straps first. I added a cage below my downtube on my rando bike with these straps.
https://velo-orange.com/products/bottle-cage-clamp

I use a velcro strap to hold my bottle that is under my downtube in place, I do not want the bottle to hit my fender that could cause a steering problem.

If I was going to carry that much water, I would use a frame bag to carry some of it, you lose one or two frame cages but you gain more volume. Plus the weight is centered on the frame this way and does not consume pannier volume.

djb

gauvins, I also bought two Platypus bladders, I got the smaller 2 litre ones. When you look at various options in stores, the ones like the MSR or the Ortlieb ones (which I never found in stores, only saw online) are much tougher and would survive better strapped onto the top of a rack or panniers, but I figured for what I might need, the platypus ones are very small, very light, and I also reasoned that putting one each into a pannier would be more balanced, and if not put up against hard or sharp objects, that they would be tough enough.

the nice thing is that they are so light and fold up rather small, I never worried about carrying them , even if I ended up never using them. Im still glad I took them, and as you say, its easy to buy a number of 1.5 litre disposable bottles, which can be reused of course.

Caretaker

I cycled across Spain in June of 2016 where the afternoon temperatures around Toledo were 37c. I've been checking photos of the trip and there's only one normal sized bottle on each bike. But then we started riding about 7am each day and finished not later than 2pm.
We just refilled along the way in bars etc.
Can't see the need for more than 2 bottles per bike if as the OP states the tour is going to be in Spring.

fietsbob

1st time I ever heard of the extrawheel trailers was reading it being used to carry several gallons of water

to follow an old cattle driving road in remote Australian outback, where there was no water to be had...

rider used a fat bike and a 3rd fat bike wheel on the trailer..

reppans

Self-supported camping I tend to use a combination of Smart Water bottles, and Sawyer/Evernew bladders since they all use the same cap threads and are only an 1-2oz in 1-2L sizes. Water is usually plentiful for me, so bladders tend to stay rolled up most of the day, and are filled just before wild camping (for shower, dinner, B'fast).

If I had to carry all my water through desert riding, then the MSR dromedaries are bomb-proof, but mine do impart a plastic taste to the water... not sure if they've fixed that, mine are rather old. Nalgene Cantene bladders (96oz size) are another favorite as I've always found wide-mouths easier to live with (fill/clean/dry) and totally trust their caps for being leakproof. However, all these lightweight plastic bladders eventually fail - they all develop permanent creases somewhere that eventually delaminates the layers and results in leaking.

escii_35

For me, it comes down to the following.

Four bags or two bags.

With four bags there is enough room for 11L composed of 1-1.5L containers situated in the holders, top of rack and inside rear bag.

Two bags... I -need- to figure out a solution.

I love rolling with only two bags but water and wet item storage is a problem.

ricrunner

Thanks guys, I do serious distances in the outback, I do carry a Sawyer filter as well but water is few and far between out there, looks like it is multiple containers as per usual. I was given an 2 lt camel back for xmas, I am not sure about carrying it on my back for big distances but it could be carried on frame some where. I will look for Msr bladders and also Platypus. The only thing with these is Outdoor stores in my area don't carry them, and I would prefer to see before I buy as apposed to buying online.

Aushiker

Keeping mind my touring is in Western Australia so even in winter (more our touring season in the southern half) water is a problem. I have carried up to 35 litres but on my latest little sojourn I had to carry water for three days at a time. As this was on my fatbike, my Salsa Mukluk I had to add a rack to the bike to use as a base for the additional water.



This is my setup for the ride. You can see the rack, a Salsa Alternator 170 which is rated for 15 kg. On the top of the rack is an Ortlieb Water Bag which holds 10 litres.

On the down tube I have another 1.5 litres and inside the frame bag I had a 1.5 litre Evernew bladder and another 1.5 soda bottle. The balance was meant to be in a one litre Zefal water bottle on the top-tube but I left it at home by mistake so resorted to a 750 ml bottle that I purchased locally.

The water bag carried pretty well (I did have to do a bit of adjusting most days to get it right) but then I was riding rough 4WD tracks and beaches a lot of the time. On the road sections it carried well.



For curiosity sake this is my setup with the Surly Long Haul Trucker and Extrawheel Voyager trailer for carrying a max of 35 litres and 20 days food.

MarcusT

I am a cheap SOB and do not like spend big $ for something simple as water carriers. I have discovered that Coca Cola bottles (2 L) are the most robust of the plastic disposables. The mineral water bottles tend to be more delicate.

J.Higgins 

It also stands to reason that you could buy many new coke bottles over time as they wear out before you come close to the purchase price of a big fancy bladder. I'd rather carry a Smartwater bottle than any fancy bike water bottle that I've had to date, and I've bought dozens. I have a huge tote full of them. The simple plastic store-bought spring-water bottle wins every time. I'm not speaking of the springwater bottles that krinkle when you grab it - I'm speaking of the ones that have a substantial durability and heft. Smooth sides and strong, like an Aquafina or Dasani bottle, my favorite being the Smartwater bottle.

Aushiker

I have carried 35 litres ... that would something like 23 to 28 plastic bottles depending on size. Somehow that does not sound to practical to me or even actually realistically possible.

I find it much smarter to be flexible with my choices; sometimes it is PET bottles (Coke or the like), sometimes it is a "fancy bladder" or three and sometimes as per my last ride it was a combination of "fancy bladders" and bottles. In fact on my last ride I couldn't have carried my water in PET bottles period (it would have required something like 7 to 8 bottles). So instead of not going on the ride I took a "fancy bladder."

Personally I prefer to be flexible in my approach and take the most practical approach given the ride.

Oh BTW I have in the past, once only, carried 15 litres in what was then the largest PET bottle available ... 1.25l. I only did it one ride. I brought a "fancy bladder" after that. Carrying two weeks of food, gear for camping out every night and the water in something like 12 bottles in four panniers was a pain in packing, finding space and overall logistics. Plus I still had to get rid of all most of that plastic at the earliest opportunity to just give me some space back.

Tourist in MSN

Or maybe boxed wine bladders?

The bladders from 5 liter wine boxes, it would take a long time to accumulate 35 liters worth of capacity. Or, if you were in a hurry that would be one heck of a hangover.

Aushiker

... I have tried them in the past in my bushwalking days but could never come up with a way to get the wine taste out of the water [nor for that matter how to cope with cheap wine ] but if you or anyone else has ideas to remove the taste I am all ears for sure ...

The advantage but, with my Ortlieb "fancy bladder" and maybe others is that they have handles or tie down straps. Maybe not an issue so much with panniers but still handy for hanging the bladder or securing them to a rack.

Not a great photo but the bladder is hanging of the saddle on the bike. Made accessing the water easy.

staehpj1

Comments from folks who travel across Australia and other dry places make me wonder what that is like. When it comes down to it, I guess i am most likely to just scratch those places off my to do list. If I lived there I might feel differently.

Maybe I am just lucky to have water generally available fairly frequently where I tour or maybe I just choose those places because I am too lazy to haul a lot of water. But my preference is to avoid carrying much more than 24 hours worth of water at any point on any trip if at all possible. Even then when I need much water I tend to make cooking and hygiene decisions that require as little water as possible for those days.

Road touring in the US, even on coast to coast routes, it seems typical to only have a one or two short sections where much extra is needed, so I like to just scrounge extra plastic bottles for those short sections and recycle or discard them when done with that section. When I am going off road and will be away from towns multiple days, I typically choose destinations where I can filter water as I go.

As I get older I also get lazier about how much I am willing to carry whether it is on my bike or on my back backpacking. I have gotten to the point where I will go to great lengths to cache food and/or water rather than carry very much at a time. My limit has become something like 24 hours of water and for backpacking maybe 4 or 5 days of food at a time. On the bike I try to keep it to no more than a couple days of food at a time. It isn't that I can't carry more, I just enjoy being relatively unencumbered.

chrisx

Take a look at the 4 water bottles on the fork

note that this Salsa bottle cage can be attached to the bike with hose clamps.

4 liters of water on the fork works better than expected.
This home made frame bag, I cut to hold 2, 2.5 liter water bottles. I have another frame bag that holds a 4 liter MSR Dromedary. I have seen others with larger water bags in their frame bag. Note the 40 ounce water bottle on the down tube, and the bottle cage at the front of the triangle. I can carry 7 liters in this way.


Water on the rear rack is out of balance. The bike rides better with the heavy stuff in the triangle. Put 5 liters of water on your rear rack, ride around for a while, switch the 5 liters to the triangle, you will notice that the bike rides better.