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Klein Built Cannondale??

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Klein Built Cannondale??

Old 01-16-20, 08:24 AM
  #1  
Ronno6
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Klein Built Cannondale??

Anybody seen this??
https://www.ebay.com/itm/283388397210

Klein built a "prototype" for Cannondale?
I can't believe it for a second..............Gary Klein sued Cannondale over patent infringement.
So, why would he build them a "prototype?"

I have inquired as to a serial # on this bike.
ST frames/bikes emerged in 1983,
The SR geometry frames didn't hit the market til '85

I own an '85 with the same paint and decals as the one in the auction.

We'll see.........
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Old 01-16-20, 08:32 AM
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holy damage and sloppy repairs Batman!
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Old 01-16-20, 08:34 AM
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Old 01-16-20, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by hazetguy View Post
holy damage and sloppy repairs Batman!
The owner could have just sent it back to Klein for repair on such an historic piece...........
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Old 01-16-20, 08:48 AM
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The bar tape...

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Old 01-16-20, 10:02 AM
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Check their prices; everything is priced as if it were extremely desirable. Holy usury, Batman!
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Old 01-16-20, 10:18 AM
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Hard Pass
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Old 01-16-20, 10:32 AM
  #8  
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I think you meant to post in the Wacky World of Craigslist and EBay ads thread!
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Old 01-16-20, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Ronno6 View Post
Anybody seen this??
https://www.ebay.com/itm/283388397210

Klein built a "prototype" for Cannondale?
I can't believe it for a second..............Gary Klein sued Cannondale over patent infringement.
So, why would he build them a "prototype?"

I have inquired as to a serial # on this bike.
ST frames/bikes emerged in 1983,
The SR geometry frames didn't hit the market til '85

I own an '85 with the same paint and decals as the one in the auction.

We'll see.........
Yeah, sounds like misinformation. This would be quite a historic revelation, if true. I don't ever recall hearing anything close to this BITD.

No model number=warranty frame; silver fork=crash damage. It doesn't look much like a prototype, but a production item.
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Old 01-16-20, 11:10 AM
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Man, those seat stays are just scary! Doesn't ebay have rules about selling unsafe items. I never mess with ebay, so not familiar. 🤔
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Old 01-16-20, 11:14 AM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by 2old View Post
Check their prices; everything is priced as if it were extremely desirable. Holy usury, Batman!
Kind of like BBC
https://budgetbicyclectr.com/vintage...-for-sale.html
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Old 01-16-20, 11:19 AM
  #12  
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I wonder if this is indeed a Klein built bike intended either as one of bikes Klein would build for Cannondale (like Giant does now for the rest of the world) or to interest Cannondale in paying for the rights to the patents. Perhaps Cannondale, after taking a few spins on that bike, decided to just make the bikes and turn their back on Klein.

That bike sure looks like a Klein of the time. I never owned one but I regularly stopped in at Open Air Cycling in Boston when I was back east to see my folks. They carried Kleins from the late '70s until they closed. I regularly saw the newest Kleins for years before I ever saw or heard of a Cannondale.

Fun bit: I took a spin on a Klein in 1976, Gary Klein showed up at an NEBC Thursday night club race and encouraged us all to do so. I knew immediately that bike was going to change the cycling world. When Cannondale claimed their bike was something new 5-6 years later, I just shook my head. "Yes, but it wasn't your idea."

Edit: as I recall, not all Kleins had matching paint on their forks. PRobably to emphasis the frame was of a different material. (Proceeding the carbon forks on aluminum and steel bikes by a decade or so.) That fork doesn't strike my memory as being either "wrong" or a replacement.

Ben

Last edited by 79pmooney; 01-16-20 at 11:23 AM.
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Old 01-16-20, 11:28 AM
  #13  
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Originally Posted by stardognine View Post
Man, those seat stays are just scary! Doesn't ebay have rules about selling unsafe items. I never mess with ebay, so not familiar. 🤔
Racing geometry..."really" shortened wheel-base at the RS rather than curving the ST., sweet!
Ben
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Old 01-16-20, 11:37 AM
  #14  
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.
...I live not too far from Lincoln, CA, and I never heard of this guy before. There are a lot of pretty nice Cannondale's locally at bargain prices these days, so it's difficult to understand why anyone would bother to attempt to sell this one given its precarious rear end arrangements. Sorry, but I cannot contribute anything of value on whether it was made by Klein.
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Old 01-16-20, 11:51 AM
  #15  
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Editorial Comment On Sellers

Can you say BULL PUCKY?

Some eBay sellers who don't know, or weren't there, frequently guess or "embroider" information in their listings!

A lot of them are "pickers", yard sailors or pawn shops. Folks figuring on making a fast buck flipping stuff. This seller's handle is "California Bike Pickers" that should tell you a lot....

We sold Klein frames back in the mid 70's and had some of the first ones to hit the market so we knew a lot of the developmental history. Cannodale frames were contemporaries of Klein and maybe came a little later.

The one thing that I remember was that the Klein frames were BRUTALLY STIFF! Some of the early ones had boron carbide??? fibers epoxied to the bottom bracket area to increase stiffness.

It's been almost 45 years and I never cared much for the oversized aluminum frames so I might be wrong about this but the weld beads on the early Kleins were not smoothed so they looked crude.

I'm always suspicious of resprays on eBay and CL. Paint can hide a multitude of sins.

With the exception of work done by recognized restorers like Cycleart, Brian Bayless and so on, bikes that have been repainted always send up a red flag for me if I can't inspect them in person.

Just like frames and bikes that don't have the original fork! WHY?

What happened to the fork that resulted in replacement?

BTW, I think that the replacement fork is from a Vitus frame???

The welding on the seat stays looks really cobby like it was done by an amateur!

Caveat emptor!



verktyg

ADDENDUM:

Took a close look at the frame in question... It appears that someone put indentations into the chain stays for crank arm clearance rather than install a wider BB spindle. Prime area for failure, especially in aluminum!

Fine example of the work of a ham fisted hammer mechanic!


.
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Old 01-16-20, 12:03 PM
  #16  
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My Cycleart repaint with a steel fork.

...even with the touring model wheelbase and stay length, it's a little stiff unless you max out the tyre widths.



There are a couple of genuinely bargain priced Klein bikes on the local CL right now. Too stiff for my old ass.
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Old 01-16-20, 12:09 PM
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Garden variety Cannondale SR frame from 1985-86. I see nothing to indicate it's anything other than that.

With a mixed bag of components in very poor condition and a bunch of rear end damage.
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Old 01-16-20, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by verktyg View Post



verktyg

ADDENDUM:

Took a close look at the frame in question... It appears that someone put indentations into the chain stays for crank arm clearance rather than install a wider BB spindle. Prime area for failure, especially in aluminum!

Fine example of the work of a ham fisted hammer mechanic!

.
Those indentations are a feature of Cannondale frames. Never seen a failure in those areas....
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Old 01-16-20, 12:57 PM
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Looks like a regular Cannondale to me as well. The damage to the right chainstay and left seatstay etc make this frame worthless.

In theory it could be repaired if (maybe) one was willing to replace the damaged stays (and whatever else) and properly heat treat the whole thing. And then repaint. Since the cost to do that would far exceed the value of a Cannondale frame in un-trashed condition, obviously it would make no sense. Therefore, it is toast.
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Old 01-16-20, 01:10 PM
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Posting the good pics here. Oof!

They were definitely too lazy to toss the frame and part the rest out.





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Old 01-16-20, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Ronno6 View Post
Klein built a "prototype" for Cannondale?
I can't believe it for a second...
Nor me.

If Cannondale wanted a prototype built, they had plenty of competent welders in-house to build it.
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Old 01-16-20, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
Ha, I hadn't been to the site in years. It's one of those amazingly confusiconfusing- you cant understand how they stay in business.
https://budgetbicyclectr.com/vintage...icycle-22.html
$18000 is the closeout price. I get that an old stumpy, but it isn't even a first year model.
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Old 01-16-20, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by verktyg View Post
Took a close look at the frame in question... It appears that someone put indentations into the chain stays for crank arm clearance rather than install a wider BB spindle. Prime area for failure, especially in aluminum!

Fine example of the work of a ham fisted hammer mechanic
Are the dimples on this frame a different shape or size than the normal dimples on Cannondale frames?
They just look like the normal dimples to me.
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Old 01-16-20, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Are the dimples on this frame a different shape or size than the normal dimples on Cannondale frames?
They just look like the normal dimples to me.
They look pretty standard to me...........
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Old 01-16-20, 04:30 PM
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What I learned from this thread: ugly and broken costs $845.75 in Lincoln, California. Maybe.

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