So different, so alike battle. Royal Super Record vs Peugeot PSV-10
04-07-20, 01:29 PM
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So different, so alike battle. Royal Super Record vs Peugeot PSV-10
Gorgeous day for riding, though right off opening up the garage and I'm fighting over which of these near 40 year old bikes to ride.
Both are remarkably different, yet so alike. And my gosh, both are perfect to me in that they fit excellent though most would observe possibly on the ever slightest small fitment, in perspective of classic lightweights. But it's a feeling I desire for frame resilience due lighter tubing. I LOVE these two bikes!
Some basic stats -
Call it 55cm square for both bikes.
Made in France, 1983 Peugeot PSV-10, original pearl white finish with its share of patina and paint blems. Super Vitus 980 steel tubing, Super Vitus 980 fork, lugged, Simplex forged dropouts and ends. Handmade but shows rapid production.
Tubular wheelset with Dugast 700x20C. Weight as depicted 20.4 lbs
------
Made in Switzerland, 1982 Royal Super Record - team Wrangler livery, fine metallic blue finish with lots of race thrashed blems. Columbus SL steel, lugged with Cinelli bottom bracket, Campagnolo dropouts and ends.
Handmade but like above, not fine as a custom but built as a purpose racing tool and nothing more. I like its raw appeal, sans chrome that only complicates metallurgy.
Tubular wheelset with FMB 700x25C. Weight as depicted 20.3 lbs.
Both have highly regarded components of the day, plus some upgrades. And again, so different, yet so alike and they work brilliant.
Both are remarkably different, yet so alike. And my gosh, both are perfect to me in that they fit excellent though most would observe possibly on the ever slightest small fitment, in perspective of classic lightweights. But it's a feeling I desire for frame resilience due lighter tubing. I LOVE these two bikes!
Some basic stats -
Call it 55cm square for both bikes.
Made in France, 1983 Peugeot PSV-10, original pearl white finish with its share of patina and paint blems. Super Vitus 980 steel tubing, Super Vitus 980 fork, lugged, Simplex forged dropouts and ends. Handmade but shows rapid production.
Tubular wheelset with Dugast 700x20C. Weight as depicted 20.4 lbs
------
Made in Switzerland, 1982 Royal Super Record - team Wrangler livery, fine metallic blue finish with lots of race thrashed blems. Columbus SL steel, lugged with Cinelli bottom bracket, Campagnolo dropouts and ends.
Handmade but like above, not fine as a custom but built as a purpose racing tool and nothing more. I like its raw appeal, sans chrome that only complicates metallurgy.
Tubular wheelset with FMB 700x25C. Weight as depicted 20.3 lbs.
Both have highly regarded components of the day, plus some upgrades. And again, so different, yet so alike and they work brilliant.
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04-07-20, 01:46 PM
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The French steed has CLB Professional brakes that are remarkably lightweight. NOS pads! I'm in awe how well they feel and very little effort while on the hoods. Dialed in baby! Now my fave vintage classic sidepull of all time for performance. Though to be fair, I've yet to try these pads in the rain. They're old but incredibly and somehow able to exceed expectations today. Simplistic pivot bearing design and stiff arms. Sexy levers.
The Swiss machine and it's brakes are off the charts. I will testify, all those reports on delta type brakes are not telling the truth. OK, so here's the scoop ~ this bike has its factory model name as Super Record, nothing to do with Campagnolo, though the 1 year only Wrangler and Campy sponsored were equipped full Super Record. Off to the parts bin go the average performing Campy Super Record sidepulls.
I received this brakeset, 'incorrectly' assembled and quite likely why they appear to never been used, including pads! This is the second pair of Swiss made Weinmann type 531 I've come across. These have no markings or casting identifications, possibly 1st gen or test brakeset.
Performance is outstanding, even with the smaller OEM pads. Modulation is very uniform with a little more feel of pull vs. the CLB Professional noted above. These Weinmann deltas are quite compact and very light. Remarkable, a single caliper with pads only weigh 3 grams more than the Campy Super Record sidepull. I'm most impressed with them, especially for the days when when narrow tire fitment was in as the go-fast. Awesome brakes with beautiful feel and power. Again, and like above though yet to try in the rain.
The Swiss machine and it's brakes are off the charts. I will testify, all those reports on delta type brakes are not telling the truth. OK, so here's the scoop ~ this bike has its factory model name as Super Record, nothing to do with Campagnolo, though the 1 year only Wrangler and Campy sponsored were equipped full Super Record. Off to the parts bin go the average performing Campy Super Record sidepulls.I received this brakeset, 'incorrectly' assembled and quite likely why they appear to never been used, including pads! This is the second pair of Swiss made Weinmann type 531 I've come across. These have no markings or casting identifications, possibly 1st gen or test brakeset.
Performance is outstanding, even with the smaller OEM pads. Modulation is very uniform with a little more feel of pull vs. the CLB Professional noted above. These Weinmann deltas are quite compact and very light. Remarkable, a single caliper with pads only weigh 3 grams more than the Campy Super Record sidepull. I'm most impressed with them, especially for the days when when narrow tire fitment was in as the go-fast. Awesome brakes with beautiful feel and power. Again, and like above though yet to try in the rain.
Last edited by crank_addict; 04-07-20 at 02:03 PM.
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04-07-20, 01:51 PM
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First world problem...no wrong choice there. I'd have opted for the Royal. Cool & unusual, plus the wider tires.
04-07-20, 02:24 PM
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Cinelli cockpit on the Royal and the Phillipe - CTA on the Peugeot are similar size and weight. Both have some eye candy engraving. Close up pics needed- sorry.
Headsets are high zoot back when. I'll give the nod to Peugeot with its Stronglight (Spidel +) tapered roller bearing, hardened metal race set in nylon (Delrin) cup. Has that quirky cool parts surprise like in a Citroen car 'why not?'
The Royal with its Campagnolo Super Record, drilled out cups are pretty cool too and thousands of them still in use today. Top quality, superior ball bearings. Take care of them, and they'll take care of you.
Headsets are high zoot back when. I'll give the nod to Peugeot with its Stronglight (Spidel +) tapered roller bearing, hardened metal race set in nylon (Delrin) cup. Has that quirky cool parts surprise like in a Citroen car 'why not?'
The Royal with its Campagnolo Super Record, drilled out cups are pretty cool too and thousands of them still in use today. Top quality, superior ball bearings. Take care of them, and they'll take care of you.
04-07-20, 02:36 PM
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Saddles and seat post French vs Italy.
The Selle Italia Superleggera is a lightened saddle before the titanium rage. I'll look up my pic archives but on the scale, its very respectable at only 234 grams. Subjective as always, saddles may not work for one but another could be perfect. I'm happy with it. Seatpost is a Campagnolo Super Record with flutes, single bolt- a fave.
-----
The Peugeot PSV10 came stock with a Japan made Laprade seatpost. I swapped it out with a clever 2 bolt clamp type, fluted, made in France by JPR. Saddle is French made Perache model 027. Shape and size is near identical to the above Italian brand. Believe are very close in weight, though Perache offered an even lighter model, type 017. This 027 was acquired NOS. I prefer this suede vs smooth leather on the above.
The Selle Italia Superleggera is a lightened saddle before the titanium rage. I'll look up my pic archives but on the scale, its very respectable at only 234 grams. Subjective as always, saddles may not work for one but another could be perfect. I'm happy with it. Seatpost is a Campagnolo Super Record with flutes, single bolt- a fave.
-----
The Peugeot PSV10 came stock with a Japan made Laprade seatpost. I swapped it out with a clever 2 bolt clamp type, fluted, made in France by JPR. Saddle is French made Perache model 027. Shape and size is near identical to the above Italian brand. Believe are very close in weight, though Perache offered an even lighter model, type 017. This 027 was acquired NOS. I prefer this suede vs smooth leather on the above.
Last edited by crank_addict; 04-07-20 at 07:32 PM.
04-07-20, 02:45 PM
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Someday, when you've got the Weinmann Delta's opened up for maintenance, please take some photos. I'm curious about the details.
Very surprising/interesting that they are essentially the same weight as sidepulls of the era. Wouldn't have expected that!
As for which bike to ride... what a silly question. Ride both!
Steve in Peoria (the Hetchins was taken out for today's ride. What a gorgeous day!)
Very surprising/interesting that they are essentially the same weight as sidepulls of the era. Wouldn't have expected that!
As for which bike to ride... what a silly question. Ride both!
Steve in Peoria (the Hetchins was taken out for today's ride. What a gorgeous day!)
04-07-20, 03:53 PM
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Someday, when you've got the Weinmann Delta's opened up for maintenance, please take some photos. I'm curious about the details.
Very surprising/interesting that they are essentially the same weight as sidepulls of the era. Wouldn't have expected that!
As for which bike to ride... what a silly question. Ride both!
Steve in Peoria (the Hetchins was taken out for today's ride. What a gorgeous day!)
Very surprising/interesting that they are essentially the same weight as sidepulls of the era. Wouldn't have expected that!
As for which bike to ride... what a silly question. Ride both!
Steve in Peoria (the Hetchins was taken out for today's ride. What a gorgeous day!)
Will toss in team jersey. Hehe
Last edited by crank_addict; 04-07-20 at 04:00 PM.
04-07-20, 04:11 PM
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Can never get enough of classic and svelte cranksets.... in silver please.
When drillium was done the Stronglight way. Factory equipped. Maillard CXP pedals.
Campagnolo Super Record (date code '81), Campagnolo bottom bracket but with Teledyne titanium spindle and bolts, Regina hollow pin chain, Superleggera pedals, Cinelli ally clips with Acacio Da Silva straps. The great rider from Portugal early career was with Royal-Wrangler.
Both have bottom feed derailleur cable routing.
When drillium was done the Stronglight way. Factory equipped. Maillard CXP pedals.
Campagnolo Super Record (date code '81), Campagnolo bottom bracket but with Teledyne titanium spindle and bolts, Regina hollow pin chain, Superleggera pedals, Cinelli ally clips with Acacio Da Silva straps. The great rider from Portugal early career was with Royal-Wrangler.
Both have bottom feed derailleur cable routing.
Last edited by crank_addict; 04-08-20 at 01:56 PM.
04-07-20, 05:12 PM
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The Peugeot's original Simplex 610 derailleur had a broken main spring, so I swapped it to a svelte Huret Jubilee. Cog group is from a NOS boxed set Maillard Professional, abundance of gear choices to mix and match, 5 speed. Obvious noting the one bailout.
Simplex friction shifters. Works like it should. Ugly and fracture prone nylon wingnut over metal hexbolt.
Simplex friction shifters. Works like it should. Ugly and fracture prone nylon wingnut over metal hexbolt.
Last edited by crank_addict; 04-08-20 at 10:30 AM.
04-07-20, 05:36 PM
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Campagnolo Super Record (pat date 1982) with factory titanium mount pivot bolts and standard Crapagnolo fracture jockey pulley.
Cassette / freewheel by Regina type Futura is super clever. Tool less quick change of cog blocks, within seconds. Nice race ratio assortment on hand.
Friction, Super Record shifters.... always work.
Call it a tie, I like both setups and they function with smooth action simplicity. Both are pretty svelte and high up on the podium. I'll always take Suntour as the fave from this era but these have merit and history. Neg's are the garbage Campy pulleys and the original Simplex 610 common failure main spring. Hoo-ray to Huret for the upgraded rear derailleur.
Cassette / freewheel by Regina type Futura is super clever. Tool less quick change of cog blocks, within seconds. Nice race ratio assortment on hand.
Friction, Super Record shifters.... always work.
Call it a tie, I like both setups and they function with smooth action simplicity. Both are pretty svelte and high up on the podium. I'll always take Suntour as the fave from this era but these have merit and history. Neg's are the garbage Campy pulleys and the original Simplex 610 common failure main spring. Hoo-ray to Huret for the upgraded rear derailleur.
Last edited by crank_addict; 04-07-20 at 06:22 PM.
04-07-20, 11:14 PM
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The French steed has CLB Professional brakes that are remarkably lightweight. NOS pads! I'm in awe how well they feel and very little effort while on the hoods. Dialed in baby! Now my fave vintage classic sidepull of all time for performance. Though to be fair, I've yet to try these pads in the rain. They're old but incredibly and somehow able to exceed expectations today. Simplistic pivot bearing design and stiff arms. Sexy levers.
The Swiss machine and it's brakes are off the charts. I will testify, all those reports on delta type brakes are not telling the truth. OK, so here's the scoop ~ this bike has its factory model name as Super Record, nothing to do with Campagnolo, though the 1 year only Wrangler and Campy sponsored were equipped full Super Record. Off to the parts bin go the average performing Campy Super Record sidepulls.
I received this brakeset, 'incorrectly' assembled and quite likely why they appear to never been used, including pads! This is the second pair of Swiss made Weinmann type 531 I've come across. These have no markings or casting identifications, possibly 1st gen or test brakeset.
Performance is outstanding, even with the smaller OEM pads. Modulation is very uniform with a little more feel of pull vs. the CLB Professional noted above. These Weinmann deltas are quite compact and very light. Remarkable, a single caliper with pads only weigh 3 grams more than the Campy Super Record sidepull. I'm most impressed with them, especially for the days when when narrow tire fitment was in as the go-fast. Awesome brakes with beautiful feel and power. Again, and like above though yet to try in the rain.
The Swiss machine and it's brakes are off the charts. I will testify, all those reports on delta type brakes are not telling the truth. OK, so here's the scoop ~ this bike has its factory model name as Super Record, nothing to do with Campagnolo, though the 1 year only Wrangler and Campy sponsored were equipped full Super Record. Off to the parts bin go the average performing Campy Super Record sidepulls.I received this brakeset, 'incorrectly' assembled and quite likely why they appear to never been used, including pads! This is the second pair of Swiss made Weinmann type 531 I've come across. These have no markings or casting identifications, possibly 1st gen or test brakeset.
Performance is outstanding, even with the smaller OEM pads. Modulation is very uniform with a little more feel of pull vs. the CLB Professional noted above. These Weinmann deltas are quite compact and very light. Remarkable, a single caliper with pads only weigh 3 grams more than the Campy Super Record sidepull. I'm most impressed with them, especially for the days when when narrow tire fitment was in as the go-fast. Awesome brakes with beautiful feel and power. Again, and like above though yet to try in the rain.
Don't bother with CLB's Dural brake cable sets as they compress too much and lessens the braking performance from the Compact Professional calipers significantly. As for the Weinmann Deltas, I'd think twice before using them on rides with steep, fast descents. Braking power is just adequate on the flats and the teensy tiny brake pads would definitely be something to worry about on steep descents.
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04-08-20, 09:51 AM
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Peugeot with Maillard 700 Professional hubs, 36 spoke Union-Berg butted, Mavic GP4 anodized tubular rims. Not weight weenie but robust and proven.
The Royal with Campagnolo and bearings that seem to roll forever, 36 spoke Alpina, Formula Ambrosio anodized tubular rims. Again, not weight weenie but a dependable wheelset, hold true.
Lightened skewer, ally housings with exaggerated curved Campy lever.
The Royal with Campagnolo and bearings that seem to roll forever, 36 spoke Alpina, Formula Ambrosio anodized tubular rims. Again, not weight weenie but a dependable wheelset, hold true.
Lightened skewer, ally housings with exaggerated curved Campy lever.
Last edited by crank_addict; 04-08-20 at 10:17 AM.
04-08-20, 10:13 AM
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I have both brakesets on two of my bikes.
Don't bother with CLB's Dural brake cable sets as they compress too much and lessens the braking performance from the Compact Professional calipers significantly. As for the Weinmann Deltas, I'd think twice before using them on rides with steep, fast descents. Braking power is just adequate on the flats and the teensy tiny brake pads would definitely be something to worry about on steep descents.
Don't bother with CLB's Dural brake cable sets as they compress too much and lessens the braking performance from the Compact Professional calipers significantly. As for the Weinmann Deltas, I'd think twice before using them on rides with steep, fast descents. Braking power is just adequate on the flats and the teensy tiny brake pads would definitely be something to worry about on steep descents.
Last edited by crank_addict; 04-08-20 at 10:18 AM.
04-08-20, 12:11 PM
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crank_addict -
+1 on the CLB Professional brake set. Amazingly rigid and linear especially with modern lined cable and drawn stainless wires. Amazingly easy to center (and stay that way) with a unique and clever QR. One of the best single pivot sidepulls ever and virtually unknown over here in NA as they were never OEM on any new bike I ever saw offered here.
+1 on the CLB Professional brake set. Amazingly rigid and linear especially with modern lined cable and drawn stainless wires. Amazingly easy to center (and stay that way) with a unique and clever QR. One of the best single pivot sidepulls ever and virtually unknown over here in NA as they were never OEM on any new bike I ever saw offered here.
04-08-20, 01:06 PM
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Thanks for the tips. As for the Royal with Weinmann, I doubt this bike will see canyons but if it did, modern and maybe longer pads could be fitted. Likely far safer. Though right now, this brakeset functions and feels excellent. Interesting observation of these smaller pads, they have a single parallel deep cut groove. Curious why but perhaps to vent heat or maybe helps in the wet?
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89 Bottecchia Professional Chorus SL
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04-08-20, 02:23 PM
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Thanks for this cool side-by-side. Both bikes look great, but that the Pug jumps out at me. Love that crankset, and adding it to my radar.
04-09-20, 10:42 AM
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As a point of comparison, I pulled a rear Weinmann centerpull caliper (610mm version) out of the parts box and tossed it on the scale...
only 2 grams lighter than the Delta-ish version... and that may just be the weight of rubber worn off the pads!
Remarkable that with the Delta's extra parts and such, it still manages to weigh the same as the relatively simple centerpulls.
The complexity of Weinmann's delta design is noticeably less than Campy's design, if memory serves. I suppose the unquestionable sex appeal of the Campy design adds weight and complexity?? ....and profit too, I suppose.
Steve in Peoria
(no plans to trade the Hetchins, though.... )
04-09-20, 12:35 PM
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Schon gehort? Wrangler Zieh die gute Laune an (Have you heard? Wrangler - Put on the good mood)
Vergnuglich-Anzuglich Wrangler Zieh die gute Laune an (Pleasantly Pleasant -Wrangler- Put on the good mood)
Erich Machler / Royal-Wrangler wins stage 8
Last edited by crank_addict; 04-09-20 at 01:43 PM.
