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Spoke hole diameter for new wheel build

Old 06-23-22, 09:59 PM
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55tele
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Spoke hole diameter for new wheel build

I'm having a set of wheels built with DT 350 Hybrid 36h hubs for my new Specialized Creo. I was double checking the hubs specs and discovered the spoke holes are slightly larger (2.8mm) compared to the "Classic" DT 350 hubs spoke holes (2.6mm).....presumably to accommodate a thicker spoke....

I was planning on using 2.0 / 1.8 / 2.0. mm butted spokes.......will be slightly larger spoke holes create any problems in build or wheel quality??
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Old 06-23-22, 10:39 PM
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I'm going to think at the keyboard so here goes. 1) Are you kind to spokes or are you a head popper. (There are riders who can get away with 15g/1.8 spokes in your standard 2.3mm flange spoke hole and riders who will be cursed with popping heads. I'm one of those who can do it and have many times.)

2) A 2.0 spoke is .3 smaller than the regular spoke hole. A 1.8 .5 smaller. You are proposing .8 smaller. That would make me nervous. Can you get/afford 2.0-1.8-2.3 spokes? I hear really good things about the Sapims. That would bring you down to .5 with a very reputable spoke with lots of material. Another possibility would be to use washers at the heads. That should stop the pop but you'd have to check that the bottom of the J bend was long enough to exit properly out of the hub flange. It will quickly form a curved channel which will help but the thicker spoke together with the washer might be to much. First thing I'd do is go to an Ace Hardware and see if they have a thin quality SS washer to fit the spoke at the J bend. I would expect that washer to deform into a cone which should be just fine and that would buy you a little more distance across the J but that won't happen until you've tightened the spokes a lot.

Sorry, no answers here but maybe some ideas.
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Old 06-24-22, 06:24 AM
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I'd check with DT Swiss, since all other 350 hubs in that database have the smaller holes.
Maybe you've just spotted a typo.
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Old 06-24-22, 10:47 AM
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Many hub manufacturers increased spoke hole diameter to facilitate machine building.

Don't rely on the spec sheet. Put a spoke in a hole of the hub and pull it out perpendicular to the hub axle. Push and pull the spoke. Feel play/movement? You need spoke washers or a larger diameter spoke elbow. The brass washers provided by spoke manufacturers seem more ductile and easier to work with than the SS ones.

+1 on the Sapim Force spokes suggested by 79Mooney.

The spoke-hub interface is more than just the spoke hole diameter. Hub flange thickness and angle and the angle and length of the spoke elbow perhaps more critical than the spoke hole diameter to attain the goal of a durable wheel set.
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Old 06-24-22, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by 55tele View Post
I'm having a set of wheels built with DT 350 Hybrid 36h hubs for my new Specialized Creo. I was double checking the hubs specs and discovered the spoke holes are slightly larger (2.8mm) compared to the "Classic" DT 350 hubs spoke holes (2.6mm).....presumably to accommodate a thicker spoke....

I was planning on using 2.0 / 1.8 / 2.0. mm butted spokes.......will be slightly larger spoke holes create any problems in build or wheel quality??
I used some 15/16/15ga. spokes in a 2.6mm hole hub and didn't like the angle the "button end" was being pulled.
Different sized apples to compare, but I'd expect yours would be similar.
I would use spoke washers if I were to do it again.

Are these hubs designed for "super aero" spokes?
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Old 06-24-22, 01:49 PM
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So I heard back from DT Swiss on this....

The first choice in their opinion is to use the Alpine III with a 2.34mm diameter at the head.

But they also said they have heard of no issues using a 2.0 / 1.8 / 2.0mm spoke.....

So I went to my LBS who is doing the build and they told me they have done a build with these 350 Hybrid Hubs with the 2.0 / 1.8 / 2.0 spoke and no issues. So, we test fitted a 2.0 / 1.8 / 2.0 and it kind of wedges in...does not site flush initially.....my guy says it the head will get flush as you tension it up......

I told them that my first choice is to use the thicker Alpine III, but if not available, go with the 2.0 / 1.8 / 2.0.....................

To answer the last poster's question, the hub is not for aero spokes......its really an e-bike hub. I am probably overdoing this because this wheelset is going on a very light e-bike......but I tend to want to do the manufacturer recommended thing.....

I chose these hubs because 1) I could get them in 36h and 2) the front hub can be adapted to 12mm x 110mm.....the bike is set up "Road Boost".....12 x 110mm front and 12x 148mm rear......

The bike comes with 24 spoke wheels.....No Bueno for me.......I'm 290#.......

Last edited by 55tele; 06-24-22 at 02:09 PM.
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Old 06-24-22, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by 55tele View Post
......To answer the last poster's question, the hub is not for aero spokes......its really an e-bike hub. I am probably overdoing this because this wheelset is going on a very light e-bike......but I tend to want to do the manufacturer recommended thing.....

.......The bike comes with 24 spoke wheels.....No Bueno for me.......I'm 290#.......
What's the gauge of those spokes?
it's my understanding that Ebikes use a heavier gauge spoke.
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Old 06-24-22, 07:08 PM
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Spokes on the OEM wheels are nothing special.......they are not butted and appear to be 2.0mm / 14 gauge....but as I stated, they are "Road Boost", so maybe a little stronger due to the spoke angle...

This bike is on the border between a regular road bike and e-bike. Motor torque is only 35nm......it weighs 33 lbs in my frame size, which is XXL....

But I like the concept of an "assist" road e-bike as opposed to a 50-60lb e-bike,,,,,
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Old 06-26-22, 11:48 AM
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...if you are building wheels for something like a bicycle with an additional electric boost motor, and to carry the load of you on an XXL frame, along with whatever baggage you decide to haul around, it just makes sense to get the fattest elbow in there that you can. There's some piece by the Wheelsmith guy. on how they now feel that the cross sectional diameter at the elbow of the spoke seems to be the biggest factor in longevity, but I can't find it now. Maybe Google will be more friendly to you than it is to me this morning.

For a regular bicycle wheel, of the sort I build here for my own use on road bikes, matching the spoke diameter to the hole diameter has always been a non issue. But that's not what you are doing.

Here is a reference to spoke selection, but it is not the one I'm thinking of. I'm not 100% sure I'd use butted spokes in your motor driven wheel, either, because of loading and stability.
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Old 06-26-22, 01:24 PM
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An update:

We are going with the double butted 2.0 / 1.8 / 2.0 DT Competition spokes. As stated above, LBS has experience with these spokes and this hub. I would have preferred using the 2.34 head diameter spokes, but not available...... Also, these DT Hybrid hubs have thicker flanges, so my LBS is concerned washers will interfere....So, we will see how these perform.....

When I look at my other wheels, which were custom built by Zinn in Colorado, I have a mixture of 2.3 diameter headed spokes which are single butted (probably DT Alpines) on the drive side rear and disk side front hubs, with double butted spokes on the NDS both front and rear. Looking closely at the actual head of the spoke and the hole of the flange, there is daylight, i.e., it is not a super close fit of the head on the flanges....both with the 2.0 headed and 2.34 headed spokes......

I'm confident this will work ok. 1) it is a 33# bike. 2) 36 spokes in a boost configuration is probably overkill, I think Specialized did boost spacing on this e-bike for chain line and the wider Q because of the motor /bottom bracket. I would have probably ridden the stock wheels if they were 32 spokes instead of 24....and 3) Right now these heavier gauge spokes are a PITA to source........

My guy assures me it'll be ok....

Last edited by 55tele; 06-26-22 at 01:39 PM.
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