Descending question
04-11-22, 10:08 PM
#26
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which is ok.
There's as much (maybe more) to descending as any part of cycling.
1. DON"T try to follow a rider you think is a better descender than you - they likely have better skills, knowledge, and know how to adjust for the unexpected - you prolly don't.
Practice descending at a speed comfortable and safe for you on a road section which you are familiar with. Learn skills, vision and awareness at a speed you can handle without going 'stiffarm'.
2. DON'T stiff arm when things get 'uncomfortable, it causes poor bike control, shifts/drives your weight to the rear and will cause the bike to 'stand up' if done in the turn.
3. DO most of your braking in prep for the coming turn - not necessary to go completely without braking in the turn, but learning to balance/modulate braking is a huge skill to be practiced.
4. Always put your attention/look to where you wish to be going - don't use short vision, look as far ahead as posible. I use the 3 sec. rule. Attention to where you might be in 3 sec. That gives enough time to prep and react to road conditions and whatever else affects the descent. Looking further has the effect of 'straightening' curves... Curves seem less curvy, because you are aware of each element earlier - truth.
5. Teach yourself how to discern topography - it's not unpredictable and unknown - one can get a good understanding of what the upcoming conditions may be by understanding topography - just by being aware, based on what you can see,
6. For road... learn to put your OUTSIDE pedal down, weight it as much as possible, even if you 'lighten' the saddle (not often necessary...).
5. IF you get to a place where you DON'T feel you are going to get thru the turn... Put your attention ONLY to the clean exit of the turn, DON'T freeze your vision, DON'T straighten your arms, DON'T straighten you torso, LEAN the bike some more, LEAN your torso with the bike. LOOK to the turn exit - then 99.9 % of the time you will make the turn no problem.
6. Check your tires and tire/wheel condition before EVERY ride. Would be awful if you had all the best skills, but the equipment is the failure.
7. Practice, practice, practice. A good envelope of skill and knowledge can still be a screamin fast descent. Stay well within your envelope - there's nothing like a good descent.!
Ride On, down...
Yuri
EDIT: Everything is very important, but '4' is the foundation of everything else, when it comes to being a good descender.
EDIT2: A couple more things... If descending in a group or behind someone. Keep a good distance, appropriate for the speed, vision and conditions.
NEVER focus on the rider/riders ahead. Definitely be well aware of where they are and how their going, but focus on YOUR expected path not on the rider ahead. Best to NOT be on the 'outside' of riders ahead, best is a line inside not further 'out' than behind. If you're 'outside', good chance a mistake by anyone ahead will also take you out...
DON'T take the tightest 'apex', it's often the worst place road condition-wise and reduces 'vision'. Always give a comfortable space margin at the turn APEX (Unless you're getting paid to be the first at the bottom of the hill...)
There's as much (maybe more) to descending as any part of cycling.
1. DON"T try to follow a rider you think is a better descender than you - they likely have better skills, knowledge, and know how to adjust for the unexpected - you prolly don't.
Practice descending at a speed comfortable and safe for you on a road section which you are familiar with. Learn skills, vision and awareness at a speed you can handle without going 'stiffarm'.
2. DON'T stiff arm when things get 'uncomfortable, it causes poor bike control, shifts/drives your weight to the rear and will cause the bike to 'stand up' if done in the turn.
3. DO most of your braking in prep for the coming turn - not necessary to go completely without braking in the turn, but learning to balance/modulate braking is a huge skill to be practiced.
4. Always put your attention/look to where you wish to be going - don't use short vision, look as far ahead as posible. I use the 3 sec. rule. Attention to where you might be in 3 sec. That gives enough time to prep and react to road conditions and whatever else affects the descent. Looking further has the effect of 'straightening' curves... Curves seem less curvy, because you are aware of each element earlier - truth.
5. Teach yourself how to discern topography - it's not unpredictable and unknown - one can get a good understanding of what the upcoming conditions may be by understanding topography - just by being aware, based on what you can see,
6. For road... learn to put your OUTSIDE pedal down, weight it as much as possible, even if you 'lighten' the saddle (not often necessary...).
5. IF you get to a place where you DON'T feel you are going to get thru the turn... Put your attention ONLY to the clean exit of the turn, DON'T freeze your vision, DON'T straighten your arms, DON'T straighten you torso, LEAN the bike some more, LEAN your torso with the bike. LOOK to the turn exit - then 99.9 % of the time you will make the turn no problem.
6. Check your tires and tire/wheel condition before EVERY ride. Would be awful if you had all the best skills, but the equipment is the failure.
7. Practice, practice, practice. A good envelope of skill and knowledge can still be a screamin fast descent. Stay well within your envelope - there's nothing like a good descent.!
Ride On, down...
Yuri
EDIT: Everything is very important, but '4' is the foundation of everything else, when it comes to being a good descender.
EDIT2: A couple more things... If descending in a group or behind someone. Keep a good distance, appropriate for the speed, vision and conditions.
NEVER focus on the rider/riders ahead. Definitely be well aware of where they are and how their going, but focus on YOUR expected path not on the rider ahead. Best to NOT be on the 'outside' of riders ahead, best is a line inside not further 'out' than behind. If you're 'outside', good chance a mistake by anyone ahead will also take you out...
DON'T take the tightest 'apex', it's often the worst place road condition-wise and reduces 'vision'. Always give a comfortable space margin at the turn APEX (Unless you're getting paid to be the first at the bottom of the hill...)
Last edited by cyclezen; 04-11-22 at 10:27 PM.
04-11-22, 10:10 PM
#27
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I am on the brakes when I descend. Definitely not in a super crouched position trying to get as much aero gains as possible. I'm not racing and I'd much rather descent slower than some of the other guys/gals, and know that I will live to ride another day.
04-11-22, 10:24 PM
#28
Banned.
My second question is that my bike fitter has my saddle all the way forward. I also have a good drop between the saddle and the handlebar. As a result it can be a lot of forward weight during the descent. Do you think that could be contributing? Should I bring back the saddle just to maintain weight balance or do I just go with what the fitter asked for?
It's just a matter of getting used to long descents. One way I relieve pressure on my hands on long descents is to squeeze the top tube with my knees or thighs (whichever is closer) and let most of my weight rest on the legs. That will unload the arms and reduce your chance of "shimmy".
04-12-22, 05:41 AM
#29
Senior Member
You just need more practice. I’m not bad on descents (though I’m awful on climbs), but that is largely because I have ridden motorcycles for years, on which making maneuvers at higher speeds is something you do every day. Over the last two years I have greatly improved my downhill skiing, going down the black slopes at speeds which used to look terrifying. I was lucky enough (maybe) to hook up with some German and Swiss guys who made me chase them. You learn to go fast by going fast.
04-12-22, 06:41 AM
#30
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So I tend to get in my head a lot about descending. I'm always thinking that a small mistake and I will not make the curve and end up in the valley .... Literally the only thought.
I think I've been a bit better recently especially under reasonable gradients. But I do stay on the brakes more than most. My biggest issue is when it's really steep going down. I feel like breaking there will be hard because a lot of the force is already just to stop the acceleration and then I'm not sure how I'll slow I in time before the curve. I've had several rides with such very steep bits where I literally stopped my bike, looked down and then came down from a stopped speed.
My second question is that my bike fitter has my saddle all the way forward. I also have a good drop between the saddle and the handlebar. As a result it can be a lot of forward weight during the descent. Do you think that could be contributing? Should I bring back the saddle just to maintain weight balance or do I just go with what the fitter asked for?
Lastly, anyone crashed on descents before? How often do people actually end up over the curb?
I think I've been a bit better recently especially under reasonable gradients. But I do stay on the brakes more than most. My biggest issue is when it's really steep going down. I feel like breaking there will be hard because a lot of the force is already just to stop the acceleration and then I'm not sure how I'll slow I in time before the curve. I've had several rides with such very steep bits where I literally stopped my bike, looked down and then came down from a stopped speed.
My second question is that my bike fitter has my saddle all the way forward. I also have a good drop between the saddle and the handlebar. As a result it can be a lot of forward weight during the descent. Do you think that could be contributing? Should I bring back the saddle just to maintain weight balance or do I just go with what the fitter asked for?
Lastly, anyone crashed on descents before? How often do people actually end up over the curb?
You need to descend at a speed that you are comfortable meaning no negative thoughts. The brain can focus on one thing at a time. As a former competitive golfer, one thing I learned is if you focus on the negative, your ball (you) will end up in the water (cliff). Focus on where you want to go, not where you don't want to go.
2 years ago, I had many 60+ mph descents. Now, I rarely exceed 35 mph but am working on it. It isn't technique for me, it is mental.
