Ask your small, random, track-related questions here
#4626
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 152
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
4 Posts
The team GB position seems moderately upright with the elbows tucked compared to what some of our (Aus) riders seem to do.
Skinner would be a better comparison as he is closer in size to glaetzer, larger than Kenny.
Was curious as to what people thought would be the position with the most benefit, either being slightly more upright and narrower, or quite a low and wide position in reducing frontal area?
#4627
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 114
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I'm an enduro. I work on my sprint throughout the offseason - what better time to improve it? And Vo2max work (Z5) is a key part of aerobic development that I do in the offseason. I do less Z6 stuff in the winter. Some, but not much. That comes into my schedule more during spring builds.
There's a traditional approach of taking a big chunk of time off and starting from a clean slate with a lot of endurance work and foundational miles, but I'm a proponent of a very flipped approach - that the offseason is a great time to build power, even if you're letting some endurance wither.
There's a traditional approach of taking a big chunk of time off and starting from a clean slate with a lot of endurance work and foundational miles, but I'm a proponent of a very flipped approach - that the offseason is a great time to build power, even if you're letting some endurance wither.
It's super important to get lots of hard efforts in during the off season. When you aren't racing, you can really bury yourself in fatigue, and actually get faster.
#4628
Lapped 3x
I'd like to know how aero it is going that low. My guess is that once the chest/stomach are below horizontal, you start to produce more drag. You almost never see an aero position go that low, at least not now with wind tunnel testing readily available.
#4629
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 152
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
4 Posts
Bos and Buchli have reasonably similar positions as they're similarly built guys. I'm about the same size as them/glaetzer so figure if it works for them it may probably work for me.
#4630
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 152
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
4 Posts
That's what I'm curious about, but I also figure that the national team wouldn't do it if it didn't work, as both the men and women seem to have the same kind of position
#4631
aka mattio
Glaetzer's position is crazy - I love it. With him, for whatever reason, it looks natural and not strained. Something about how he rides makes him particularly look like an animal, a predator, something big and feline and scary.
The thing about what works for pros - especially sprinters - is that they have go with what feels right. It's sort of a vague item that aligns with them needing a position in which they can put out maximum power. It might not be "optimized" for w/cda, but then again an "optimized" position might fail to take into account other sub-optimal conditions.
Frequently, I think it's not a great idea to look at the pros for too much inspiration. They're freaks. We're mortals. And they don't always follow or trust science.
The thing about what works for pros - especially sprinters - is that they have go with what feels right. It's sort of a vague item that aligns with them needing a position in which they can put out maximum power. It might not be "optimized" for w/cda, but then again an "optimized" position might fail to take into account other sub-optimal conditions.
Frequently, I think it's not a great idea to look at the pros for too much inspiration. They're freaks. We're mortals. And they don't always follow or trust science.
#4632
Elitist
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,965
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times
in
77 Posts
Glaetzer: 6ft 3in (190cm), CHIN ON DA STEM:
I find it hard to believe that he's pedaling "full circles". I'd imagine that his hips are so closed that his hip flexors are completely shut off. At that point, it's simply HULK MASH.
I find it hard to believe that he's pedaling "full circles". I'd imagine that his hips are so closed that his hip flexors are completely shut off. At that point, it's simply HULK MASH.
Last edited by carleton; 11-07-17 at 10:40 AM.
#4633
Elitist
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,965
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times
in
77 Posts
Yeah, I'd like to second that. John McEnroe's forehand is a great example. One of the greatest players ever had the worst forehand. He obviously won with it, but if a new player showed up to a coaching session with that exact same stroke, they'd be coached off of it immediately. What should the player do? That's up for debate. Wins tend to shut every nay-sayer up.
#4634
aka mattio
Dizzy Gillespie, one of the best trumpeters ever, had epically bad embouchure. Experts are quite often freaks. For good info about things like form, and training, don't look to naturals. Look to the people who have had to meticulously slowly steadily piece by piece improve everywhere.
#4635
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 152
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
4 Posts
I might see if I can get ahold of one of the coaches or maybe one of the sports scientists next time I'm around the HPU. Glaetzer won't be back here for a little while so it might be a little harder to get his opinion of it.
It does look most cool though
It does look most cool though
#4637
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Qc,Canada
Posts: 159
Bikes: Felt TK FRD
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Maybe the the ribs are set 1cm apart or less and the seatpost wedge in the frame actually lock into those ribs with custom seatpost made for each athlete so one of the ribs is at the proper seat height for the respective athlete. Could even have different seatpost for the kilo that is ribbed appropriately. I am just guessing a reasoning of it.
#4638
Elitist
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,965
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times
in
77 Posts
Maybe the the ribs are set 1cm apart or less and the seatpost wedge in the frame actually lock into those ribs with custom seatpost made for each athlete so one of the ribs is at the proper seat height for the respective athlete. Could even have different seatpost for the kilo that is ribbed appropriately. I am just guessing a reasoning of it.
I always wondered if the BT Edge and Ultra had seatpost issues under bigger riders.
The top of that post has silver bits which is different from the normal seatpost.
#4640
Lapped 3x
Maybe the the ribs are set 1cm apart or less and the seatpost wedge in the frame actually lock into those ribs with custom seatpost made for each athlete so one of the ribs is at the proper seat height for the respective athlete. Could even have different seatpost for the kilo that is ribbed appropriately. I am just guessing a reasoning of it.
If it were custom, or even just S,M,L,XL sizes, you would only have to rib the bottom portion that makes contact with the wedge bolts. Maybe to smooth dirty airflow around the seat post? Sort of like a rear diffuser on a sports car.
#4642
Lapped 3x
I don't know if you guys remember Mark French from Aus. He had the largest saddle to bar drop that I've ever seen barring Ondrej Sosenka or Theo Bos, and those guys are quite tall.
https://www.gettyimages.ca/event/worl...ture-id2007080
https://www.gettyimages.ca/event/worl...ture-id2007080
#4643
aka mattio
#4644
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 152
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
4 Posts
Post isn't the standard BT part either and the ribs are there for aero reasons. One of the guys in my cycling club is a sports engineer and we were talking about the seats over coffee. Best I could describe them as they're a little like pivotal seats and posts underneath from bmx if anyone is familiar with them, and I believe the tops are printed.
In theory they shouldn't be able to tilt under load but I'll see if I can find out any more info about them.
Edit: engineer for our state squad, but the national team overlaps in areas here because the national team is based here.
In theory they shouldn't be able to tilt under load but I'll see if I can find out any more info about them.
Edit: engineer for our state squad, but the national team overlaps in areas here because the national team is based here.
#4645
Elitist
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,965
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times
in
77 Posts
I don't know if you guys remember Mark French from Aus. He had the largest saddle to bar drop that I've ever seen barring Ondrej Sosenka or Theo Bos, and those guys are quite tall.
UCI World Cup Classics Track Cycling Photos and Images | Getty Images
UCI World Cup Classics Track Cycling Photos and Images | Getty Images
Yeah, that position is pretty deep.
I know, right? This has been around since before the Olympics and I wonder if anyone noticed.
Post isn't the standard BT part either and the ribs are there for aero reasons. One of the guys in my cycling club is a sports engineer and we were talking about the seats over coffee. Best I could describe them as they're a little like pivotal seats and posts underneath from bmx if anyone is familiar with them, and I believe the tops are printed.
In theory they shouldn't be able to tilt under load but I'll see if I can find out any more info about them.
Edit: engineer for our state squad, but the national team overlaps in areas here because the national team is based here.
In theory they shouldn't be able to tilt under load but I'll see if I can find out any more info about them.
Edit: engineer for our state squad, but the national team overlaps in areas here because the national team is based here.
According to Dan's Comp (a top BMX parts website):
The Pivotal seat became the BMX industry standard not long after its introduction. The pivotal design requires one-bolt mounting and angular adjustment, and is the most popular option in modern BMX seats.
#4647
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Qc,Canada
Posts: 159
Bikes: Felt TK FRD
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Dirt jumper and some downhill rider use that system. It is useful when the saddle is tilted backward to have more space to put your hips on top of the rear wheel axle or even behind it during jumps, drops and steep sections.
I would assume they are more like the Selle Italia monolink system or like SDG I-Beam system where micro-adjustment of the saddle angle is still possible but a stronger mono rail to handle better the impact (in case of the SDG I-beam system) compared to a standard railed saddle. But looking again at the picture, it looks like the saddle can pivot on the forward bolt and rear bolt fix the angle of saddle and would have the advantage of always keeping the saddle exactly at the UCI saddle setback limit or at the proper setback specific to each rider.
I would assume they are more like the Selle Italia monolink system or like SDG I-Beam system where micro-adjustment of the saddle angle is still possible but a stronger mono rail to handle better the impact (in case of the SDG I-beam system) compared to a standard railed saddle. But looking again at the picture, it looks like the saddle can pivot on the forward bolt and rear bolt fix the angle of saddle and would have the advantage of always keeping the saddle exactly at the UCI saddle setback limit or at the proper setback specific to each rider.
#4649
Elitist
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,965
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times
in
77 Posts
Areas where it has already happened:
- Frames (they are no longer the same geometry)
- Handlebars
- Shoes
- Wheels
- Gloves
- Cranks
- Chainrings/Cogs
- Tires
- Hubs
Areas where that can happen:
- Saddles
- Pedals (how many hacks to attach straps are there now?)
- Skinsuits
- Helmets
- Seatposts
- Aerobars
- Tires
- Shoes
- Gloves
- Power Meters
- Cycling Head Units
- Power file analysis software
- Hubs
Track racing is evolving into a similar but different sport. There are LOTS of opportunities for innovation.
#4650
Elitist
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,965
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times
in
77 Posts
Get this, every Olympics we see a big team make a tweak of something on that list above.
Imagine if a company or two focused time, money, and resources towards doing those things for more than just one team? Sounds crazy but 3T did it with the Scatto bars. CASCO with the WARP helmet. SRM did it with power meter cranks....and all of those are staples of the sport right now.
Imagine if a company or two focused time, money, and resources towards doing those things for more than just one team? Sounds crazy but 3T did it with the Scatto bars. CASCO with the WARP helmet. SRM did it with power meter cranks....and all of those are staples of the sport right now.
Last edited by carleton; 11-07-17 at 10:59 PM.