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Zwift KOMs are Ridiculous

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Zwift KOMs are Ridiculous

Old 03-08-23, 10:50 AM
  #76  
msu2001la
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Originally Posted by Koyote
That seems like a lot of trouble. It might be easier to just show up for a real race.
Yes, because we all know that outdoor bike racing is known for having very few regulations and no cheating.
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Old 03-08-23, 10:57 AM
  #77  
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I know IRL, on my upright I can snag Strava KoM sometimes or close on downhill segments but on Zwift, not even close.

I knew their model was trash on the World Team TT when pulling my team at 41 km and around 330-340 watts, another team blew by my team at 45kmh at 200 watts.
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Old 03-08-23, 11:00 AM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by himespau
The thing is, if Eddy Hoole hadn't gotten greedy and used his cheating setup to hold 8 for 5 minutes, he would have gotten away with it. He'd apparently been getting away with it at the highest stage of Zwift racing for up to a couple years at that point. ZRL Premier League and international events and whatnot. If he'd just held 6 and been part of the bunch sprint at the end, no one would have looked close enough to detect it even if he'd one. The one thing that all the bans have in common (except that dude who had a bot earn him the Tron for an early international competition, all the people who've been caught have been caught for doing humanly impossible numbers (another ZADA report said something like, "she would have had to have put out VO2max numbers no human woman has before or since"). People who just cheat enough to be at/near the front at the end get away with it because, as RChung says, it's too much work to catch them.
This isn't an indictment of Zwift racing. It's a statement that can apply to any sport, but is especially applicable to outdoor cycling.

How many pro tour riders have admitted to cheating during their careers, but were never caught red-handed?
Compare this to the relatively few who got super greedy and busted after pulling superman efforts during races.

Zwift is no different here.
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Old 03-09-23, 04:32 AM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by msu2001la
I mentioned it above, but all of these KOM times appear to be from rubber banded group rides. This feature allows all riders in a group to stay together, regardless of speed. So someone riding at very low power can be pulled along (and conversely someone riding at high power is held back).
I've done a few of these, and there are definitely times where slower riders who fall behind and get gapped will suddenly get a big "push" from the software to catch them back up. It seems entirely plausible that these Strava KOM's were recorded during one of these situations.
Zwift probably filters this out and doesn't record it as a KOM in their software, but Strava didn't catch it. I don't see any new ones, so my guess is that this has been "fixed" or the rubber band feature is less abrupt than it used to be.

To be clear, I don't actually think there's anything malicious going on here. Calling this "cheating" is a massive stretch.
If you do a search you will see that there have been several different "speed" bugs reported in Zwift over the years, which have subsequently been fixed. I remember one of them was related to the "meet up" feature. There was also one bug where rider speed would accelerate to over 40 kph regardless of power and gradient. I've never personally experienced any of these bugs, but they are real.

Totally agreed that these are not cheat related. Just unfortunate, relatively rare software glitches.
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Old 03-09-23, 10:11 AM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by Eric F
It's just different racing. Hell, they have e-sports F1 racing. Apparently, it's kind of a big deal.
I think most of the 4 wheeled stadium type motorsports wouldn't miss a beat if the real drivers were replaced by remote drivers using controllers in the tower, especially drag racing. What the fans don't know won't hurt them. Even if they did it might not matter. Pro wrestling makes it work somehow.
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Old 03-09-23, 11:13 AM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by seypat
I think most of the 4 wheeled stadium type motorsports wouldn't miss a beat if the real drivers were replaced by remote drivers using controllers in the tower, especially drag racing. What the fans don't know won't hurt them. Even if they did it might not matter. Pro wrestling makes it work somehow.
I'm not so sure. Knowing that there is a real human, at real risk, behind the wheel of those high-powered vehicles is part of what makes it compelling entertainment.
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Old 03-09-23, 12:01 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by Eric F
I'm not so sure. Knowing that there is a real human, at real risk, behind the wheel of those high-powered vehicles is part of what makes it compelling entertainment.
That's why I said what the fans don't know won't hurt them. Of course if they found out, something would hit the fan.
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Old 03-10-23, 10:16 AM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by RChung
Right, that 28 mph on 153 watts does look suspicious. These get weeded out in Zwift once the rider exits the program, but Strava doesn't do this. So I tend to think this is a Strava issue, mostly, not so much a Zwift issue.
As mentioned elsewhere, this is like the rubber-banding bug during a "meetup" where the riders stick together and travel at unrealistic speed. Quite possibly not an intended cheat.

Originally Posted by RChung
There *are* much easier ways to cheat -- what's hard is doing it in a way that's hard to detect. I don't want to reveal too much, but years ago (way before there was a Zwift) a guy who didn't believe me made several copies of a power meter data file and altered all but one of them (i.e., there was an original version and several altered versions) and sent them to me. It took a little bit of effort but not a lot to figure out which was the original unaltered file. I wouldn't want to do that for thousands or tens of thousands of files but if there was a suspicion about a particular user and someone was paying for my time, it could be done.
Zwift is currently working through a bug related to the softward seeing the HR2VP app as an actual power meter.
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Old 03-11-23, 10:35 PM
  #84  
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On two consecutive days, doing Gran Fondo training, I was awarded a green jersey. There is no way I was the fastest through the sprints on each ride. Very odd.
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Old 03-12-23, 06:18 AM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by rsbob
On two consecutive days, doing Gran Fondo training, I was awarded a green jersey. There is no way I was the fastest through the sprints on each ride. Very odd.
Twice I've got a green jersey, and both were on long rides.
I *think* I may have completed all the sprints on a particular route, when nobody else riding at the time had done so, and that got me the the jersey.
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Old 03-12-23, 07:21 AM
  #86  
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I don't have a cell-phone and never will, but I know people in a group I ride with use them and participate in this KOM thing. I think it is pretty lame because all last year they spent the entire ride in my draft getting a tow around our route while I was pedaling away in zone-3, then right at the last mile or half-mile they would slingshot out around and burn their match for what I am guessing is trying to place on this virtual thing.

They are out of luck this year because I quit zone-3 riding on a regular basis.
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Old 03-12-23, 09:20 AM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by beng1
I don't have a cell-phone and never will, but I know people in a group I ride with use them and participate in this KOM thing. I think it is pretty lame because all last year they spent the entire ride in my draft getting a tow around our route while I was pedaling away in zone-3, then right at the last mile or half-mile they would slingshot out around and burn their match for what I am guessing is trying to place on this virtual thing.

They are out of luck this year because I quit zone-3 riding on a regular basis.
Yo, grouchy out-or-touch dude! Zwift KOMs are done online using smart trainers, not riding bikes on the road.
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Old 03-12-23, 12:38 PM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by rsbob
On two consecutive days, doing Gran Fondo training, I was awarded a green jersey. There is no way I was the fastest through the sprints on each ride. Very odd.
Originally Posted by BTinNYC
Twice I've got a green jersey, and both were on long rides.
I *think* I may have completed all the sprints on a particular route, when nobody else riding at the time had done so, and that got me the the jersey.
curious what makes you think the jersey's were given in error, at least that is how i read it. i got the jersey twice, once in NY and once in Innsbruck. pretty sure i got them legitimately because i busted my a$$ doing the sprints. maybe you did too?

could have been a slow day too i suppose.
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Old 03-12-23, 01:12 PM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
Yo, grouchy out-or-touch dude! Zwift KOMs are done online using smart trainers, not riding bikes on the road.
Well I know there is some thing that they use while riding to keep track of how fast they go on some routes, and just like pop television and music, it makes me feel good to know nothing about it and that is how it is going to stay.

As far as the Zwift thing goes, I ride a bike, even if it is on a trainer in the basement, for exercise,. I don't have a cell-phone because I can go five minutes without human contact, and actually do things all by my self for hours on end. It is what people used to do who grew up before digital electronics took over, or you could just say what people who grew up used to do period.
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Old 03-12-23, 01:36 PM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by beng1
Well I know there is some thing that they use while riding to keep track of how fast they go on some routes, and just like pop television and music, it makes me feel good to know nothing about it and that is how it is going to stay.

As far as the Zwift thing goes, I ride a bike, even if it is on a trainer in the basement, for exercise,. I don't have a cell-phone because I can go five minutes without human contact, and actually do things all by my self for hours on end. It is what people used to do who grew up before digital electronics took over, or you could just say what people who grew up used to do period.
I think I can speak for the majority when I say we don't care why you don't own a cell phone.
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Old 03-12-23, 01:46 PM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by beng1
Well I know there is some thing that they use while riding to keep track of how fast they go on some routes, and just like pop television and music, it makes me feel good to know nothing about it and that is how it is going to stay.

As far as the Zwift thing goes, I ride a bike, even if it is on a trainer in the basement, for exercise,. I don't have a cell-phone because I can go five minutes without human contact, and actually do things all by my self for hours on end. It is what people used to do who grew up before digital electronics took over, or you could just say what people who grew up used to do period.
If you're not here to post about the topic of this thread, and clearly you're not, you're just trolling. Go away.
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Old 03-13-23, 10:54 AM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by beng1
it makes me feel good to know nothing about it and that is how it is going to stay.
Probably best to ignore threads like this then.
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Old 03-13-23, 12:51 PM
  #93  
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Even more ridiculous than a Zwift KOM is Zwift itself. Get outside and ride a bike instead of paying $500 for a machine plus $15/month to sit in one place and spin staring a screen.
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Old 03-13-23, 03:17 PM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by prj71
Even more ridiculous than a Zwift KOM is Zwift itself. Get outside and ride a bike instead of paying $500 for a machine plus $15/month to sit in one place and spin staring a screen.
What are you staring at while typing this troll post?
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Old 03-13-23, 03:45 PM
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A screen. But I'm not riding a bike or spin bike while doing it.
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Old 03-13-23, 05:51 PM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by prj71
Even more ridiculous than a Zwift KOM is Zwift itself. Get outside and ride a bike instead of paying $500 for a machine plus $15/month to sit in one place and spin staring a screen.
what is the point in hating virtual riding so much aside from reminding us at every opportunity? People do it for various reasons, get over it already.
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Old 03-13-23, 05:53 PM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by prj71
Get outside and ride a bike instead of paying $500 for a machine plus $15/month to sit in one place and spin staring a screen.
Sometimes, spinning in one place and staring at a screen is the sensible option.

The atmospheric river is making landfall tonight (Monday). Flood watch and high wind warnings start tonight and run until Wednesday morning. I don't mind getting a little wet, but this stuff is dangerous.
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Old 03-13-23, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by prj71
Even more ridiculous than a Zwift KOM is Zwift itself. Get outside and ride a bike instead of paying $500 for a machine plus $15/month to sit in one place and spin staring a screen.
Did you ever stop to think that maybe people with Zwift subscriptions actually spend more time on their bike, because they ride indoors in addition to riding outdoors?
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Old 03-14-23, 05:50 AM
  #99  
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Of the guys I ride with outdoors, the ones who also have indoor trainers are invariably faster outdoors than those who don't. This is most apparent in spring when some guys have hardly ridden outdoors because of the poor weather. Depends where you live obviously. But where I live is no fun riding outdoors in the dark winter months.

My own cycling performance went through the roof after I bought a smart trainer in 2019. I had various indoor bikes well before that, but never had enough motivation to do enough training on them to make a big difference. Zwift and other smart apps changed all that dramatically for me.
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Old 03-14-23, 07:25 AM
  #100  
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Originally Posted by spelger
what is the point in hating virtual riding so much aside from reminding us at every opportunity? People do it for various reasons, get over it already.
I don't hate it. I ride a spin bike occasionally at the local gym...But if and only if the weather is very cold or it will be raining outside. I wouldn't buy a Swift machine and pay the monthly subsciption fee. But there seems to be a segment of the cycling population that once winter season hits they refuse to go outdoors and ride and all. All it takes is a fat bike if you live in a snowy area or an upgrade on clothing for road or MTB.
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