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Need a little help...

Old 07-23-07, 09:36 PM
  #1  
solveg
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Need a little help...

I'm planning my first restore. I found the bike, but need someone to walk through the master plan with me.

I need to decide whether to powdercoat, need to decide which components I want to keep and if and how I should go to a triple. I need someone to let me know which things I should have done by a shop because the tools are too expensive.

I'm planning on using the seat, bars, and lights from another bike, if they fit. the bike will be an urban bike, used when I want to leave it locked for a while, and for getting groceries and running errands. Some pleasure riding. I'm only thinking of powder coating it because I think I'll be attached to it when it's done and will keep it forever.

The bike I'm doing is an SR bike and is possibly* a touring bike. I need help determining that, too. It lacks braze-ons, but it pretty clearly says "touring" in the name. It has Shimano 600 EX arabesque components, and is lugged chromoly.


I'm just not comfortable starting the job until I know where I want to end up. I'm taking a 2 day class this week, and will take an advanced class as I can, so I won't need help actually working on the bike. Just someone to help me plan and let me ask questions as needed.

I may have stuff to trade for the favor.

Here's photos of the bike. https://homepage.mac.com/sbacig/Atlan...toAlbum71.html

Susan
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Old 07-23-07, 09:50 PM
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The current finish will probably be more durable than a budget powdercoat job. Make sure it fits, then get it running and decide, the tires look a bit thin for "urban" running, from the images I cannot tell the size, 700c or 27".

If you like how it fits and handles, then invest time and $ into refurbishment such as paint. The bike will probably fly lower below the radar as it is than with a fresh powdercoat job. Riding it will tell if the gear ratios suit your fitness and terrain.

Probably not what you wanted to hear, but that's how I see it.
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Old 07-23-07, 10:04 PM
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No, that's good! I'm more concerned with just taking it apart and putting it back together. To be honest, it rides fine as it is. But I need a bike to learn mechanics on, since I plan on touring. I need to really understand the mechanics.

I'm not looking for "pretty", I just thought that now might be the time to fix the finish since I'm dealing with rust removal. I imagine I'll want to flush the frame. (See, this is why I need walk-through help).

Good advice, though, to ride it a fair amount first and see how it handles.
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Old 07-23-07, 11:47 PM
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yeah, def ride it a bit before taking the plunge. The arabesque group is pretty sweep. My personal pref would be to ditch the regular SR stem on there and get a nice SR royal one, they look a little nicer. If you are using it for a townie, it would be sweet with a set of promande or porteur bars and some honjo fenders. Nitto also makes racks that mount without braze ons. Pricey, but nice.
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Old 07-24-07, 12:00 AM
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If you're planning on using a steel bike like that for around-town all-weather riding, you should probably treat the frame with JP Weigle Frame Saver while it's all apart. I've heard good things about it preventing rust and plan on using it on all my steel bikes before I move to Portland. I've seen it for sale on amazon.com, don't know where else you could get it but a google search would show you.

Think about maybe using it as a single speed if you're riding in a mostly flat area. Simpler to maintain and clean, and you don't have to worry about those cool old 600 Arabesque components being damaged/stolen.

You could also get a donor bike with Shimano 105 or similar level components and just swap those out, especially if you want to go with a triple, as you'll need a new front derailler. If you decide you want a triple, I have a 3-4 year old 105 triple crankset with a bb and front derailler I'd be willing to trade or sell. PM me if interested.

Finally, if you don't have one already, get a repair stand. It really helps when restoring or dismantling a bike. Nashbar and performance bike both have relatively inexpensive ones. I'd go with the type that clamp on to a tube. I have a Park PCS-9 and it's great.
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Old 07-24-07, 06:51 PM
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Thanks for the advice! I didn't get any takers on the babysitting job, so I guess I'll just post my stupid beginner questions here and hope for the best.

Took the bike on a long ride, and I love* how it handles. It' more lively than my Klein Stage Comp. It's a way better ride than my Bridgestone 200 that it's replacing. The Shimano 600 Arabesque components are remarkably nice, smooth and in good condition. There's no rush in taking it apart, so I think I'll just do what I have to to get it going and wait for a total overhaul class.

However, I need to change the bars asap. I have a Nitto noodle on my B-200. On Sheldon's site, the closes is the 400 which takes a 27. The only SR on there is a Prism, which is 25.

Is there anything I should know about measuring this? I'm not hopeful they'll swap out. I'll be raising the bars a lot, should I put new cables on at the same time? They look like they're original. Do they wear out after a while, or are they going to be too short anyway....
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Old 07-24-07, 07:19 PM
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Definitely replace the cables and housings with new, modern items. They tend to rust and can seize up or just make shifting and braking slower and less efficient. I don't really understand what you're asking about the bars, though.
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Old 07-24-07, 07:27 PM
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I was going to swap out the current handlebars with a Nitto Noodle. I'll have to get a stem extender if I want to actually ride the bike... My Big Blue Book is up north, so I wasn't sure how to evaluate what I have and what I needed to get at the shop. I think I'll bring the bike in to the shop that just put on my noodle and have them just give me everything I'll need. It's hard for me right now to even communicate, because I don't know the right words for things, yet.

I'll get new cables tomorrow, too. thanks.
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Old 07-24-07, 08:04 PM
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The Noodle bar should require a 26.0mm stem clamp diameter, and I would imagine your original stem is the same. If it's not, you may want to look into a Nitto Technomic stem with a 26.0mm clamp. They have a really long quill so you could raise the handlebars higher without an extension. I have this stem on nearly all of my bikes and love it.

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Old 07-27-07, 06:11 PM
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OK, got the stem/bars taken care of.

As I've been learning about this bike I've found out it has 2 oddball things...

1) It has a very early uniglide cassette. Luckily my LBS guy had an extra cassette in the back and gave it to me (free!) because they're really hard to find. Mine has lower touring gears (it's definately a touring bike) so I've read you can reverse the disks when they show too much wear. So, between the two cassettes, I should be OK. The chain, however, is a bit lax. Not going to replace it at this point, though, because I sense there are problems which could arise and I want to protect the cassette.

Can anyone give me any more info in this area?

2) it has a self-extracting crank bolt. I'm just researching this now, and it looks like I won't be able to get it on tightly with just a hex tool. There are other things recommended, but it's all greek to me. Could someone give me a link to the tool I want to get to tighten my crank?

I think I picked a weirdo bike for my first project, but it is a sweetheart.

Susan
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Old 07-27-07, 11:43 PM
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I'm a little confused as to exactly what some of your issues are, but basically it looks like you have a really nice bike to either customize or keep mainly as-is. It has some "unique" older equipment, but nothing us C&V folks don't ride every day, and we ride a lot even weirder than old Uniglide and Shimano 600 Arabesque, believe me. If you KNOW the chain is too slack just use a chain tool to remove a link, try it , then and remove another link if needed. It's been awhile since I removed one of these 600s with the self-extractor bolts, but I don't recall it being any special big deal, you just need the LONG-handle Allen wrench...I recall you need a pin wrench to install/remove the self-extracting units in the cranks, but once they're in you just leave them unless you have bunged-up ones that need replacement, or you want to replace with conventional bolts for...conventionality. Looks like the rear hub needs to come forward in the dropouts, it'll shift better...NICE BIKE!
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Old 07-28-07, 12:00 AM
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Thank you! I was worried noone was going to respond.

I may not be communicating real well because I'm not understanding the issues real well. I've been reading all the info I can find on the forum, and then trying to put it all together. The consensus on the self-extracting crank thing was that there were several tools you could have that would do the job, but I didn't know exactly which one to get. If a long handled allen wrench will do the job, that's great.

But how long is long?

The other issue was the chain, and you answered that question very well. I didn't know if taking off a link was an ok thing to do... I was thinking that since this cassette has twisted gearing, it required special handling.

Thanks! And thanks for liking my bike!

Susan
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Old 07-28-07, 12:36 AM
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Wherever fine Allen wrenches are sold, look for metric keys that say "long arm" rather than short, they cost a few pennies more, but will provide more leverage and that's the only difference...I like the original Allen brand, as well as Bondhus, Elkind, Wihu.
Here's a scan of the complete Shimano 1982 catalog, courtesy of Sheldon Brown:
https://sheldonbrown.com/shimano1982/index.html
As I look at the nice pictures and descriptions, I recalled that the early Uniglide cassette used a twisted tooth cog and because of that the chain that works BEST is the original Shimano UG with bulged side plates (hard to find), or there are some other currently-available brands that have a similar bulged plate that work well too...when you NEED a replacement, find a chain made for 6-7-8 speeds with a similar appearance to the UG. I'm sure there are some other C&V forum folks who have experimented with various chains and found the best working ones for these cassettes. One that comes to mind is called a Z-chain, not sure if it's made by KMC or DiD, but some Taiwanese company and looks very similar to the UG...not expensive either...MIGHT work well.

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Old 10-01-07, 10:28 PM
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Hi solveg,
I'm in the process of restoring my first bike too. Upon completion I have 3 more to go in my collection so far. I'm doing one at a time. My problem is that I'm bit of a purist, I would prefer to use what originally came with the bike but that can be both difficult to find and rather costly. I have more time than money. So I settle with what I've got or can afford. I found the following links to be very helpful:

https://howtofixbikes.blogspot.com/

https://www.bunchobikes.com/detailing.htm

However my real teacher was finding two bikes in the trash, each had missing parts but I wasn't really interested in that. These bikes are/were dept. store bikes and really abused so I didn't want to fix them up and use/sell/or give them away. I just didn't care what happened to them. So I read up on the subject of Head Sets, Bottom Brackets etc... I removed these and took notice and digital pictures so I got some hands on experience. I ended up keeping some parts but basically stripped them down to look like a turkey after the Thanksgiving dinner. So I got a feel for when I tackled my prized possessions. I have already restored/detailed the head set and brakes, next is the BB of the 1st bike. I broke it down into sizable jobs and so far so good. Referring to those two sites really helped me a lot.

Best of luck from Las Vegas, you know that place where the sun always shines and the people are always shady.
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Old 10-01-07, 11:01 PM
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Thanks for the replies.

Tat2Art...Great Links! Thanks!

I've actually had some really frustrating times lately working on bikes. And some really fun ones, too. I really enjoy doing it, but I get totally messed up when it comes to compatibilty issues.

I bought the wrong stem for the handlebars and didn't really know it until someone had a fit when they saw my bike. Apparently you MUST have the stem close almost completely around the bars. I thought that as long as it was tight, then it was just goofy looking--not unsafe.

I'm running into LBS people telling me things won't work, but not telling me why... why won't a 9 speed derailleur work on my 7 speed bike since it does already and all I'm doing is replacing the cassette? Well, they didn't say it wouldn't work--but it caused some concern for some reason and they said it would be very tricky to get adjusted and I shouldn't do it myself. So I gave in and let them do it, thinking I would figure out what they are talking about as I maintain it.

Suicide shifters, suicide stems, Uniglide hubs, Shimano 600/Ultegra era confusion... the list goes on! Every modification I try to make seems to have a ripple effect on the chain, and the derailleur, and that BB sure needs to get swapped out a lot for something that's very hard to remove!

But I sure like it when I'm actually wrenching and cleaning. There's nothing I like better than to sit in my workshop with the radio on, taking my time and just making things better. Bikes are just pretty, and elegant, and I just really think they're cool.

Rant finished. Sorry, but that LBS made me feel very stupid and for a while I thought, "I shouldn't be messing with bikes--I don't know what I'm doing."
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Old 10-01-07, 11:06 PM
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Could the chain be slack because of a worn/weak spring in the rear derailluer? Just something to look at, before removing chain links.

For 8mm crank bolts, one of THESE with a ratchet will work. Or more traditionaly, one of THESE would be what you're after.
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Old 10-01-07, 11:10 PM
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Yes, we've ALL been there...you may feel stupid, but you learn by doing. Keep doing it and keep learning. I still learn new things everyday about bikes, AND I still feel stupid about something (often related to my bike knowledge/ignorance) everyday, too. Don't be discouraged.
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