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The Etiquette of Drafting

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The Etiquette of Drafting

Old 12-06-21, 12:12 PM
  #126  
Maelochs
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz
Lions what would you do if someone told you they were on your wheel? I sometimes ask and sometimes just say hi and then tell them im on their wheel. Nobody has been like "get off" lol. most people are like "thanks for letting me know." I agree that being a silent ninja drafter is a dick move.
I would ask you not to draft because AI don't maintain a steady pace and (particularly when my heart protests) I will sit up without warning because my heart said, "Go ahead--I've stopped once, I'll do it again."

Last thing I need is to be finishing a speed run and get hammered from behind because I didn't want my heart to explode.

Originally Posted by LarrySellerz
Frankly IMO if youre fast enough to draft I assume you are experienced and know what's going on, and if someone is confidant enough to latch onto your wheel they have the skills to save it if you emergency stop.
Good luck with that. I know there are a lot of Cat 1 riders who are complete dicks .... a guy on the Internet told me.
Originally Posted by LarrySellerz
The group I ride with is full of cat 1s and we pass people way too closely, from talking with local cyclists we scare the crap out of them sometimes so I totally get that some people are more comfortable with riding close than others.
Yeah ... super.

Why do you ride with this bunch of dangerous and inconsiderate egotists? You can say you are not like them .... but you are. You pass "way too closely," by your own admission, and freak out less experienced riders. Yo are part of that group and support what they do by doing it with them.

I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are only a total ignorant richard when you are with those guys ... but that is like saying, "I am only a Nazi at Party meetings."

A group of riders which deliberately and knowingly interferes with and deliberately scares other riders .... yeah, just super. That is what the sport needs.
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Old 12-06-21, 12:13 PM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
They sound like complete a-holes.
They are. Other riders tell me they've had the swarm pass them and then turn right immediately ahead, forcing them to stop. I think I was passed by them once, because I generally don't ride on Saturdays, but I can tell you, it's intimidating.
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Old 12-06-21, 12:15 PM
  #128  
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Can we steer the discussion in the direction of the politics of dancing?
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Old 12-06-21, 12:17 PM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
I would ask you not to draft because AI don't maintain a steady pace and (particularly when my heart protests) I will sit up without warning because my heart said, "Go ahead--I've stopped once, I'll do it again."

Last thing I need is to be finishing a speed run and get hammered from behind because I didn't want my heart to explode.

Good luck with that. I know there are a lot of Cat 1 riders who are complete dicks .... a guy on the Internet told me. Yeah ... super.

Why do you ride with this bunch of dangerous and inconsiderate egotists? You can say you are not like them .... but you are. You pass "way too closely," by your own admission, and freak out less experienced riders. Yo are part of that group and support what they do by doing it with them.

I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are only a total ignorant richard when you are with those guys ... but that is like saying, "I am only a Nazi at Party meetings."

A group of riders which deliberately and knowingly interferes with and deliberately scares other riders .... yeah, just super. That is what the sport needs.
In fairness, they did blame the lady when they put her in the hospital. I'm sure we can rely on their assessment of blame. /s
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Old 12-06-21, 12:18 PM
  #130  
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I've told them that we scare people and need to pass with more room but I have no clout because i'm on a hybrid with no shirt and (until recently) no helmet. its the best/fastest group around though so of course keeping up with them is the goal
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Old 12-06-21, 12:20 PM
  #131  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
I would ask you not to draft because AI don't maintain a steady pace and (particularly when my heart protests) I will sit up without warning because my heart said, "Go ahead--I've stopped once, I'll do it again."

Last thing I need is to be finishing a speed run and get hammered from behind because I didn't want my heart to explode.

Good luck with that. I know there are a lot of Cat 1 riders who are complete dicks .... a guy on the Internet told me. Yeah ... super.

Why do you ride with this bunch of dangerous and inconsiderate egotists? You can say you are not like them .... but you are. You pass "way too closely," by your own admission, and freak out less experienced riders. Yo are part of that group and support what they do by doing it with them.

I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are only a total ignorant richard when you are with those guys ... but that is like saying, "I am only a Nazi at Party meetings."

A group of riders which deliberately and knowingly interferes with and deliberately scares other riders .... yeah, just super. That is what the sport needs.
They are poor ambassadors for the sport, but I don't think they do it deliberately. I think they just don't realize what they're doing. My observation is there are often 1 or 2 at the front, but the width of the pack swells considerably behind that so that by the time you're 5 or 6 bike lengths back the pack is the width of the traffic lane. Everyone is concentrating on the wheels and riders ahead of them and not getting dropped and so if the guys up front pass 6 feet or more away from a rider they're passing, the widest part of the pack is going to be practically rubbing shoulders with the poor person being passed.

Not excusing, because they are a-holes who ride like there's nobody else on the road, on the busiest cycling day and time of the week.
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Old 12-06-21, 12:20 PM
  #132  
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Originally Posted by genejockey
Okay, let me make official then - Please don't draft me. I'll be the big old bastard on one of 9 different bikes.

Trust me, Larry - this time of year, you don't want to draft me. Cool air makes my nose run like a faucet. I was leading the monthly SF Peninsula C&V ride on Saturday, and it was TORTURE not to be able blow my nose. You can only get so far wiping your nose on your glove and then your glove on your bibs.
I should have joined you I just got a sick steel bianchi 2 days ago
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Old 12-06-21, 12:25 PM
  #133  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz
I should have joined you I just got a sick steel bianchi yesterday
It's a bit of a dawdle. Works out nicely for me as a recovery ride, but we don't drop anyone, so it can get slow on some of the hills.

But please wear a shirt.
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Old 12-06-21, 12:27 PM
  #134  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz
I've told them that we scare people and need to pass with more room but I have no clout because i'm on a hybrid with no shirt and (until recently) no helmet. its the best/fastest group around though so of course keeping up with them is the goal
I think the problem is that it literally anarchy, as I understand it. There's no associated club, there's no designated ride leader, just a meetup time and a route.
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Old 12-06-21, 12:29 PM
  #135  
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Originally Posted by genejockey
It's a bit of a dawdle. Works out nicely for me as a recovery ride, but we don't drop anyone, so it can get slow on some of the hills.

But please wear a shirt.
? Id just sweat through it. Too many barriers to entry in this sport and we have people asking others to wear a shirt..... The racers never asked me to wear a shirt, only the club rides. And yeah spectrum is anarchy, there are no rules or ride leader, if it slows down enough that people like me can hang on it can get dicy, its safer when it doesn't drop below 23 mph. People try to reform it but the ride its too large. its beautiful.
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Old 12-06-21, 12:31 PM
  #136  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz
? Id just sweat through it. Too many barriers to entry in this sport and we have people asking others to wear a shirt..... The racers never asked me to wear a shirt, only the club rides.
It's not a barrier to entry into the sport, don't be silly. Nobody's stopping you riding. It's respecting the group you riding with.
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Old 12-06-21, 12:38 PM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by genejockey
It's not a barrier to entry into the sport, don't be silly. Nobody's stopping you riding. It's respecting the group you riding with.
How is not wearing a shirt disrespectful? If it gets too cold I'll just take my socks off and wear them as mittens, but it doesn't get cold enough around here to need a shirt.
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Old 12-06-21, 12:46 PM
  #138  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz
How is not wearing a shirt disrespectful? If it gets too cold I'll just take my socks off and wear them as mittens, but it doesn't get cold enough around here to need a shirt.
Because we asked you to. It's disrespectful to join a group and not abide by that group's rules. Nobody's holding a gun to your head to join the group, so you're completely free to ride shirtless wherever else you like.
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Old 12-06-21, 12:55 PM
  #139  
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I only do an uninvited draft after I recognize that the rider has a consistent pace and at a power level that shows me that they are experienced, typically >230watts sustained, and that they've at least seen me back there, so they don't make any quick stops. The same hold true for someone drafting me, if they can keep up with me, I assume they have some experience being back there, but you never know. Stuff happens even with people you know drafting behind, or you behind them.
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Old 12-06-21, 12:59 PM
  #140  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz
Frankly IMO if youre fast enough to draft I assume you are experienced and know what's going on, and if someone is confidant enough to latch onto your wheel they have the skills to save it if you emergency stop.
Says the guy that's got multiple crash reports on-file.
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Old 12-06-21, 01:05 PM
  #141  
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Originally Posted by genejockey
Because we asked you to. It's disrespectful to join a group and not abide by that group's rules. Nobody's holding a gun to your head to join the group, so you're completely free to ride shirtless wherever else you like.
None of the fast groups (noon ride, morning ride, penvelo, spectrum) have asked me to wear a shirt. Only the alto velo ride that takes up the entire road going 10 mph between sprints. if the bike forums vintage ride wants me to wear a shirt then LOL.
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Old 12-06-21, 01:08 PM
  #142  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
Says the guy that's got multiple crash reports on-file.
You try holding a soft drink while delivering in snow, it was BS, of course I crashed a lot
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Old 12-06-21, 01:11 PM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz
You try holding a soft drink while delivering in snow, it was BS, of course I crashed a lot
So we shouldn't factor crashes if it was poor judgement that lead to them? Got it.
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Old 12-06-21, 01:15 PM
  #144  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz
None of the fast groups (noon ride, morning ride, penvelo, spectrum) have asked me to wear a shirt. Only the alto velo ride that takes up the entire road going 10 mph between sprints. if the bike forums vintage ride wants me to wear a shirt then LOL I should respect their wishes, if I want to join, or not join if I can't or won't..
ftfy. It's part of being an adult - respect.
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Old 12-06-21, 01:20 PM
  #145  
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One thing I like about the internet is that while it is in real time, it is also a record of history. So when people make a post ... then more posts ... then more, one can look back and see patterns.
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Old 12-06-21, 01:41 PM
  #146  
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Originally Posted by Badger6
Fact as stated.
Though wasn't originally the argument that it's a traffic law that you aren't allowed to follow too closely? IOW, if a bunch of car drivers all agree to follow each other really closely, then it isn't illegal? It's only when it's not desired, and of course the po po read minds.
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Old 12-06-21, 01:41 PM
  #147  
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I just remembered this thread has the word etiquette in the title.

Do people ride like they post, or post like they would like to ride?

John
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Old 12-06-21, 01:48 PM
  #148  
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I do everything like I post, which is why I ride alone .... nobody wants me around.

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Old 12-06-21, 01:52 PM
  #149  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz
You try holding a soft drink while delivering in snow, it was BS, of course I crashed a lot
You try texting while driving in snow, it was BS, of course I crashed a lot.
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Old 12-06-21, 01:55 PM
  #150  
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Originally Posted by genejockey
ftfy. It's part of being an adult - respect.
This elitism is part of what turns people off from road cycling. If you showed up with no shirt to an outdoor soccer, basketball game etc or a mountain bike ride nobody would bat an eye.
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