Birdy thread
06-20-22, 08:19 AM
#1726
Full Member
Thanks Jipe
I talked to my bicycle mechanic and he said it will not be a problem to switch it to Ahimano hub with 135mm and disk brakes. My understanding it’s a matter of choosing a system, Shimano or XDR, right? Shimano is widely available in Turkey while I’m not so sure about XDR hubs/cassettes.
I talked to my bicycle mechanic and he said it will not be a problem to switch it to Ahimano hub with 135mm and disk brakes. My understanding it’s a matter of choosing a system, Shimano or XDR, right? Shimano is widely available in Turkey while I’m not so sure about XDR hubs/cassettes.
If you want a large gear range reasonably cheap, have you considered going 2 x 10/11 speed? You could get something like 450% range with an 11-36 cassette and double chainrings. Those cassettes should be available most places.
Last edited by glye; 06-20-22 at 08:27 AM.
06-20-22, 09:13 AM
#1727
Full Member
Note that Shimano now has at least two systems, the old HG standard, up to 11-speed, and the new Microspline for 12 speed. Apparently there is also HG L2 for 12-speed road.
If you want a large gear range reasonably cheap, have you considered going 2 x 10/11 speed? You could get something like 450% range with an 11-36 cassette and double chainrings. Those cassettes should be available most places.
If you want a large gear range reasonably cheap, have you considered going 2 x 10/11 speed? You could get something like 450% range with an 11-36 cassette and double chainrings. Those cassettes should be available most places.
Last edited by CEBEP; 06-20-22 at 10:17 AM.
06-20-22, 10:16 AM
#1728
Full Member
Just placed the order today for R&M touring Birdy with hub dynamo, front and rear supernovas, fenders and rear folding rack for EUR 1764 after tax refund. Bike was on display but is apparently in as new condition. Will pick it up this weekend. Did I have a good deal?
Last edited by CEBEP; 06-20-22 at 10:37 AM.
06-20-22, 12:32 PM
#1729
Full Member
Congrats! That sounds like a great deal. In Germany the base model goes for 1000 € more than that. In Norway, even more. Happy rides!
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06-20-22, 01:53 PM
#1731
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Yes, its an excellent deal, the official R&M price is now 2849€ and its without rear rack.
Indeed, Shimano has also a new freewheel body that accepts 10t smallest cog, the microspline. But its only used for the 12s MTB, not for road and there are only big MTB cassettes, the smallest is 10-45, most are 10-50 or above 50.
And during the first years, Shimano made it very difficult for third parties to obtain a license to use microspline to make hubs or cassettes.
If you decide to go for the 9-32t 11s solution with Shimano derailleur (BTW, you can also use a Shimano 105 RD-5800 derailleur which is cheaper than the Ultegra and very similar only slightly heavier) this shop has a very good price for the 3T/Ethirteen 9-32 cassette.
Indeed, Shimano has also a new freewheel body that accepts 10t smallest cog, the microspline. But its only used for the 12s MTB, not for road and there are only big MTB cassettes, the smallest is 10-45, most are 10-50 or above 50.
And during the first years, Shimano made it very difficult for third parties to obtain a license to use microspline to make hubs or cassettes.
If you decide to go for the 9-32t 11s solution with Shimano derailleur (BTW, you can also use a Shimano 105 RD-5800 derailleur which is cheaper than the Ultegra and very similar only slightly heavier) this shop has a very good price for the 3T/Ethirteen 9-32 cassette.
06-20-22, 10:56 PM
#1732
Full Member
Thanks Jipe
I’m not sure if I’ll go with Micro Spline as my understanding it’s still a MTB only hubs, hence big cogs. I assume they may adapt it for road bikes too but not yet. Hence will most probably be looking at HG hubs which will also have wider choice of cassettes I assume. Which cassette would you recommend to go with HG?
I’m not sure if I’ll go with Micro Spline as my understanding it’s still a MTB only hubs, hence big cogs. I assume they may adapt it for road bikes too but not yet. Hence will most probably be looking at HG hubs which will also have wider choice of cassettes I assume. Which cassette would you recommend to go with HG?
06-21-22, 12:30 AM
#1733
Full Member
The lighting system is somewhat disappointing. The Shutter Precision SD-8 hub dynamo is designed for small wheels with high rotational speed, and is small, light, and efficient. The Supernova E3 Pure 3 gives good light but doesn't have an off switch. The power drain from always riding with lights on is small, and there are safety benefits even in full daylight, but the rider should make that choice. I could make my own light switch solution, but it's hard to get that properly sealed against water. I may replace the E3 with something better, perhaps the Busch + Müller IQ-XS. Secondly, the way it's mounted it shines on the front carrier, leaving a shadow on the road ahead. It may be hard to find a better spot for it that doesn't leave it vulnerable when the bike is folded, but I'll have to try. Third, it throws no light straight to the sides, for being seen in that direction. It's got good looks but poor functionality.
IMG_20181021_181033419 by gunnsteinlye, on Flickr
The Supernova E3 taillight is bright but tiny, and mounted on the brake caliper where it is easily obscured by the wheel. It's completely unnecessary to use such a quirky minimalist solution when the bike has a rack with a standard light mount and a big flat reflector on it. I'll probably put a decent sized taillight/reflector combination there instead.
IMG_20181021_181047347 by gunnsteinlye, on Flickr
Still, no regrets. The important thing was to have the dynamo wheel in place, lights are easy to swap out. I just wish R&M would have more focus on functionality here and less on stylish looks and minimal weight.
IMG_20181021_181033419 by gunnsteinlye, on Flickr
The Supernova E3 taillight is bright but tiny, and mounted on the brake caliper where it is easily obscured by the wheel. It's completely unnecessary to use such a quirky minimalist solution when the bike has a rack with a standard light mount and a big flat reflector on it. I'll probably put a decent sized taillight/reflector combination there instead.
IMG_20181021_181047347 by gunnsteinlye, on Flickr
Still, no regrets. The important thing was to have the dynamo wheel in place, lights are easy to swap out. I just wish R&M would have more focus on functionality here and less on stylish looks and minimal weight.
06-21-22, 01:07 AM
#1734
Full Member
Hey glye came across your 2018 review of lights. Did you swap them essentially with something else or find a better mounting solution?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gunnst...7700342795322/
I replaced the tiny caliper mounted taillight with a bigger standard carrier mounted light with a reflector. Point shaped light sources give little indication of distance. Bigger (not necessarily brighter) lights makes it easier to judge changing distance for someone who approaches from behind. I had to extend the cable and lead it up to the carrier, making sure nothing is damaged when folding. Not a great photo, but you can see it under the carrier, behind the roller wheel:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gunnst...7700342795322/
06-21-22, 01:12 AM
#1735
Newbie
@glye
The unfortunate thing exactly happened on me. The mount of my front light scratched the frame when I folded the bike and put it into the trunk of my car.
When I took the bike to a nearby bike shop for upgrades, they noticed the scratches and told me that there is a little bottle of original paint included with each Birdy - this was when I found out that the bike shop that I bought my Birdy didn’t give me that bottle of paint. I called them several times and they finally “found” the paint and returned it to me. I tried to fix the scratched part myself but the effect is not optimal. A very hard lesson learnt - think twice before adding accessories to your bike if you need to fold it - and to find a reliable shop to buy your bikes.
Finally I bought another front light with a very safe mount which has no protruding parts whatsoever and it’s in soft material.
The unfortunate thing exactly happened on me. The mount of my front light scratched the frame when I folded the bike and put it into the trunk of my car.
When I took the bike to a nearby bike shop for upgrades, they noticed the scratches and told me that there is a little bottle of original paint included with each Birdy - this was when I found out that the bike shop that I bought my Birdy didn’t give me that bottle of paint. I called them several times and they finally “found” the paint and returned it to me. I tried to fix the scratched part myself but the effect is not optimal. A very hard lesson learnt - think twice before adding accessories to your bike if you need to fold it - and to find a reliable shop to buy your bikes.
Finally I bought another front light with a very safe mount which has no protruding parts whatsoever and it’s in soft material.
Last edited by jackyharuhiko; 06-21-22 at 01:18 AM.
06-21-22, 01:22 AM
#1736
Full Member
@glye
The unfortunate thing exactly happened on me. The mount of my front light scratched the frame when I folded the bike and put it into the trunk of my car.
When I took the bike to a nearby bike shop for upgrades, they noticed the scratches and told me that there is a little bottle of original paint included with each Birdy - this is when I found that the bike shop that I bought my Birdy didn’t give me that bottle of paint. I called them several times and they finally “found” the paint and returned it to me. I tried to fix the scratched part myself but the effect is not optimal. A very hard lesson learnt - think twice before adding accessories to your bike if you need to fold it.
The unfortunate thing exactly happened on me. The mount of my front light scratched the frame when I folded the bike and put it into the trunk of my car.
When I took the bike to a nearby bike shop for upgrades, they noticed the scratches and told me that there is a little bottle of original paint included with each Birdy - this is when I found that the bike shop that I bought my Birdy didn’t give me that bottle of paint. I called them several times and they finally “found” the paint and returned it to me. I tried to fix the scratched part myself but the effect is not optimal. A very hard lesson learnt - think twice before adding accessories to your bike if you need to fold it.
06-21-22, 01:38 AM
#1737
Full Member
jackyharuhiko do you mean your stock Supernova light scratched the frame as you folded the bike?
06-21-22, 01:48 AM
#1738
Newbie
jackyharuhiko do you mean your stock Supernova light scratched the frame as you folded the bike?
this is the mount - supposedly for this kind of mounts there should be some plastic to cover the end of the screw but I couldn’t find it in the package. Buyers beware.
06-21-22, 02:33 AM
#1739
Full Member
Huh, I'm pretty sure I didn't get that bottle, either. But I could have forgotten it. If I were to replace the light I would put one on the handlepost, above any lowrider cargo but below the handlebar bag I sometimes use. So it would be mounted low on the handlepost. But that's a precarious position when folding. I might then have to somehow fold the light mount as well. It would complicate things.
Dynamo hub will always have resistance, even when not under load. While going through E3 Pure3 specs I noticed they mentioned about daylight. If this model has light sensor and switches to daylight automatically, daylight LEDs should have less lumens = less hub resistance during daytime.
06-21-22, 03:00 AM
#1740
Full Member
I believe the light can be upgraded to say E3 PRO 2 which has a switch, or Edelux II which would definitely be my choice. However if frame is in the way of a beam it’s an issue. Maybe the light can be positioned a little higher up using extender bracket but I’ll need to see how it will effect the fold.
Dynamo hub will always have resistance, even when not under load. While going through E3 Pure3 specs I noticed they mentioned about daylight. If this model has light sensor and switches to daylight automatically, daylight LEDs should have less lumens = less hub resistance during daytime.
I added more pictures about my custom switch and taillight (Busch & Müller Toplight View). I can switch the light with my foot while riding, but mostly I avoid that, to not risk damaging anything.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gunnst...7700342795322/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gunnst...7700342795322/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gunnst...7700342795322/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gunnst...7700342795322/
06-21-22, 03:17 AM
#1741
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Thanks Jipe
I’m not sure if I’ll go with Micro Spline as my understanding it’s still a MTB only hubs, hence big cogs. I assume they may adapt it for road bikes too but not yet. Hence will most probably be looking at HG hubs which will also have wider choice of cassettes I assume. Which cassette would you recommend to go with HG?
I’m not sure if I’ll go with Micro Spline as my understanding it’s still a MTB only hubs, hence big cogs. I assume they may adapt it for road bikes too but not yet. Hence will most probably be looking at HG hubs which will also have wider choice of cassettes I assume. Which cassette would you recommend to go with HG?
Currently, 12s is a mess, each manufacturer has its own "standard" incompatible with the others. Shimano has even two 12s "standard" one for MTB and one for road + a new in 11s and 10s for ebike with specific cassette, derailleur and shifter called Linkglide !
For the light of the Birdy, I still use the Supernova solution, its good enough for me, I do not have a front low rider carrier but a Brompton front block adapter from H&H and the always on light isn't a problem for me.
A better front light would be the SON Edelux II that has a On/OFF switch and also an automatic ON/OFF system with a light sensor. Note that the Supernova rear light work only with a Supernova front light, it requires the rear light output of a Supernova front light and cannot be connected to a hub dynamo output directly, so changing the front light for another brand than Supernova requires to also change the rear light.
Supernova announced almost one year ago a powerful new M99 DY Pro dynamo front light but its not available yet (and very expensive).
Last edited by Jipe; 06-21-22 at 03:25 AM.
06-21-22, 03:37 AM
#1742
Full Member
A better front light would be the SON Edelux II that has a On/OFF switch and also an automatic ON/OFF system with a light sensor. Note that the Supernova rear light work only with a Supernova front light, it requires the rear light output of a Supernova front light and cannot be connected to a hub dynamo output directly, so changing the front light for another brand than Supernova requires to also change the rear light.
Once I’ll get the bike and show it to my mechanic I will have understanding of what Shimano hub / cassette choices I have locally. I will then post results here to get comments from community.
06-21-22, 04:37 AM
#1743
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No, it won't work.
The rear light output of all front dynamo light excepted Supernova is AC voltage as coming from the dynamo hub while the rear light output of the Supernova front light and input of the Supernova rear lights is DC voltage.
For the Shimano hub, only the new Mircospline accept 10t smallest cog, no 9t cod and as already said the cassette with the smallest biggest cog has a 45t biggest cog too big for the Birdy (the chain rub against the right rear arm). 11t smallest cog gives a too short longest gear inch with the 52t front chainring and would require a huge chainring with about 63t to have the same gear inch as 52x9.
Its the reason to choose XD or XDR for which there are cassettes with 9t and 10t smallest cog and not too big biggest cog. Campagnolo Ekar has also this type of cassettes but requires a very rare Campagnolo n3w freewheel
The rear light output of all front dynamo light excepted Supernova is AC voltage as coming from the dynamo hub while the rear light output of the Supernova front light and input of the Supernova rear lights is DC voltage.
For the Shimano hub, only the new Mircospline accept 10t smallest cog, no 9t cod and as already said the cassette with the smallest biggest cog has a 45t biggest cog too big for the Birdy (the chain rub against the right rear arm). 11t smallest cog gives a too short longest gear inch with the 52t front chainring and would require a huge chainring with about 63t to have the same gear inch as 52x9.
Its the reason to choose XD or XDR for which there are cassettes with 9t and 10t smallest cog and not too big biggest cog. Campagnolo Ekar has also this type of cassettes but requires a very rare Campagnolo n3w freewheel
06-21-22, 05:28 AM
#1744
Full Member
I have the Busch & Müller Toplight View tail light connected to the output of the stock Supernova E3. That is working fine. It seems at least some lights of some other brands are able to work with the Supernova output.
I am generally happy with Busch & Müller. The Luxos U 70/90 lux is very good. If I was going to replace the stock supernova on the Birdy, I might go for the IQ-XS 70/80 lux. https://dynamolights.com/busch-and-m...lumotec-iq-xs/
I am generally happy with Busch & Müller. The Luxos U 70/90 lux is very good. If I was going to replace the stock supernova on the Birdy, I might go for the IQ-XS 70/80 lux. https://dynamolights.com/busch-and-m...lumotec-iq-xs/
06-21-22, 06:55 AM
#1745
Full Member
Or I can keep using Sunrace hub/cassette and call it a day. I discussed with shop I ordered birdy from and they said they didn’t have quality complaint regarding Sunrace hub. It might be isolated though repeated case with glye
And my understanding is that R&M can keep supplying cassettes to the Birdy touring. Well, they must do it at least for 10 years after it’s discontinued according to law.
And my understanding is that R&M can keep supplying cassettes to the Birdy touring. Well, they must do it at least for 10 years after it’s discontinued according to law.
06-21-22, 07:25 AM
#1746
Full Member
I have the Busch & Müller Toplight View tail light connected to the output of the stock Supernova E3. That is working fine. It seems at least some lights of some other brands are able to work with the Supernova output.
I am generally happy with Busch & Müller. The Luxos U 70/90 lux is very good. If I was going to replace the stock supernova on the Birdy, I might go for the IQ-XS 70/80 lux. https://dynamolights.com/busch-and-m...lumotec-iq-xs/
I am generally happy with Busch & Müller. The Luxos U 70/90 lux is very good. If I was going to replace the stock supernova on the Birdy, I might go for the IQ-XS 70/80 lux. https://dynamolights.com/busch-and-m...lumotec-iq-xs/
06-21-22, 10:44 AM
#1747
Full Member
Is there any specific recommendations to ship Birdy in checkin baggage? I’ll take delivery in Italy, put it in my suitcase and check it in. Is there anything I need to pay attention to while packing it up? Maybe remove a wheel(s), seat post?
Thanks.
Thanks.
06-21-22, 11:38 AM
#1748
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Bikes: Brompton H6, Schwinn Mirada, Cruzbike Sofrider. Used to own: ICE B1, 2 F-frame Moultons, Koga Myata Elevation 5000 mtb, Challenge Hurricane, Riese & Mueller Birdy Silver, Actionbent Tidalwave 3
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How much you need to disassemble will depend on the suitcase you have. I had a Birdy Classic, that I packed a few times into a borrowed 29" Samsonite and later in a cheapo semi-hardside case I bought. For both I needed to remove the handlebars (if you have a adjustable stem that would be easier, as it should just slide out), take out the seatpost, and remove both wheels. I removed the pedals, derailleurs, and axle quick-releases also. The wheels need careful placement to protect the frame (and the wheels) - you'll need some foam or other padding or something to put between frame & wheels. It's not a difficult process, but it take a little while (30-40 mins?) and there are guides with photos online.
06-22-22, 04:10 AM
#1749
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I had the Busch & Müller Toplight View mounted on my Brompton and had repetitive reliability issues with it: after riding about on tear with it, no standlight anymore (light goes immediately OFF when stopping). I opened one of the Busch & Müller Toplight View that had the problem and discovered that the issue is the big super-capacity that provide the energy for standlight, its not soldered on the printed circuit board but snapped between the PCB and a metal strip. Th problem is that the super-capacity is relatively heavy and with the vibrations while riding the metal strip doesn't hold the supercap firm enough against the PCB -> bad contact, no standlight anymore.
And its difficult to open the plastic casing of the Busch & Müller Toplight View that is glued without destroying/damaging it.
I have now a SON rear light instead.
For the the Supernova E3 Pro2, its diameter is the same as the E3 Pure 3 but its much deeper, not sure it will fit on the Birdy ?
What case or bag do you have to carry your Birdy?
And its difficult to open the plastic casing of the Busch & Müller Toplight View that is glued without destroying/damaging it.
I have now a SON rear light instead.
For the the Supernova E3 Pro2, its diameter is the same as the E3 Pure 3 but its much deeper, not sure it will fit on the Birdy ?
What case or bag do you have to carry your Birdy?