Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

A lot of the recent "innovation" is a bad bargain for anyone not pushing a competitiv

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

A lot of the recent "innovation" is a bad bargain for anyone not pushing a competitiv

Old 07-06-22, 09:13 AM
  #601  
genejockey 
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
 
genejockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 11,385

Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6246 Post(s)
Liked 6,597 Times in 3,383 Posts
Originally Posted by beng1 View Post
A light aero bike is not going to make a non-competitive rider competitive. I am not a competitive rider, I have no ability to win, and that goes for 99.99% of all riders. So it is a waste for anyone unless they have a chance at winning, a waste for 99.99% of all riders. So those arguing that modern bicycles are worth wasting time and money on will always be over 99% wrong. Me dumping five-grand on a time-trial bike so I can go 22mph instead of 19mph would be idiotic. And since it takes someone who can go around 30mph average or more to win most time-trials, even those little local events most will never hear of, it is also a waste of time and money for someone to dump thousands into a TT bike if it will only get them to say 28mph from maybe 25 or 26mph average. Still going from not good enough to still not good enough. And if it is a waste for those who are that fast, it is absolutely a waste for anyone who does not race at all, who just rides around the roads and city for fun. But of course lots still buy bikes which will always be much better bikes than they are riders, and if they are lucky they are common hipsters and not suckers, because at least then they will get to pose for other hipsters, where the suckers will never get anything for their money.
Lordy, what a silly, elitist attitude. But it's not even the usual "I'm better than you" elitism, it's "I'm not worthy! And by extension neither are you!" elitism. Enjoying something simple, like being able to climb a hill faster, or go more miles in less time with less effort is a waste? What nonsense!
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."

"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
genejockey is offline  
Likes For genejockey:
Old 07-06-22, 09:41 AM
  #602  
GamblerGORD53
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Elevation 666m Edmonton Canada
Posts: 2,007

Bikes: 2013 Custom SA5w / Rohloff Tourster

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 933 Post(s)
Liked 160 Times in 130 Posts
Last week I went to the top LBS here, they have all kinds of bikes. So I walked up to a nice MTB and looked at the tag ....$10,499...
Another customer was there and said go look over there...Full sus 29er with hidden suspension >> Only $20,499 + 5% tax. It had knobby tires near 3" I guess. The chain was thinly coated with nickel or something.
Any takers here?? LOL.

Then I managed to get my SA XL-RD5w working perfect again, yay. Went for a 100 mile ride at 50+ lbs of new steel roadster. Only 9Hr42 minutes with my usual slow sight seeing after lunch and 2 icecream breaks on the way home. 2 years ago this hub was on my 73 lb tour bike, had a similar 100 mile time and then had 33.6 more miles to finish in 12Hr20 min. LOL. WTF needs a light bike??

Last edited by GamblerGORD53; 07-06-22 at 09:45 AM.
GamblerGORD53 is offline  
Old 07-06-22, 09:46 AM
  #603  
Germany_chris
Iím a little Surly
 
Germany_chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Southern Germany
Posts: 1,945

Bikes: Two Cross Checks and a Karate Monkey

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 486 Post(s)
Liked 863 Times in 450 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
That $5000 figure only makes sense if you're talking about being competitive at the MOST elite level. "I wouldn't ride it on the TdF" means that it's dumpster worthy?
I can confirm I've got ~5k in my Cross Check and its definitely dumpster worthy
Germany_chris is offline  
Old 07-06-22, 10:18 AM
  #604  
livedarklions
High Performance Noodler
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 13,204

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6874 Post(s)
Liked 6,795 Times in 3,824 Posts
Originally Posted by Kapusta View Post
I hear the TdF dumpsters are quite exclusive.

La Poubelle de France
livedarklions is offline  
Old 07-06-22, 10:22 AM
  #605  
livedarklions
High Performance Noodler
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 13,204

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6874 Post(s)
Liked 6,795 Times in 3,824 Posts
Originally Posted by Germany_chris View Post
I can confirm I've got ~5k in my Cross Check and its definitely dumpster worthy

I guess I'm still trying to work out if dumpster worthy means it's good or it's bad.
livedarklions is offline  
Likes For livedarklions:
Old 07-06-22, 10:33 AM
  #606  
tomato coupe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,419

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2144 Post(s)
Liked 3,600 Times in 1,477 Posts
Originally Posted by GamblerGORD53 View Post
Last week I went to the top LBS here, they have all kinds of bikes. So I walked up to a nice MTB and looked at the tag ....$10,499...
Another customer was there and said go look over there...Full sus 29er with hidden suspension >> Only $20,499 + 5% tax. It had knobby tires near 3" I guess. The chain was thinly coated with nickel or something.
Any takers here?? LOL.

Then I managed to get my SA XL-RD5w working perfect again, yay. Went for a 100 mile ride at 50+ lbs of new steel roadster. Only 9Hr42 minutes with my usual slow sight seeing after lunch and 2 icecream breaks on the way home. 2 years ago this hub was on my 73 lb tour bike, had a similar 100 mile time and then had 33.6 more miles to finish in 12Hr20 min. LOL. WTF needs a light bike??
You realize that a lot of people do centuries in half that time? For them, a $10k bike may be worth it.
tomato coupe is offline  
Old 07-06-22, 11:01 AM
  #607  
Trakhak
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 3,248
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1187 Post(s)
Liked 1,098 Times in 640 Posts
Complaints about hipsters (?) and suckers buying expensive bikes, translated:

"As far as the cool kids in high school were concerned, I didn't exist. Now, decades later, the cool kids ride expensive bikes, and I'm still invisible to them. It's not fair."
Trakhak is offline  
Old 07-06-22, 11:17 AM
  #608  
livedarklions
High Performance Noodler
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 13,204

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6874 Post(s)
Liked 6,795 Times in 3,824 Posts
Originally Posted by Trakhak View Post
Complaints about hipsters (?) and suckers buying expensive bikes, translated:

"As far as the cool kids in high school were concerned, I didn't exist. Now, decades later, the cool kids ride expensive bikes, and I'm still invisible to them. It's not fair."

Sorry, but that's as stupid as what you're reacting to.

Lots of "cool kids" grow up to be judgmental whatevers calling people names for not doing what they'd do.

And sorry, but if you think bikes of any value project coolness widely in the U.S., I got news for you.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 07-06-22, 11:31 AM
  #609  
base2 
Doesn't brain good.
 
base2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 2,101

Bikes: 5 good ones, and the occasional project.

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1119 Post(s)
Liked 779 Times in 461 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
And sorry, but if you think bikes of any value project coolness widely in the U.S., I got news for you.
Lol

It's funny 'cause it's true.
__________________
My lights are obscenely bright because drivers are dim.

I shouldn't have to "make myself more visible;" Drivers should just stop running people over.
base2 is offline  
Likes For base2:
Old 07-06-22, 12:30 PM
  #610  
GhostRider62
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 2,724
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1602 Post(s)
Liked 1,321 Times in 830 Posts
Originally Posted by Kapusta View Post
Wut?
5 grand gets you the groupset

Where you been?
GhostRider62 is online now  
Old 07-06-22, 12:37 PM
  #611  
GhostRider62
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 2,724
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1602 Post(s)
Liked 1,321 Times in 830 Posts
Originally Posted by timtak View Post
Are there road bikes which facilitate less energy expenditure? Are there are any aero road bikes, recently?

I want to save up for a second hand one one, if they exist.
I am not sure if I understand your question

As bike technology evolved, there were a lot of improvements compared to a downtube shifted steel bike. There have not been many changes that were regressive IMO. Optimization of energy expenditure is a complex topic and is somewhat rider specific. Someone interested in time trials won't be happy on the most efficient lightweight gravel bike.
GhostRider62 is online now  
Old 07-06-22, 01:39 PM
  #612  
genejockey 
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
 
genejockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 11,385

Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6246 Post(s)
Liked 6,597 Times in 3,383 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I guess I'm still trying to work out if dumpster worthy means it's good or it's bad.
Is it like Spongeworthy?
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."

"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
genejockey is offline  
Likes For genejockey:
Old 07-06-22, 01:54 PM
  #613  
livedarklions
High Performance Noodler
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 13,204

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6874 Post(s)
Liked 6,795 Times in 3,824 Posts
Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
Is it like Spongeworthy?

I think you may need a refresher on the purposes of contraception.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 07-06-22, 02:17 PM
  #614  
genejockey 
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
 
genejockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 11,385

Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6246 Post(s)
Liked 6,597 Times in 3,383 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I think you may need a refresher on the purposes of contraception.
At the age Mrs. GeneJockey and I have attained, I don't imagine it's necessary.
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."

"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
genejockey is offline  
Likes For genejockey:
Old 07-06-22, 02:21 PM
  #615  
livedarklions
High Performance Noodler
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 13,204

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6874 Post(s)
Liked 6,795 Times in 3,824 Posts
Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
At the age Mrs. GeneJockey and I have attained, I don't imagine it's necessary.

While I don't object to what people do with their consenting bikes....
livedarklions is offline  
Old 07-06-22, 02:24 PM
  #616  
genejockey 
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
 
genejockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 11,385

Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6246 Post(s)
Liked 6,597 Times in 3,383 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
While I don't object to what people do with their consenting bikes....
Most of my bikes are above the age of consent.
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."

"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
genejockey is offline  
Likes For genejockey:
Old 07-06-22, 07:07 PM
  #617  
timtak
Senior Member
 
timtak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Yamaguchi City, Japan
Posts: 984

Bikes: Trek Madone 5.2 SL 2007, Look KG386, R022 Re-framed Azzurri Primo, Felt Z5, Trek F7.3 FX

Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 333 Post(s)
Liked 54 Times in 47 Posts
Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
I am not sure if I understand your question

As bike technology evolved, there were a lot of improvements compared to a downtube shifted steel bike. There have not been many changes that were regressive IMO. Optimization of energy expenditure is a complex topic and is somewhat rider specific. Someone interested in time trials won't be happy on the most efficient lightweight gravel bike.
Do you work in a bike shop?

I agree that brifters are a technological advance, for me at least, but I have still to become aware of a technologically improved road bike (not a gravel bike, not a bike for riding on cordoned off roads i.e. time trial bike) over those from about the turn of the century.

I think that this may be the "fast paved road rocket with electronic shifting" that Kapusta mentions but I don't think that they exist, or at least I have yet to see one.

For all its wind-tunnel engineering the Roubollox puts the rider in a very unaerodynamic position, so I presume it is way of fleecing, or is that satisfying, aficionados who feel "quality" proportionate to the amount of time, effort, skill, calculation etc., that went into the production of the bike rather than suitability to the task -- fast.

Here is a bike to beat

Seven by Timothy Takemoto, on Flickr
It was about 450 USD second hand. I think it is very little better, and more fragile, than steel tubed bikes made in the latter part of the 20th century, but they tend to be more expensive and it is a long time since i have ridden one.

Last edited by timtak; 07-06-22 at 08:11 PM.
timtak is offline  
Old 07-06-22, 09:00 PM
  #618  
Kapusta
Advanced Slacker
 
Kapusta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 5,608

Bikes: Soma Fog Cutter, Surly Wednesday, Turner 5-Spot, Canfielld Tilt

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2507 Post(s)
Liked 2,138 Times in 1,196 Posts
Originally Posted by timtak View Post
I think that this may be the "fast paved road rocket with electronic shifting" that Kapusta mentions but I don't think that they exist, or at least I have yet to see one.
.
Wut?
Kapusta is offline  
Likes For Kapusta:
Old 07-06-22, 09:14 PM
  #619  
tomato coupe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,419

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2144 Post(s)
Liked 3,600 Times in 1,477 Posts
I don't think that's a bike to beat, it's a bike to avoid.
Originally Posted by timtak View Post
Here is a bike to beat
tomato coupe is offline  
Old 07-06-22, 10:25 PM
  #620  
LarrySellerz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 1,175
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1555 Post(s)
Liked 256 Times in 187 Posts
what an epically successful troll thread
LarrySellerz is offline  
Old 07-07-22, 05:02 AM
  #621  
BCDrums
Recreational Road Cyclist
 
BCDrums's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: MetroWest, Mass.
Posts: 450

Bikes: 1990 Peter Mooney road bike

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 203 Post(s)
Liked 146 Times in 93 Posts
Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
what an epically successful troll thread
And you would certainly know about that!
BCDrums is offline  
Old 07-07-22, 05:04 AM
  #622  
timtak
Senior Member
 
timtak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Yamaguchi City, Japan
Posts: 984

Bikes: Trek Madone 5.2 SL 2007, Look KG386, R022 Re-framed Azzurri Primo, Felt Z5, Trek F7.3 FX

Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 333 Post(s)
Liked 54 Times in 47 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
I don't think that's a bike to beat, it's a bike to avoid.
Go on then, show me yours.

Originally Posted by LarrySellerz
what an epically successful troll thread
Are you praising yourself?
timtak is offline  
Old 07-07-22, 06:01 AM
  #623  
Kapusta
Advanced Slacker
 
Kapusta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 5,608

Bikes: Soma Fog Cutter, Surly Wednesday, Turner 5-Spot, Canfielld Tilt

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2507 Post(s)
Liked 2,138 Times in 1,196 Posts
Originally Posted by timtak View Post
Go on then, show me yours.
Dude, put down the tape measure and zip up your pants.
Kapusta is offline  
Old 07-07-22, 07:18 AM
  #624  
Herzlos
Full Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Scotland
Posts: 285

Bikes: Gravel, MTB

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 470 Post(s)
Liked 380 Times in 213 Posts
Originally Posted by timtak View Post
Here is a bike to beat

Seven by Timothy Takemoto, on Flickr
It was about 450 USD second hand. I think it is very little better, and more fragile, than steel tubed bikes made in the latter part of the 20th century, but they tend to be more expensive and it is a long time since i have ridden one.
Ignoring the teeth removing stem, I can't look at that without feeling uncomfortable. I'm not the fittest but I'd hate to try and ride that, even over short distances.

I can't imagine that's actually any faster than any modern equivalent. If that's what bikes all looked like, I'd stick to running, and I HATE running.

(I ride this modern horror: https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/road-b...isc-brake-blue)

Last edited by Herzlos; 07-07-22 at 07:22 AM.
Herzlos is offline  
Likes For Herzlos:
Old 07-07-22, 10:29 AM
  #625  
vespasianus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: In the south but from North
Posts: 521

Bikes: Turner 5-Spot Burner converted; IBIS Ripley, Specialized Crave, Tommasini Sintesi, Cinelli Superstar, Tommasini X-Fire Gravel

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 285 Post(s)
Liked 268 Times in 147 Posts
Originally Posted by beng1 View Post
A light aero bike is not going to make a non-competitive rider competitive. I am not a competitive rider, I have no ability to win, and that goes for 99.99% of all riders. So it is a waste for anyone unless they have a chance at winning, a waste for 99.99% of all riders. So those arguing that modern bicycles are worth wasting time and money on will always be over 99% wrong. Me dumping five-grand on a time-trial bike so I can go 22mph instead of 19mph would be idiotic. And since it takes someone who can go around 30mph average or more to win most time-trials, even those little local events most will never hear of, it is also a waste of time and money for someone to dump thousands into a TT bike if it will only get them to say 28mph from maybe 25 or 26mph average. Still going from not good enough to still not good enough. And if it is a waste for those who are that fast, it is absolutely a waste for anyone who does not race at all, who just rides around the roads and city for fun. But of course lots still buy bikes which will always be much better bikes than they are riders, and if they are lucky they are common hipsters and not suckers, because at least then they will get to pose for other hipsters, where the suckers will never get anything for their money.
It is not about winning or loosing but about having fun and enjoyment. If an aero bar reduces your power output and lets you go further and feel better durning and after a ride, why is that a bad thing?

I am also of the opposite thinking in terms of "marginal" gains. Something that reduces the effort by 10 watts is more impactful on someone who averages only 100 watts versus someone who averages 200 watts.

With that said, I would argue that most all bike stuff today is way over rated. Aero this and that is mostly meaningless for people not doing 40 KPH. Your clothes and body position play a larger role than the bike. And bike weight is an even bigger scam.
vespasianus is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.