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DIY Systems

Old 07-21-20, 09:11 AM
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2old
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DIY Systems

Several individuals have written about the excellent success they have had with their DIY kits. This is in contrast to the disingenuous


real or imagined stories from individuals who own or work at bike shops and extol the virtues of OEM. The following two bikes are around six years old and have never had a problem. I ride the red one off road a couple of times a week and the green Diamondback is for errands. The friend that rides off road with me has worn out a Bosch system (he sold it cheap) and his Brose-equipped Bulls is in the shop now since it cuts out on hills.
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Old 07-21-20, 09:26 AM
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I'm all for aftermarket systems. The idea of sidelining an entire bike (which is also likely to be super heavy) just because the electronics crapped out really offends me - an absurd blow to the environment from something that should be reducing environmental damage. These heavy dedicated ebikes are going to end up in landfill eventually discarded when the replacement battery cost is prohibitive to the owner.
Makes a lot more sense to me to take a quality bike and electrify it with a system that can be easily removed/replaced. Your builds look nice, too.
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Old 07-21-20, 10:26 AM
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I was encouraged to see Justin LeMire-Elmore's video showing how you could gut a direct drive hub motor to run an external controller, seems a way to keep older ebikes going.

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Old 07-21-20, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by linberl
I'm all for aftermarket systems. The idea of sidelining an entire bike (which is also likely to be super heavy) just because the electronics crapped out really offends me - an absurd blow to the environment from something that should be reducing environmental damage. These heavy dedicated ebikes are going to end up in landfill eventually discarded when the replacement battery cost is prohibitive to the owner.
Makes a lot more sense to me to take a quality bike and electrify it with a system that can be easily removed/replaced. Your builds look nice, too.
Thank you. Really good points, and you might show a picture of your lightweight system. The Bafang mid-drive on the off road bike hasn't changed except for an upgraded controller, so my motor can be rebuilt if it ever has a problem. Bosch and others are in a constant race to "improve" their systems which change yearly. Who knows how long they'll be able to be repaired? The Diamondback has a direct drive motor, which (basically) has one moving part, the hub. Owners are reporting in excess of 25,000 miles with them. The kit was purchased for $200 as an experiment because it didn't seem possible (to me) to produce a viable electric hub motor so cheaply. Six years later guess I was incorrect.

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Old 07-21-20, 03:28 PM
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I use an after market system, 4.5lbs total,that can be moved to either of my bikes - or any new bike. There's a whole thread here on it: One motor/Shareroller drive. It's not one of those 50-100 milers, it's a super light friction drive that gives me a good 20 miles and that's all I need. Plenty of power, too.
I don't have the skills or the interest in learning how to build something from scratch, although I admire those who do. I have other interests that occupy my time with more priority. I hope we will see the emergence of shops that will rebuild/reuse e-bike components rather than have them be disposable like so many electronics these days. I've seen one or two battery rebuiders online but that's about it.
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Old 07-21-20, 04:10 PM
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In terms of performance and cost between a DIY to factory ebike there is really no comparison. Makes no sense why ebikes in the US market are so underpowered.

Wish people would stop ragging about ebike battery recycling. Electric cars are being legally mandated, seemingly every other car manufacturer says they are abandoning petrol motors. Bike batteries are nothing in comparison to what all the cars will produce. If an ebike is used for even one errand a week that used to involve a car than there is probably a net gain.

We can only hope that the infrastructure to recycle batteries is coming. But who knows because it is easier to make laws than to pay for them.
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Old 07-22-20, 09:24 AM
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I don't worry about the battery recycle so much - I'm more concerned about what will happen with those super heavy e-bikes when the owners decide the cost of replacing the battery is too high and they just dump them. They will have no use as regular bikes because of the difficulty pedaling 40-50-60lb beasts. If you spend $40k+ for an electric car, you're more likely to replace the battery when the car needs it. Maybe e-bikes from commercial builders should consider a lease model.
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Old 07-22-20, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Pop N Wood
In terms of performance and cost between a DIY to factory ebike there is really no comparison. Makes no sense why ebikes in the US market are so underpowered.
I disagree (but in a cheerful manner). There is a very good explanation for why eBikes in the US are so underpowered.

The US has not been the primary eBike market. Many bike shops are very opposed to eBikes, along with a strong sport-oriented cycling culture. The result is that eBikes are built for the largest markets. Those markets have much stricter power limits. The US gets these offerings from the major makers, thus, the offerings are significantly underpowered in comparison to what is allowed in the US.

So, the low power of the offerings on the US market makes sense. The only way for that to change is for the major makers to see that there is a strong US demand for US legal eBikes. Like you, I have found that making my own gives me better performance/$.
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Old 07-22-20, 10:02 AM
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I got good advice here when I did my first DIY ebike in 2015. Put a 500W hub motor on my aluminum Diamondback and was advised to use torque arms. Instead, I shifted the motor to my steel Trek, and it's been in place for five years now. No flat tires, thankfully. One of my favorite bikes to ride. Shown here with my "stealth" battery.



The following year, I put a bafang mid drive in the Diamondback. I've had some memories with it. On my first big test ride, 26 miles up/down the Chicago lakefront, my battery wiring failed after 300 feet, so I ended up pedaling all of that w/o power..Couldn't go home. On the other hand, when I took it to Colorado, we had some fantastic rides at 9000 feet. I couldn't hike a half mile uphill at that elevation w/o running out of breath, but it was easy to ride. Last week, I had a flat tire 4 miles from home. No tools. No tube. Had to do the Walk of Shame. It was awful.



And here's my electrified minvello. I went with front motor and two torque arms on this one. I marked the axle nuts with a sharpie pen. They haven't moved at all in 3 years. It's a Sundeal mini, only $159 on clearance from Bike Nashbar. Abut 36 pounds with motor/battery.
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Old 07-22-20, 11:21 AM
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That "mini" looks like a fun little scoot. I used to be a big fan of Nashbar before Performance went under. Wish I had seen that bike.
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Old 07-22-20, 04:05 PM
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I built this about 7 years ago. I have a couple of mountain bikes, but I love this one. Gets me to work swiftly.

Just put a new “cheap Chinese” battery in it. 10ah and about 3lbs. That was impossible 7 years ago. Its about 28lbs with a battery, so it rides a lot like a road bike. It was inspired by the original Specialized Turbo, but I had this done before Specialized came to market with their first e-bike. I do smile when people show me their $8,000 road bikes. (Donner bike is a 19lb Specialized)

I have build a couple of mountain bikes too, but there is something about well designed road bike. Road it 26 miles at a cruising speed of ~25mph on a 3lb battery. Had my snowblower battery as a range extender to give me another 20 minutes to get home. (Gotta love a big chain ring!)

As for quality – Quality vendors like EM3ev put together a quality kit. Most everyone else in Asia has crap – so I often end up changing out the connectors for good stuff. (Powerpole, XT90 sparkless)

Here is the “stealth” bike with the small 10ah battery (10s3p). So much nicer than that 10lb battery I had to use years ago (that frame bag is half empty).
During non Covid commuting days, I tend to use a brown Brooks saddle with a thudbuster matching the handlebar tape.

DIY Specialized Turbo
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Old 07-23-20, 09:37 AM
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Okay, well I didn't make this myself but props to the guy who did (Jeff Guida) and made it available for those of us who aren't able to build units. And yes, it's a friction drive, but if I was brave enough it easily goes 28mph and has never lost traction (thanks to self-adjusting software) and easily goes up SF hills. It's been my car for about a year and half now and I've not missed having a 4 wheeled vehicle.


Battery is in the revelate feed bag; 20-25 mile range at lowest pedal assist. Throttle and PAS are both wireless. Bike is barely 19 lbs and entire e-unit is 4.5lbs, so a sub-24lb e-bike which also folds easily for use on transit (pre-Covid).
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Old 07-23-20, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by linberl
Okay, well I didn't make this myself but props to the guy who did (Jeff Guida) and made it available for those of us who aren't able to build units. And yes, it's a friction drive, but if I was brave enough it easily goes 28mph and has never lost traction (thanks to self-adjusting software) and easily goes up SF hills. It's been my car for about a year and half now and I've not missed having a 4 wheeled vehicle.


Battery is in the revelate feed bag; 20-25 mile range at lowest pedal assist. Throttle and PAS are both wireless. Bike is barely 19 lbs and entire e-unit is 4.5lbs, so a sub-24lb e-bike which also folds easily for use on transit (pre-Covid).
Probably you've posted that picture before, but I don't remember it and great looking, very stealth bike. My street riding has receded since I moved to a "more urban" area about five years ago since it's never been my goal to become a hood ornament.

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Old 07-23-20, 09:57 AM
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C-58, have you had the same Q-100 motor the entire time? Also, is it cassette or freewheel?
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Old 07-23-20, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by 2old
Probably you've posted that picture before, but I don't remember it and great looking, very stealth bike. My street riding has receded since I moved to a "more urban" area about five years ago since it's never been my goal to become a good ornament.
You can't get more urban than where I live. A combination of decent, but not great, infrastructure of pathways and bike lanes, a good rear view mirror, a real effort to be utterly predictable, and a good spidey sense seems to work for me. That, and knowing getting there is more important than getting there fast...so when in doubt, I behave very conservatively and will even dismount at a crossing if it seems risky. Of course, being on 16" wheels lets me pop off and on super quickly with very little effort so that does help. So far, so good....
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Old 07-23-20, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by 2old
C-58, have you had the same Q-100 motor the entire time? Also, is it cassette or freewheel?
Yep, it is the 328rpm motor (designed for 20" wheel), so it likes to go fast. No load speed is 29mph I think. I doubt it has the power to do more than 20mph on its own, but with my legs providing 50% of the power, we are happy doing 25mph together. ;-)

Its a single speed/fixed gear bike. Originally I used it fixed gear to commute, but obviously switched to single speed when I added the motor. One happy benefit is that its the only high end frame I've seen with beefy dropouts. Geared road bikes have some wimpy drop outs, but a Track Bike vertical drop out is pretty beefy. I bought a '94 steel Specialized race bike to electrify it, but the dropouts are so scrawny that i was scared to electrify it. However, its such a sweet bike, I love riding it Au-Natural too much to put a motor on it.

First and only single speed and drop bar bike I've really ever seen in the DIY scene. I was a little nervous trying a single speed build, but looking at the engineering drawings it seemed doable - and worked out quite well.
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Old 07-23-20, 02:23 PM
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First and only single speed and drop bar bike I've really ever seen in the DIY scene. I was a little nervous trying a single speed build, but looking at the engineering drawings it seemed doable - and worked out quite well.[/QUOTE]

I rode SS off road for many years, so tried a SS with BBS02 to not the greatest success, but may venture in that direction again since I have lots of parts and the time to play with them. I should be able to get the bike in the 32 pound area with BBS02 and 52V, 4 ah battery and may do it for fun. Wish they would manufacture a 4 - 5 pound DIY mid-drive to drop another five pounds. Revel Production's system is close with an overall weight gain of 10 pounds. Maybe Paul will take the next step.
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Old 07-23-20, 02:45 PM
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yeah, single speed doesn't really take advantage of mid drive's advantages, but nothing specifically wrong with it.

Tongsheng TSDZ2 Mid Drive is the lightest mid drive out there that has proven itself with a good following. And it is torque sensing!

But of course linberl's bike is ultra light.

I did a 26 mile cross country MTB race on the pro tour (I wasn't in pro class, lol). Feeling good as my times were great and about 20 minutes faster than my friends. Sat down to talk to an attractive friendly blond woman after the race. Just chatting with her, I found out she had done the race single speed and beat my times. Dang! I was dumfounded.
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Old 07-23-20, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by chas58
yeah, single speed doesn't really take advantage of mid drive's advantages, but nothing specifically wrong with it.

Tongsheng TSDZ2 Mid Drive is the lightest mid drive out there that has proven itself with a good following. And it is torque sensing!

But of course linberl's bike is ultra light.

I did a 26 mile cross country MTB race on the pro tour (I wasn't in pro class, lol). Feeling good as my times were great and about 20 minutes faster than my friends. Sat down to talk to an attractive friendly blond woman after the race. Just chatting with her, I found out she had done the race single speed and beat my times. Dang! I was dumfounded.
Don't feel dumbfounded. Some courses/rides lend themselves to SS and it isn't much of a hindrance to ride one (probably as you know from your "e" road bike). When I was younger I rode SS off road with a bunch of still much younger than me guys without any trouble.
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Old 07-23-20, 05:45 PM
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I use my Onemotor on my Dahon Mu Uno - it's a single speed. The only issue is that I spin out so can't go all that fast using pedal assist. I think the gear inches are around 60. But it works pretty well, it pulls my trailer with all my stuff just fine.
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Old 07-24-20, 07:44 AM
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Good to see others adding to the thread. Might be important for people seeking alternate transportation to realize how inexpensive it is to construct an e-bike and not be saddled with a proprietary system. The Diamondback above was about $600 (already had the bike, which was worth about $200 at the time, so that could be a factor) to modify, and it's still possible to DIY for about the same cost since motor kits hover around $175-$225 and 48V batteries from reputable (IMO) companies for $350.
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Old 07-26-20, 10:57 PM
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i put this together recently for a bit under 2k. can do about 40 mph on a flat, although i usually keep it to about 30.

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Old 07-28-20, 03:22 AM
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Originally Posted by linberl
I'm all for aftermarket systems. The idea of sidelining an entire bike (which is also likely to be super heavy) just because the electronics crapped out really offends me - an absurd blow to the environment from something that should be reducing environmental damage. These heavy dedicated ebikes are going to end up in landfill eventually discarded when the replacement battery cost is prohibitive to the owner.
Makes a lot more sense to me to take a quality bike and electrify it with a system that can be easily removed/replaced. Your builds look nice, too.
Fully agree,

Use a good quality lightweight starting point, don't get greedy and put in a lot of power. The human can do 200w +/- so adding more than 500 should not be needed.
Solving heavy monster bikes with electrical power is self defeating.
Of course the hardcore enthusiasts will need something tougher for offroad or similar applications but keeping some focus on the bike will create years of enjoyment and adaptability.
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Old 07-28-20, 05:04 AM
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Adding more than 500 Watts may not be needed but it sure is fun to have.

In reality even 1500 Watts isn't a huge amount of power. I was a touch underwhelmed with my bike when I first rode it, think youtube videos raised my expectations a bit too much.

There are some significant advantages to having more power. Nice being able to accelerate with traffic coming off a light. Also feel there is an advantage having an overbuilt motor not running at max output all of the time. Throw in a cargo bike, trailer, up hill, head winds, mud or snow and the bigger motor quickly becomes needed. Maybe not power so much as torque.

With that said sustaining more than 500 watts really drains the battery significantly cutting range. I do seem to spend the majority of my riding time well under 500 watts, maybe even 250 watts.

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Old 07-28-20, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by TonyVov
Fully agree,

Use a good quality lightweight starting point, don't get greedy and put in a lot of power. The human can do 200w +/- so adding more than 500 should not be needed.
Solving heavy monster bikes with electrical power is self defeating.
Of course the hardcore enthusiasts will need something tougher for offroad or similar applications but keeping some focus on the bike will create years of enjoyment and adaptability.
That is pretty much what I did above, but that is a rarity for a build. Light and fast isn't very popular. I supply about 1/2 the power, the motor (which is very small) the other half. It does 25mph for 25 miles at 25lbs. :-) That doesn't include the weight of the 3.75lb battery though.
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