Chombi1 

I never could figure out how some people might apply a lot if twisting force on a frame clamped to a stand, without possibly damaging the frame from clamping down hard enough to resist a lot of force. I still remeber installing a headset race that was a bit tight on the head tube and I was all twisted up against the work stand, trying to brace myself against the frame tubes, while I twisted the headset press screw down. I had the frame clamped down as yard as I dare, but it still kept slipping in the stand clamp.

cudak888 

I think you'll find that a suitably greased, very long steel seatpost of the correct size (one with a rolled over edge at the bottom) will do the trick without any rolling on the outside.

In other words, done right, it may be able to bring this seattube back into round without ever damaging the original factory finish.

I'd try this method before anything else. I've done it twice before on 531 frames with nastier dents than this. It worked both times. One was my '61 Paramount, which had a huge dent in the seattube similar to the dents seen here. I rammed a 27.2 post into the seattube and the dent disappeared.

-Krut

merziac

Agreed but this was 90 posts in under 24hrs, we're the ones that made out as if there was chum in the water.

CV-6 

Something like this worked very well for me removing a dent from one of my projects. The socket served as a slide hammer to remove the implement.

20190817_225656 by L Travers, on Flickr

bargainguy

All people make mistakes, all businesses make mistakes.

What differentiates a business is how it responds to its own mistakes. That tells you how much they want, or don't want, your business in the future.

Many moons ago before I started removing my own stuck seatposts, I took an old Trek MTB with a stuck post to the local LBS where I'm very friendly with the owner & staff.

Get a call a couple days later. Owner himself had botched the removal and wound up ovalizing the seat tube.

That bike was a loss except for parts. But what really stood out was that the owner fessed up, admitted what was obvious, and took full responsibility.

He got a lot more business out of me because of it. I didn't ask for anything in compensation that day, because I knew he'd be available to help me when I needed it, and he was.

I only wish that your LBS was as up front as mine was.

tpadul 

so to the OP did you resolve this problem? I noticed that the photos you posted of this bike in the "Show us your Vintage Raleigh" thread on September 18, 2020 do not show any damage at all to the frame. Have you showed those photos to the LBS? What is the outcome of this ?

repechage

I have removed less deep indentations, a near diameter solid rod, just a bit smaller than the seatpost. ground a tapered end and polished it.
For this job I would go maybe 1/2" smaller diameter at the tip and 1" long or more.
Grease and twist.
Might pop out.

The mechanics don't get paid enough to admit their error. See it all the time in different businesses.
My wife took her minivan in for a detail... bright, polished and dented. I went by and drove right near the area where it obviously happened, the white paint from the metal wall mounted cabinet matched right up, and the cabinet had a matching dent. Big deny.

Snowflake6

I really want to hear how this turns out, but it sounds like it's not going to go the OP's way. The shop is adamant they didn't cause it. The OP is adamant it was fine when he dropped it off.

Despite clear circumstantial evidence that a clamp caused this, the shop can still claim that it was done before they got it.

The choice is to lawyer up, small claims court up, or walk away from that shop. Or: Is there a "consumer advocate" segment on your local news channel? Give them a call and ask if they're interested in a bike shop that damages bikes and walks away from their responsibility to their customers. I bet if someone showed up with a news camera and a reporter, they would change their tune pretty quickly.

ridesoldtrek

Respectfully ask the owner to demonstrate that the damage could not have happened in one of their repair stands. This is easy to do. If the clamp arms can not be made to line up with the dents they will have made their case. But of course the owner could claim it was done by another shop with the same stand.

It is really impossible to do this kind of damage yourself with out a tool of some sort. The bike falling over, something hitting it, etc: the damage would not look like this. I have had steel frames dented by accident, this is not the result of damage by use.

The suggestion of a vacuum: not possible from an engineering perspective.

For the owner to defer to the mechanics is NOT OK. The owner is the owner, the mechanics are employees, the owner needs to ultimately take responsibility for what happens in the shop. The owner shouldn't browbeat the mechanics in front of you, but to shrug and say 'well, the mechanics say otherwise' is avoiding the problem.

sheddle

I'd like to thank everyone for the help- after speaking with the shop again, I consider the issue resolved, and the shop has agreed to cover the repair costs.

polymorphself 

Thats all you’re giving us!?

scarlson 

Great news!
So happy to hear it.

sheddle

I mentioned it earlier, but they're a shop I've dealt with multiple times over several years, and until now, every experience has been positive.

I could try to litigate when and why this happened further, but I'd much rather this consider an unfortunate mistake that was resolved and is best forgotten.

jadocs

So they admitted they caused the damage and will cover the repair costs. I guess what everyone is wondering is did they just see the light after you contacted them again, or did they still deny it but will cover the cost of repair because they value you as a customer?

3Roch

https://www.bikeforums.net/framebuil...-strength.html

Check the above thread for my post on my seat tube dent removal tool....it worked well

3Roch

sheddle

The former, basically. I mentioned that a local framebuilder had investigated the frame as well and identified the issue as almost certainly clamping damage to the lead mechanic at the shop, and it went smoothly after that.

Bill in VA

There is a tool called a hydraulic dent remover that is used to remove the dents in tubing. There is a variation that is used to remove dents in classic side-by-side shotgun barrels that are dented in falls. They work slowly and can raise dents in hardened steel as well as in old layered damascus steel and be compatible with the interior tapering of the tube for the choke. These classic shotguns barrels were silver-soldered together with a rib and the tool is designed to work very slowly and to not deform the tube and possibly compromise the silver solder, as well as not damage the tapering of the choke. The tool can be had with different diameters. This would not be something most gunsmiths of modern arms would have. There may be something similar that a framebuilder would know about.

A long shot, but another possibility.

RobbieTunes

Super.
+1
You never know, they may call you when that 531 Motobecane shows up as a possible trade-in....

I love a happy ending.

jadocs

Great!

ShannonM

Glad to hear that they are going to make it right. That's how these things should go, from both sides of the shop counter. You weren't a jerk, they weren't jerks, you came back with evidence that showed what happened, they agreed, and everybody moves on.

(The shop needing evidence that they damaged the bike isn't jerkish... we've all got 30-foot-long scrolls of "I was just riding along..." and "It didn't look like that when I brought it in..." stories, and are therefore a suspicious lot. Plus, everybody's gotten defensive when we think we might have screwed up. It's what happens afterward that matters.)

I'd be way interested to hear (and see pictures of) the repair story. It sounds like it might be fixable without damage to the paint, which would be rad.

--Shannon

polymorphself 

Hoping for this story as well.

Charles Wahl

What's disturbing in this story is that there's an employee of the shop who a) screwed up, and b) was not forthcoming about the screw-up, either before the customer came to pick up, or after it was discovered to be a problem, plus c) the shop manager or owner did not instantly recognize this as bike stand clamp damage or d) did, but decided to be disingenuous; causing e) customer a lot of bother and trouble. As always, caveat emptor.

Phil_gretz

Small claims court. As evidence, bring in your photograph and the frame itself. Bring an exact replica of the clamp head used in their shop. Bring three expert estimates on the value. Sue for fair market value to replace the entire bicycle. You will win.

Worst case, even if Solomon himself were to be the judge, you'd receive 50%, which will cover a replacement frame. These can still be found in the $150 range if you are patient.

conspiratemus1

One should be moderate and gracious in victory. No need to slaughter everyone after they lay down their arms. The OP is being a gentleman, and so is the shop owner.

conspiratemus1

No you couldn’t. Litigation is to restore you to how you were before the tort, to the extent that money can do so. It is not to “get to the bottom of” something “to find out what really happened”, especially when the parties have already settled their differences. That is for government enquiries with lots of tax dollars to burn. You would be thrown out of Court. You’re doing the right thing now. And it’s nobody’s business here who’s arm got twisted.

The details of the repair will be interesting.