burritos

That was f'ing hilarious and made my day.

aplcr0331

Here’s an exercise. Time to think like a noob. Most of you are unable to do this. Put yourself in the shoes of Joe and Jane Schmuckateli from Anytown, USA.

Let's assume we get a pantload of new bike lanes. Wide with plenty of room to ride 2 abreast and clearly defined lines with signs every 1/8 of a mile saying "Share the Road" and another sign every 1/16th of a mile that says "3 Feet!"

So they see these bike lanes and think, maybe I'll ride a bike to work! What do I need to do?

1. Buy a bike.
2. Buy a helmet.
3. Buy a lock
4. Buy some more clothes (rain gear, cold weather gear, etc.)
5. Buy a backpack and panniers to carry all my **** (lunches, laptops, etc.)
6. Plan my route.
7. Figure out where to chain up my bike.
8. Am I showering at work, where to store work clothes?
9. Oops, it’s getting dark; Buy a light
10. And on and on and on….


Let's just start with buying a bike. Where do you go? Bike shop. Lowest priced bike is often times $500 at least. Dejected you go to Walmart or Target. $100, that’s better. Plus they have a bunch of the other stuff you need so you buy your gear.

Then you get on the bike to ride. It’s probably been 20 years since you rode a bike. And you’re on a Walmart special. Brakes are probably backwards, tires not pumped up, the fit is horrific. What then? You think this person is going to do a bunch of research to figure out how to adjust everything, learn how to wrench, etc.?

Try not to be condescending. What are they supposed to do?

There a ton of barriers to entry to be a cyclist, let alone a bike commuter. Maybe they google “bike commuting tips” and end up on a forum with a dedicated area for all things bike commuting. What do they read? The joy of biking to work? The benefits of green exercise? The cost savings? The community of like-minded people? NOPE. What they get instead are thread after thread of morally indignant complainers whining about….well them. They see how scared to death bike commuters are. They see how pissed off a cyclist gets when someone is parked in the bike lane. They get thread after thread of *****ing.

Do really think Joe or Jane will wake up on Monday with its low fog and light drizzle that they’re going to hop out of bed like they’re 9 again on Christmas morning? To bike in that?

Right…right, I get that the normies in their cars are devil spawn and the root of all evil. They’re fat losers who don’t GET IT. But unfortunately in order to get what YOU want (100% coverage for bike lanes and bike infrastructure and the world to cater to your needs) you need Joe and Jane. And face it, if it’s one thing I’ve learned over the last few years it’s that we loathe anyone who does not think exactly as we do.

There’s roads…ride them. There’s gravel…ride that (all the cool kids are doing it). Will we get some, sure a little here and there (and damn lucky to get that…and thankful too) but the road to wherever we want to go in this moment will not be paved just for us.

“Everyone must row with the oars he has”.

Thomas15

Here in Eastern Pennsylvania we have a bunch of MUPS, Rail Trails. Most of them go from no-where to no-where. There is this program called "The Link" which is in theory going to oversee and help plan the connecting of many of these trails. Of the dozen or so only two are actually connected in even a rough form. Most of them will never get connected. Then there is the East Coast Greenway. Probably will see some connections here within the next decade. New Jersey has I think about 10 miles of the proposed 60 miles either in planning the rest is no-where.


Then there is the D&L Delaware and Lehigh National Heritage Corridor. This is supposed to be a 165 mile MUP starting in Bristol (outside of Philly) and ending in Wilkes Barre. The actual D&L LLC non-profit organization doesn't own anything or do any upkeep, rather they kind of help local governments apply for grants and make plans. They also take credit for everything that is good, blames the entire free world for the many times they step on a rake. The D&L has 15 full time professional staff. There is no reason, similar to the American Cancer Society, for the D&L to actually see a closing of the various gaps in the trail. Like finding a cure for cancer which would put the cancer society out of business, completing the gaps would put the D&L LLC out of business.


The new bridge and connectors over the 200 foot wide Lehigh River in Jim Thorpe PA, when it is all finished probably sometime in the summer, will have a price tag of almost 6 million dollars. This is for a bridge span and a mile of trail. But that is small compared to the gap in Allentown, 7 miles which will probably cost about 45 million dollars and still be partly share the road. Then there is the connector into Wilkes Barre, there will need to be an overpass built to cross over a main-line rail road track. Remember all of the construction has to meet Americans is Disabilities Acts. My guess is we are looking at 75-80 million dollars to connect the entire D&L trail.


What the D&L LLC has historically tried to do is tie the trail into increased visitors using the thing and leaving with empty pockets. Now they are moving in the direction of trying to make the pitch that finishing the 7 mile Allentown (Lehigh Valley) gap will form a commuter trail. Not going to happen because the winter weather in this area does not make a trail that starts no-where and ends no-where something that will be widely used to get to work or shop.


I like the trail and use it but overall it is a huge drain of money. Having it is nice but the cost is silly high. And it will not be connected, even the Lehigh Valley gap at its most rudimentary level, within the next 20 years. So what elected official has the courage to thump his/her chest for something that will not be useable until the year 2040 when the roads are crumbling? Keep in mind that motorists pay fuel taxes which help pay for road upkeep. PA has been taking some of that money and throwing it at MUP projects.

mstateglfr 

Maybe Ill drive to work. What do I need to do?

1- sign up for driver's ed classes and pay for lessons that take months.
2- wait for hours to take a written test and driving test.
3- buy a car
3a- what type of car?
3b- what age of car?
3c- how much to spend?
4- shop around and pay for car insurance.
5- find a route(if its worth mentioning for cycling, its worth mentioning for driving. it isnt difficult either way).
6- figure out where to park- is there a lot, is it free, is there on street pay parking, or parking garage?
7- continually maintain car with gas, oil changes, tire inflation, tire rotation, and tune ups.

I seriously condensed the process to go from 0 to drive to work in a car. Between the two, I would never say figuring out how to ride a bike to work is the more complex option.
The difference is that everyone in the US(western world mostly?) is used to the car process and it is slowly applied from the time you turn 15 so it isnt all at once.

BlindGuyRides

False equivilancy:

Often times schools will give drivers ed courses. First car is gonna be a bit of a hassle but cross the licensing off straight away.

Roads are already covered and i nfact many cities and communities are geared on the assumption you have a car so once yo uget said vehicle you are entering into a system of transport and lanes that everywhere is pretty well universall ygoing to accept. you roll into work not having been groddy or needing cleanup. The car itself has storage for any extras you have to have, and the job will give you money for the other issues.

Unlike cycling where you are at best a secondary consideration (oftne third or not at all,) and you have to deal with being the newbie who came int oa given community expecting help only to get yelled at that 'oh you did stupid thing. I am going to mock you for doing stupid thing.'

This isn't a reflection on me and this community. This is my experiance lurking at a lot of places aimed at biking. You guys come off as pretty elitist and territorial. Sure there are REASONS for some of it, but try divorcing yourself from the community and look at it as an outsider.
Sure good communities exist, but they are overwhelmingly drownd out by condescending voices lecturing down at potential newbies, who then leave in a huff and write the whole thing off as 'some dudebro thing'

Admittedly you DO raise a point everything has costs and a series of steps, but cycling has opprotunity as well as financial costs in learning what's good vs bad (and why you should avoid walmart bikes if you want to do anything other than gentle roads for a few miles at a go.) Why there is that jump between walmart bikes and quote un freaking quote 'real' bikes,.

For a lot of normies they are stepping into alien culture territory where they're bombarded pretty fast with the notion they are not wanted.

And then the bikers wonder why normies give them zero consideration. Why should they?

Maelochs

Ummmm .... maybe calling cyclists "abnormal" is not the best way to bridge the divide?

BlindGuyRides

Fair enough, but the poitn still stands. From the perspective of someone who knows nothing and went ot walmart because 'eh ****it this costs less, ther'es lots of youtube videos saying how these thigns can be upgraded why not?' And... then find out the rabbit hole is actually a badger burrow.

I got gifted my bike. The folk gifting had no malice. They took what information I gave them and made the best call they could with avalible funds, time, and access to places that sold bikes. I had mentioned that bike store bikes give better quality, but as there are no bike shops in convenient distance they went with walmart.

I expect a lot of people fall broadly into that catagory. 'OK I can't afford the premium specialty store stuff and like hell can I get to one of these mythic bike shops even if I had the money because nearest is too far out. Guess I'll go to walmart.'

And find out many of the bikes have components that were standard twenty or thirty years ago.

I'm hoping for a local bike group to start back up when das virus gets down to a managable level as local group, even if they're all riding walmart ikes, can give that moral boost to plough through 'oh god we're all chasing either an absolute dead end or at best something with VERY limited upgradeability Now What?'

And getting those riders to keep riding is the important step. People who ride are more likely to want ot keep riding, right? If nothing else it's chasing the sunk cost and wanting to come away with something to show other than a lighter wallet.

So I dunno if that's the 'best' way to do things but it's sounding like half a plan at least.

Anyone else had any success getting covid riders interested in group rides? Is that even safe given covid is still pretty rampant?

sloppy12

Locally we had a group that did like fun night rides it was a cruiser bike thing. any walmart bike would probably be fine for that type of activity and those are generally gonna be the more chill bike riders in any given area. When I say locally pretty much all the close towns had a "club", group, or bike shop that would do it.

honestly for all the walmart hate I see plenty of the cruisers go up and down the MUP with happy people on them.

mstateglfr 

It isnt an equivalency because I am not claiming them to be equal. The process to drive can actually be viewed as even more steps and challenging compared to driving a car, the car process is just broken down into steps over many years so it doesnt seem as bad compared to something that you have to plan for seemingly all at once.
The process to drive a car to work is both more complicated AND more expensive. That was my point, since listed barriers to entry for cycling included the complicated process and cost.

Now I am very much aware that cycling to work/for transportation is very difficult for most, due to the logistics of it- it takes longer, how is bad weather dealt with, process of dropping kids off, routes that make the cyclist feel safe, etc are all issues that very much have to be accounted for. And because of our road system, some of the above issues seem impossible to overcome for certain personal situations. When my kids were younger, I couldnt have realistically dropped them off at my parent's house for daycare then ridden to work as it creates too many challenges that I am not interested in working hard to solve. Instead- toss em in the car and I am at work 30min later.

Maelochs

I agree with @sloppy12; any major increase in cycling infrastructure will be due to the increasing popularity if e-bikes (and e-scooters.) The road-going pedal-powered brigade isn't going to get a lot larger until there are more safe routes, and the existing number is insufficient to warrant building more safe routes.

tkamd73 

Same as the previous bike boom, No! During the last boom, cycling was suddenly something everyone wanted to do, with this boom it’s something you can do, because a lot of your other options have been taken away.
Post covid, a lot of the new bikes, along with any political clout to change the infrastructure, will be collecting cobwebs in the basement or garage. Might be some good deals for the rest of us though, gotta find that silver lining in everything.
Tim

50PlusCycling

You might scoff at roads in America, but they are better than the roads the other 90% of the world has. Here in Japan roads are much narrower and more congested, yet they are safer for cyclists. This is because of driver education, and that the consequences of hitting a cyclist or pedestrian are very high. As safe as the roads are here, I do miss American roads, which are wider, smoother, built with gentler inclines, and where traffic intersections are better engineered.

Troul 

this isn't a poll, so it must be phishing.

JayKay3000

Stealing bikes is currently far too easy to do and to get away with.