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Harassment of cyclists in New Jersey

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Harassment of cyclists in New Jersey

Old 04-22-21, 10:52 AM
  #26  
DangerousDanR
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The people being detained are probably all juveniles, so while the officer may have used the term arrest when speaking with them they were probably being detained by Law Enforcement acting in the place of parents (in loco parentis). You and I may not like it, but the LEOs are acting within the law.

Also, New Jersey law is clear that juveniles under the age of 17 (I am guessing that many of these kids were) must wear a CPSC or Snell approved protective headgear while riding a bicycle. Not all of the kids were wearing a helmet.

So it is pretty clear that the LEOs had cause to stop these kids and determine if they were indeed under age 17. Additionally, they were riding in a clearly unsafe manner. Once again, the doctrine of in loco parentis allows LEOs to detain these kids for actions which they could not detain adults.

Beyond that, what I saw was a pretty clear example of what LEO and writer Joseph Wambaugh called "contempt of cop", along with behavior that rises to what I like to call "misdemeanor dumb ass."

For the most part, it looked to me like the LEOs did not rise and take the bait. So good for them. Also, the kids did stop for the LEOs, so good for them.

As far as the racial aspect, of course there are racist people. Always have been, always will be. The current political climate allows the POTUS to speak privately on a friendly basis with a known anti-Semitic bigot but howls like crazy if someone doesn't join in the Two Minute Hate against Caucasian men. So as soon as someone puts that out, I want to see evidence.

I have spent time with a fair number of LEOs. Some were colleagues when I was involved in fire fighting. Some were personal friends. I never heard any of them voice racial prejudice. And some were Bat <deleted> crazy, like the explosives disposal team guys I knew. Others had risen high on the food chain and were polished to a shine. And if you look a almost any Law Enforcement Agency today you will find a very high percentage of LEOs are Hispanic.

I was involved in a couple of incidents where a Hispanic was assaulted by a Caucasian male. In both of those cases the LEOs involved did their utmost to apprehend the suspect. That is their job, and for the most part they do it well. They are also generally people who want to see things being kept orderly. And these kids were not being orderly.

Further more, let's say that the LEOs do nothing after being informed that there are juveniles riding bicycles in an unsafe manner, and then let's say that one or more of the juveniles is killed in a collision with a motor vehicle. Have they exposed the city to liability for their inaction? What if the kids behavior results in injury to a third party. Are they going to have to answer for their inaction. They just don't want to deal with all that crap.

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Old 04-22-21, 10:59 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
Probably, wouldn't have happened if the kids weren't riding like *******s. That's an important part of the story. One you are conveniently ignoring.
I haven't ignored it- kids riding like jerks is not the mitigating factor for the police behavior that you think it is. It makes it worse.
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Old 04-22-21, 11:21 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
I haven't ignored it- kids riding like jerks is not the mitigating factor for the police behavior that you think it is. It makes it worse.
??? What?

It's a one sided story.

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Old 04-22-21, 11:44 AM
  #29  
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As someone who lives 14 miles from Perth Amboy, I'll go ahead and stick my hat in the ring.
1. I think the cops are doing the kids a favor by using "bike license" as an official reason here. Plenty of charges in LEO are moved to "seat belt violation" or another minor code point INSTEAD of creating a record that would really disrupt a kid's future job prospects - like "civil disobedience." To think this is really about a bike license is rather naive. It ain't about the bike license.
2. Here in the NYC area there really is a "thing" going on where these kids are going into what I'll call "rodeo mode" where a pack just becomes circus-like in the middle of the road. Here on BF, there've been quite a few postings on this, including when the older folks from CT were threatened in the car in Midtown NY, refer to this thread: https://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-...doing-car.html
3. Time to get schools fully re-opened. These kids are dangerously bored.
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Old 04-22-21, 02:05 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by ridelikeaturtle View Post
... and if you ever use the term "snowflake", you are probably a racist.
Again, you have no rebuttal.
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Old 04-22-21, 02:44 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by downhillmaster View Post
Again, you have no rebuttal.
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Old 04-22-21, 02:56 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
What I saw was officers haranguing them about bike licenses which, ordinance or no, they had no legitimate authority to. I wouldn't have gotten mouthy, but only because I'm older and wiser and know how that turns out. These are kids, being wronged by authority - backtalk should be expected.

If they're too unruly, just warn them off. The cops got that wrong also, because most of what they were doing was no big deal. Just the idea, the nerve of those kids, taking up the street was the gist of it. But that wasn't what the cops acted on; they acted on the license issue. You're implying that it was a pretext for the cop's disruption and heavy handed result, a pretext because they didn't or couldn't cite "riding like jerks". I'd tend to agree that it did look like they used the (probably illegal) ordinance as a pretext for punishing the kids.
If the kids behavior had been legal, I would also be POed at the LEOs. Watch the video again. Those kids could have been charged with "disorderly conduct", and it would probably stick.

New Jersey Code of Criminal Justice: 2C:33-2. Disorderly conduct
a. Improper behavior. A person is guilty of a petty disorderly persons offense, if with purpose to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof he

(1) Engages in fighting or threatening, or in violent or tumultuous behavior; or

(2) Creates a hazardous or physically dangerous condition by any act which serves no legitimate purpose of the actor.

Subsection 2 would clearly describe the behavior of those kids. Instead one was detained and it appears that they were released without charges and the LEOs took a few bikes and told their owners to walk down to the station where they could pick them up.
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Old 04-22-21, 03:13 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by ridelikeaturtle View Post
... and if you ever use the term "snowflake", you are probably a racist.
I once met a Glaswegian Catholic who was an ardent Rangers fan because of the lack of humor and vindictive nature of the political left in Glasgow. Had a great time singing together in a pub in a predominantly Catholic town in the Western Islands...

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Old 04-22-21, 03:42 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
??? What?

It's a one sided story.
Because if acting like a jerk is enough to take your bike, and take you into custody (which IS an arrest btw, whether or not you're charged), I doubt that either you or any of the rest of us would be walking around free. You should be arrested for your behavior on BF by that standard.

If that really was their pretext, then it's despicable IMO and verging on abuse of authority. We cannot allow local authorities to simply apply their ire as having the force of law, no matter how annoying they were. If something they did was citable, then they should cite them. But the fact is, hardly anything in that video was and those cops knew it.
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Old 04-22-21, 05:04 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
Because if acting like a jerk is enough to take your bike, and take you into custody (which IS an arrest btw, whether or not you're charged), I doubt that either you or any of the rest of us would be walking around free. You should be arrested for your behavior on BF by that standard.

If that really was their pretext, then it's despicable IMO and verging on abuse of authority. We cannot allow local authorities to simply apply their ire as having the force of law, no matter how annoying they were. If something they did was citable, then they should cite them. But the fact is, hardly anything in that video was and those cops knew it.
This is ridiculous.

The videos show they were doing things like popping wheelies on roads with cars.

That's really not just being "a jerk".

It's unsafe and reckless.
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Old 04-22-21, 05:22 PM
  #36  
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Having laws that are enforced only at the convenience of the police when it serves their ends seems like a very poor practice. Hard for anyone to have much respect for a system that treats the law in so capricious a fashion.
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Old 04-22-21, 06:30 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
This is ridiculous.

The videos show they were doing things like popping wheelies on roads with cars.

That's really not just being "a jerk".

It's unsafe and reckless.
As I have stated multiple times, the video clearly shows the cyclists surrounding moving vehicles to intentionally impede their progress.
The couple of snowflakes trying to defend the cyclists are so far lost they have yet to even acknowledge this because they know it is indefensible.
Rational discussion is lost on them lol
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Old 04-22-21, 06:35 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
Because if acting like a jerk is enough to take your bike, and take you into custody (which IS an arrest btw, whether or not you're charged), I doubt that either you or any of the rest of us would be walking around free. You should be arrested for your behavior on BF by that standard.

If that really was their pretext, then it's despicable IMO and verging on abuse of authority. We cannot allow local authorities to simply apply their ire as having the force of law, no matter how annoying they were. If something they did was citable, then they should cite them. But the fact is, hardly anything in that video was and those cops knew it.
It is quite telling that the only way you have described the cyclists behavior so far is that they were ‘acting like jerks’
So that you can then try to frame the police in a bad light because who should ever get in trouble or arrested for just acting like a jerk right?
Your logic(or lack thereof)is refreshing in its child-like naïveté
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Old 04-22-21, 07:17 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by downhillmaster View Post
So many ignorant comments.
Originally Posted by downhillmaster View Post
You should maybe watch an entire video before you post it
Originally Posted by downhillmaster View Post
More ignorance from someone who obviously didn’t watch the video that this post is based upon.
Originally Posted by downhillmaster View Post
More proof that you didn’t even watch the whole video.
Originally Posted by downhillmaster View Post
The couple of snowflakes trying to defend the cyclists are so far lost they have yet to even acknowledge this because they know it is indefensible.
Rational discussion is lost on them lol
The only interesting part of this thread is that you interpret any and all disagreement (with you) as only arising from ignorance and/or irrationality. As if all informed and intelligent people would of course see things exactly as you do, and reach the same conclusions.

Of course, the two groups in the video - the kids and the cops - each feel the same way. That's why they are having a conflict.
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Old 04-22-21, 07:24 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
The only interesting part of this thread is that you interpret any and all disagreement (with you) as only arising from ignorance and/or irrationality. As if all informed and intelligent people would of course see things exactly as you do, and reach the same conclusions.

Of course, the two groups in the video - the kids and the cops - each feel the same way. That's why they are having a conflict.
How exactly do the kids that were intentionally disrupting traffic by surrounding moving vehicles feel?
When you interviewed them to discuss their feelings did you record it so we can all see it and empathize with them?
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Old 04-23-21, 05:23 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
This is ridiculous.

The videos show they were doing things like popping wheelies on roads with cars.

That's really not just being "a jerk".

It's unsafe and reckless.
Popping wheelies? GET OFF MY LAWN. Danged kids should be ARRESTED for popping wheelies.
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Old 04-23-21, 06:19 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
Popping wheelies? GET OFF MY LAWN. Danged kids should be ARRESTED for popping wheelies.
Again ignoring the fact that they were intentionally surrounding moving vehicles to impede their progress.
You are so special
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Old 04-23-21, 06:41 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by downhillmaster View Post
Again ignoring the fact that they were intentionally surrounding moving vehicles to impede their progress.
You are so special
Oh dear, can't have any interruption of motorists tapping their little feet on brakes and throttles!

Do you think the driver of a car stopped in front of you in a queue should be arrested? They're impeding your progress too! In fact, they're taking up the WHOLE ROAD! If you're going to be ridiculous, at least be consistent.

What are you even doing on a cycling forum? Do you secretly work for the motor industry, or are you just this brainwashed into evangelizing submission to car dominance? People own cars, they do not own the street. The entitlement coming off you is breathtaking.

You are the poster-child for the phrase "clutching at pearls".
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Old 04-23-21, 09:05 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
Popping wheelies? GET OFF MY LAWN. Danged kids should be ARRESTED for popping wheelies.
They aren't "on your lawn".

They weren't arrested for "just" popping wheelies. You keep missing important parts.

Is in the middle of a public road with traffic really the place for that?

Last edited by njkayaker; 04-24-21 at 09:25 AM.
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Old 04-23-21, 09:10 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
...
Is in the middle of a public road with traffic really the place for that?
Yep, 100%. #BanCars
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Old 04-23-21, 09:41 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by ridelikeaturtle View Post
Oh dear, can't have any interruption of motorists tapping their little feet on brakes and throttles!

Do you think the driver of a car stopped in front of you in a queue should be arrested? They're impeding your progress too! In fact, they're taking up the WHOLE ROAD! If you're going to be ridiculous, at least be consistent.

What are you even doing on a cycling forum? Do you secretly work for the motor industry, or are you just this brainwashed into evangelizing submission to car dominance? People own cars, they do not own the street. The entitlement coming off you is breathtaking.

You are the poster-child for the phrase "clutching at pearls".
You quite obviously have a bizarre hatred for vehicles and vehicle owners.
At least it doesn’t permeate and taint everything you post regarding the subject lol
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Old 04-23-21, 10:00 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by ridelikeaturtle View Post
Oh dear, can't have any interruption of motorists tapping their little feet on brakes and throttles!

Do you think the driver of a car stopped in front of you in a queue should be arrested? They're impeding your progress too! In fact, they're taking up the WHOLE ROAD! If you're going to be ridiculous, at least be consistent.

What are you even doing on a cycling forum? Do you secretly work for the motor industry, or are you just this brainwashed into evangelizing submission to car dominance? People own cars, they do not own the street. The entitlement coming off you is breathtaking.

You are the poster-child for the phrase "clutching at pearls".
This is the most "off in the weeds" comment I've seen here in a while.

You are making no sense.
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Old 04-23-21, 10:12 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by ridelikeaturtle View Post
Oh dear, can't have any interruption of motorists tapping their little feet on brakes and throttles!

Do you think the driver of a car stopped in front of you in a queue should be arrested? They're impeding your progress too! In fact, they're taking up the WHOLE ROAD! If you're going to be ridiculous, at least be consistent.

What are you even doing on a cycling forum? Do you secretly work for the motor industry, or are you just this brainwashed into evangelizing submission to car dominance? People own cars, they do not own the street. The entitlement coming off you is breathtaking.

You are the poster-child for the phrase "clutching at pearls".
Just so we are clear, my time stamps refer to the video shown in this article:
https://www.nj.com/middlesex/2021/04...is-raging.html

0:00 - Group riding in opposite lane.
1:57 - Near miss of fellow kid on bike
3:21 - Disregard for oncoming cyclists on MUT.
5:16 - Littering! (
)
5:24 - Intentionally riding into oncoming traffic.
6:11 - Riding through landscaping.
6:40 - Harassing a car.
7:26 - Riding against traffic - near miss

I have not so secretly worked as an engineer for two motor vehicle manufacturers, but my CV has nothing to do with this. I commuted to work at both on two wheels.

Neither I nor anyone else commenting on this are advocating removing bicycles from roadways or making the multi use path into a pedestrians only path. The problem is that these boys were riding in a manner that showed no regard for the safety of others or themselves.

They are not waiting in a queue. They are using shared resources selfishly. And I thought the LEOs did a pretty good job of trying to get them to see that they were being a bunch of dumbass kids who were going to get hurt in spite of their excellent bicycle handling skills.

A couple of nights ago Mrs. Dan and I walked the mile or so to the post office to mail a parcel. On our walk we witnessed a group of young men, probably in their 20's behaving in the same way, only they were driving automobiles. No lights on at night, unmuffled exhaust, exhibition of speed, etc. This is what the group you are defending will be in 10 years unless time and chance modify their behavior. Both these groups deserved an ASBO.

But what really galls me is the way you and Mr. Hamilton are trying to create heroes out of a bunch of spoiled brats. Then you throw in your race baiting and you are creating a poisonous stew that will do no good for anyone.
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Old 04-23-21, 11:50 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by DangerousDanR View Post
... On our walk we witnessed a group of young men, probably in their 20's behaving in the same way, ...

But what really galls me is the way you and Mr. Hamilton are trying to create heroes out of a bunch of spoiled brats. .
Exactly. "Spoiled brats". "Dumb kids". Disrespectful, just like some other spoiled kids you got mad at. That's really what you folks are upset about. So much so that you went to the trouble to compile a misleading timeline of misdeeds, a pretty pathetic list of criminal behavior even if you took it at face value (not to say anyone should)

Wrong side when there was no traffic. Half the commuters in this forum admit to doing that. I could go on but I won't, because all of that completely missed the point.

The takeaway here is that repressive ordinances are just fine with some bike forum members, as long as they're used as a pretext for giving some jerk his comeuppance. Even better if it's a kid.
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Old 04-23-21, 11:51 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by ridelikeaturtle View Post
... and if you ever use the term "snowflake", you are probably a racist.
Eh, that's turning back to surround and harass is one of the outrages that is mostly in the poster's imagination.
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