rumrunn6

no but I heard several gunshots ;-)

HobbesOnTour

I think of bike navigation in two parts;
The first is the planningThe second is the navigation.

It looks like a part of your problem is the planning. No GPS unit will make a bad route good.

Google Maps is not good for route planning.*

https://cycle.travel/map is excellent for planning routes, especially in Europe. You can download a gpx or tcx file to use in a gps device and/or cue sheets and pdf maps. Depending on the distance you want to cover a cue sheet and map may be all you need.

A useful app for your phone is Osmand. A bit clunky to get a hang of, it has many useful benefits especially the ability to plot a route totally offline. Its altitude information is excellent. It is also easy to create a gpx file and transfer to a gps unit if you get one.

You could take a route prepared in cycle.travel and navigate it using Osmand. Osmand has voice instructions but you would really need at least one headphone/earpiece. It will also reroute automatically if you go off course.

*Google Maps has one advantage for travelling - the ability to save areas in advance (if you have a Google account) These saved areas will "remember" any places you have saved as well as the usual Google Map info like Hotels etc.
Even offline Google Maps can create a route - but only for cars. That may not be helpful.

The "cheapest" gps unit you buy will the the one that does what you want it to do rather than buying anything at all and then finding out it doesn't suit you or your style.

AlanO

I call it a map.

dkatz1

If you get a holder to attach your phone to handle bars, you could hear it better. There are also various bike GPS apps.

dkatz1

Or a phone with a better screen. Phone can really function as a GPS....or at least a map folder to hang on the handlbars.

pdlamb

The great thing about opinions is that everybody has one. Or more.

Let me count the steps a potential user has to take to use their phone as a GPS:
1. Pick and install an app.. (The right app!)
2. Learn how to use that app.
3. Download maps for every area they might ride.
4. Update those maps periodically.
5. Learn how to use the phone and app while turning it off when it's not needed.
6. Buy the $8 waterproof pouch.

Six steps so far, right? but don't forget
7. Buy a cell phone mount for your bars (assumes you don't want to stop to look at the map)
8. Buy a cache battery for cell phone and figure out how to mount it.

So it can be done. One of my daughters would probably take this route to use her phone. I'd pay for the dedicated GPS. Other daughter is probably in between us. As with most "which is best?" questions, it comes down to a choice; in this case is your time or your money worth more to you?

njkayaker

There are similar steps for some of these for a separate device. Some of the others you make out to be a bigger deal than they are.

Also, since it's much, much easier to view maps on a phone, an app is a useful and cheap addition to a separate device!

Sure, it can be done. It's cheap and not as hard as you make it out (and people routinely consider the dedicated devices as being "too complicated"). It's also an enhancement to a separate device. It's a cheap backup too.

I won't presume to decide "which is best" for anybody.

If the OP can't afford a decent dedicated unit (one with map), why shouldn't he use what he has?

I use a dedicated device on the bike but, in other situations, use an app on my phone (which I nearly always have).

kombiguy

What is the clip you're using to hold your map? That looks like the exact thing I've been looking for.

stevel610 

Not mine. Just googled bicycle map holder.

njkayaker

https://www.cyclingabout.com/life-ul...ke-map-holder/

350htrr

What a bunch of B S , most of the answers are... JMO... If you have a phone, the solution is in your hands... If not, then a map and compass is/should be in your hands... It is that simple...

rumrunn6

fwiw - (before getting a modern smart phone) I've tried an old style battery operated auto GPS strapped to the bars. it works of course but not ideal. I later just kept it strapped to my rear trunk & just turned it on when I needed a directional tip. the battery doesn't last long. it doesn't have unpaved bike trails. but it can get you back to your car if you can find a road & have saved the location where you parked your car. I also tried using it to help me navigate the 22 miles from home to a new office. but really, the best way that I learned the route, was plotting it w/ google maps then repeatedly driving it with my car in both directions, even tho that wasn't the preferred driving route (which uses the highways). anyway, it was a fun experiment for a while

ksryder

I enjoy the lengths people will go to in order to avoid using a purpose-built GPS cycling computer.

njkayaker

You can bring a small external battery too. You also don't have to "use your phone all day long". And you don't need a "full charge" either. You used the example of riding in Cape Code. That's not really a place that you'd need to "stay overnight waiting for rescue". If that was a regular risk, then one wouldn't choose to use a phone continuously (and the cost of a dedicated device would be moot/unimportant). In such places, it's not unlikely at all that you wouldn't even have cell reception. You are making these things bigger deals than they really are.

??? But somehow you are required to "use your phone all day long".

This is silly.

That this is necessary is a common misconception. You really don't want to use a mapping app that relies on cell service.

blacknbluebikes 

"cheap navigation" is a sorta funny idea to begin with. like "discount surgery."

rumrunn6

thank you for your kind insult! ;-)

njkayaker

You made some interesting comments about paper maps and then imagined/exaggerated problems with using phones.

rumrunn6

sorry my reply was rushed, I was goofing off at work, then my boss walked in & handed me some work. you have valid counterpoints to my positions. surprised no one else latched on to them. only took slight offense to calling my concern for fellow cyclists on the side of the road as silly. I realized they are probably in heaven using their devices. in fact, today I put a Garmin 530 on my wish list. I tried to reply/quote each point you brought up but I couldn't figure out how & bossman was waiting ... I do loose cell service, especially out on "the Cape", I do turn off my phone to preserve battery life. it seems to really use up battery when it's out of service. wonder if it uses more power searching? but you brought up something maybe I forgot. do cell phone apps not use cell service? meaning, is there an actual satellite GPS transponder thing in my iPhone 5S? I know there is a compass. how wold a mapping app know where I was on a map, if not with cell service? or maybe I didn't understand your point: "You really don't want to use a mapping app that relies on cell service."related: recently read an article about a woman who crashed her car into some woods, didn't know where she was & 1st responders pinged her phone to locate her. were they using cell towers? I have done some dumb things & have been caught off guard, on the Cape, at night, during the winter. I was able to walk out & flag down a car & hitch a ride to a police station to get a tow truck, but others, in other parts of the country (or abroad) might not be so lucky. I know I can carry an extra cell battery, but thanks for the reminder

normaly a phone keeps it's charge all day. those stand alone auto gps batteries do not

njkayaker

Not surprised. Cell service is more spotty than many people realize. Phones can use more power out of range of cell service. You can use airplane mode (turn off the cell transceiver) to save power.

Yes, your smartphone has a GPS receiver in it (and that does not need cell service). (It's a GPS receiver, not a transponder.)

The phone is a computer with memory. There's nothing really forcing an app to need cell phone service. Indeed, for navigation, I recommend people not use an app that relies on a connection.

A cell phone is/has: a computer, a screen, a cell phone transceiver, a GPS receiver, a compass (maybe), and a barometer (maybe). The cycle navigational computer (generally) lacks the cell phone transceiver.

The GPS receiver that every smartphone has. The phones can also determine location using cell towers and WiFi network but these are much less accurate than GPS.

GPS is very accurate but takes a while to warm-up. Using the cell-towers is very fast but not accurate (this is used to get an approximate location to warm-up the GPS faster). WiFi is based on a database of WiFi names and locations determined (by GPS or cell-towers). This works indoors (unlike GPS).

The phone determines the location (either using GPS or cell towers but has to transmit that location to responders (this part requires a cell connection).

You'll need a cell connection in "other parts of the country (or abroad)". (I don't usually pay for cell phone coverage when I'm abroad.)


These devices are intended to be used plugged-into the car battery. The internal batteries for these are designed to keep the device operating over short interruptions of power.

rumrunn6

ksryder

Yep. If you start recording a ride on your phone (let's say with Strava because that's what I've done) and then put your phone on airplane mode it will still record your ride, then upload it once you re-enable network services.

I've done that as a backup on long rides just in case something goes haywire with my cycling computer.

njkayaker

There isn't a huge difference between a smartphone and a cycle computer like the 530. (The first is more focused on short/high-performance use and the second is designed for continuous use.)

(I added more info to that post.)

The phones are a useful and cheap addition to a cycle navigation unit.

The screen on the 530 is a bit small for navigation and its lack of a touch-screen makes doing some navigation stuff (like panning/zooming the map) harder (or impossible).

350htrr

I have had my phone battery last for 3 days and still have it on for the GPS for navigation and monitoring my ride with ride with GPS app... You just need to put the phone in airplane mode... and I carry a small external battery about the size of a deck of cards with which I can charge the phone 8 times...

ironwood

How did I get around the US and Europe without any electronics back in the seventies and eighties? Actually, I don't think I want a device that will tell me exactly where I am. I like to figure it out by myself, with the help of a map.


BITD I used to study a map before I set out on a tour, or a hike. I tried to visualize my route and the terrain I was traveling through and then tried to remember some of the important landmarks .


On the topic of navigation there are a couple of interesting books: Wayfinding: The Science and Mystery of how Humans Navigate, M.R. O'Connor, St. Martin's Press; and From Here to There: The Art and Science of Finding and Losing our Way by Michael Bond, Belknap/ Harvard University Press (to be published in August); and Nature ShockGetting Lost in America by John T. Coleman, Yale. It's an interesting subject. Animals, including our ancestors, have been navigating for millions of years without a GPS.

njkayaker

Well, no one is suggesting you should do anything different.

​​​​​​​They also all managed without bicycles too.