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At what point does road rage become assault

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At what point does road rage become assault

Old 07-16-21, 07:22 PM
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LarrySellerz
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At what point does road rage become assault

Today on the group ride an insane driver laid on the horn for a full minute, terrifying the group. I called the police hours later to ask if this is something they care about and the cop said yes, and that i should have called 911 so they could get a deputy out there incase he does this to others. Would you consider this to be assault. like I was worried someone would get spooked and crash
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Old 07-16-21, 07:33 PM
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Malicious mischief but not assault.
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Old 07-16-21, 07:43 PM
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https://www.nycbar.org/get-legal-hel...dents/assault/

"Assault occurs when one person intentionally causes another person to believe that he is in imminent danger of being the victim of harmful or offensive contact, in other words, the person must fear that he will be the victim of a battery. But no physical contact actually occurs."

https://www.nycbar.org/get-legal-hel...dents/battery/

"Battery is intentional, harmful contact by one person against another. Common batteries include beating with the hands, tripping, pushing, as well as more serious actions like stabbing, shooting or otherwise maiming a person with a dangerous instrument. Many, if not all, batteries can involve criminal, as well as civil liability."

It's best to avoid road rage since the cyclist always lose when it comes to a car.

BTW... Larry, another great topic. Were you wearing a cap when this happened?

Last edited by GlennR; 07-16-21 at 07:52 PM.
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Old 07-16-21, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
Today on the group ride an insane driver laid on the horn for a full minute, terrifying the group. I called the police hours later to ask if this is something they care about and the cop said yes, and that i should have called 911 so they could get a deputy out there incase he does this to others. Would you consider this to be assault. (?) like I was worried someone would get spooked and crash
No, unless the driver aimed their vehicle at me, pulled out a weapon, threw something at me, etc. The main thing here is remaining calm and not allowing their behavior to cause you to crash.

I once got a (nearly) minute long honk from a tractor trailer dump truck driver on my tail. He never got too close and passed me safely once he was able to.

I got a long honk from this guy but he never posed an actual threat:

https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting...k-trucker.html
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Old 07-16-21, 08:01 PM
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The honk felt like he was saying "Get the **** out of my way NOW" I wasn't worried that he would hit us so much as someone crashes out, it felt like a threat. Never seen a car this bad
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Old 07-16-21, 08:01 PM
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GlennR detailed it pretty much, of course the laws vary from state to state but I think that description probably fits most states' laws. Assault is an act which gives you the reasonable belief that the person intends to do you harm. Honking a horn doesn't qualify, unless they're revving their engine and acting like they're going to run over someone.
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Old 07-16-21, 08:10 PM
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Yes you were viciously assaulted that was at least 28th degree murder except in South Tennechusetts. You better raise Johnny Cochrane from the dead...If the honk doesn't hit you must throw a fit.

For those actually wondering; no it was not assault, it was not a good thing and it could have escalated as many road users are apt to do but not assault. If they physically attack you then that is assault. Honking can be annoying but rarely would it be assault unless you had physical damage from it.

Aggressive driving like that should be reported and certainly if they get physical you should have probably already done something about it. However one should be careful to document what is happening if you do end up defending yourself it is important to make sure you have on record that you were second not the first to get physical and do your best to not look worse than the driver. Unfortunately we live in a very pro-car pro assault culture where victims tend to get blamed and those who assault get away pretty clean.

I tend to find rather than getting aggressive myself it is way more fun to say "I love you too" and blow them a kiss or something silly like that. They tend to hate it because they want you to match them and get to fisticuffs but when you take the wind out of their sails they get more frustrated but generally deescalate a bit because they realize you aren't playing into their game. Now sometimes yeah it is fun to get aggressive and I am not perfect but it is always best to deescalate while also having a little fun yourself
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Old 07-16-21, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
Yes you were viciously assaulted that was at least 28th degree murder except in South Tennechusetts. You better raise Johnny Cochrane from the dead...If the honk doesn't hit you must throw a fit.

For those actually wondering; no it was not assault, it was not a good thing and it could have escalated as many road users are apt to do but not assault. If they physically attack you then that is assault. Honking can be annoying but rarely would it be assault unless you had physical damage from it.

Aggressive driving like that should be reported and certainly if they get physical you should have probably already done something about it. However one should be careful to document what is happening if you do end up defending yourself it is important to make sure you have on record that you were second not the first to get physical and do your best to not look worse than the driver. Unfortunately we live in a very pro-car pro assault culture where victims tend to get blamed and those who assault get away pretty clean.

I tend to find rather than getting aggressive myself it is way more fun to say "I love you too" and blow them a kiss or something silly like that. They tend to hate it because they want you to match them and get to fisticuffs but when you take the wind out of their sails they get more frustrated but generally deescalate a bit because they realize you aren't playing into their game. Now sometimes yeah it is fun to get aggressive and I am not perfect but it is always best to deescalate while also having a little fun yourself
If the timing is right, a warm cheeky air rip tends to change the mood almost instantly. Some may try to even compete, as long as they dont shart.
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Old 07-16-21, 08:21 PM
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It was more than a simple honk, never dealt with a driver that crazy before. How is threatening to kill us with his car not assault. He was holding the horn and driving uncomfortably close to us when he could have accelerated, deliberately trying to get a bunch of 50 riders to get single file. He decided to drive next to us for a full minute blaring his horn, after he passed there was gaps all over the group so many of us must have slowed down and pulled over which is dangerous in a fast tight group. If I had my bike lock with me and was in a crazier mood it could have gotten real bad, we were freaked out.

Last edited by LarrySellerz; 07-16-21 at 08:27 PM.
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Old 07-16-21, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
I tend to find rather than getting aggressive myself it is way more fun to say "I love you too" and blow them a kiss or something silly like that. They tend to hate it because they want you to match them and get to fisticuffs but when you take the wind out of their sails they get more frustrated but generally deescalate a bit because they realize you aren't playing into their game. Now sometimes yeah it is fun to get aggressive and I am not perfect but it is always best to deescalate while also having a little fun yourself
I do the same.

I also like when you have the opportunity to catch up to them at a light, they always roll up the window and lock the doors and all you're doing is waiting for the light to turn green.
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Old 07-16-21, 08:27 PM
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Odd... In some places laying on the horn is the last of the worries...
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Old 07-16-21, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
If it was a less experienced group I think someone would have panicked and crashed
"If this happened I think that would have happened" is just speculation on your part.

Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
How is threatening to kill us with his car not assault
Honking a horn, however aggressively, isn't the same thing threatening to kill. Were you a drama major in school?

Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
If I had my bike lock with me and was in a crazier mood it could have gotten real bad
And if it had, you would be the one guilty of assault.
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Old 07-16-21, 08:36 PM
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I'm really surprised that you guys harp on me for not wearing a helmet but think a car threatening a group ride isn't assault. the guy is a menace. Getting honked at solo is different than a guy acting super aggressively towards a group and causing us to suddenly change speed and position. Very dangerous.

Last edited by LarrySellerz; 07-16-21 at 08:39 PM.
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Old 07-16-21, 08:37 PM
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Sticks and Stones may break my bones but horns will never hurt me.
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Old 07-16-21, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
I'm really surprised that you guys harp on me for not wearing a helmet but think a car threatening a group ride isn't assault. the guy is a menace
If you don't wear a helmet, then wear a cap and flip the visor up so you look "pro".
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Old 07-16-21, 08:39 PM
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"Assault occurs when one person intentionally causes another person to believe that he is in imminent danger of being the victim of harmful or offensive contact, in other words, the person must fear that he will be the victim of a battery. But no physical contact actually occurs."

By definition I suppose some could consider the OP's incident assault. Good job not crashing or getting hurt, LS.
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Old 07-16-21, 08:44 PM
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General Cycling rubric: "Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!"

Appropriate forum for this thread's kind of nonsense: A&S.
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Old 07-16-21, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by badger1 View Post
General Cycling rubric: "Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!"

Appropriate forum for this thread's kind of nonsense: A&S.
a&s should be removed lol. It's defunct
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Old 07-16-21, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
It was more than a simple honk, never dealt with a driver that crazy before. How is threatening to kill us with his car not assault. He was holding the horn and driving uncomfortably close to us when he could have accelerated, deliberately trying to get a bunch of 50 riders to get single file. He decided to drive next to us for a full minute blaring his horn, after he passed there was gaps all over the group so many of us must have slowed down and pulled over which is dangerous in a fast tight group. If I had my bike lock with me and was in a crazier mood it could have gotten real bad, we were freaked out.
You literally just stated ‘I wasn’t worried that he would hit us’
How did that already turn into you now stating that he is threatening to kill you with his car?
So much drama lol.
You really should stop riding with your great aunt and her knitting group
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Old 07-16-21, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Rolla View Post
"If this happened I think that would have happened" is just speculation on your part.



Honking a horn, however aggressively, isn't the same thing threatening to kill. Were you a drama major queen in school?



And if it had, you would be the one guilty of assault.
Agree, and ... fify (minor emendation).
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Old 07-16-21, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by downhillmaster View Post
You literally just stated ‘I wasn’t worried that he would hit us’
How did that already turn into you now stating that he is threatening to kill you with his car?
So much drama lol.
You really should stop riding with your great aunt and her knitting group
he was acting insane and many of my fellow riders were scared, and I don't ride in a soft group. We have a reputation for being dangerous.
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Old 07-16-21, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
We have a reputation for being dangerous.
Hope you carry your organ donor card when you ride.
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Old 07-16-21, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
he was acting insane and many of my fellow riders were scared, and I don't ride in a soft group. We have a reputation for being dangerous.
I’m sure you were all quite scared
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Old 07-16-21, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by downhillmaster View Post
You literally just stated ‘I wasn’t worried that he would hit us’
How did that already turn into you now stating that he is threatening to kill you with his car?
So much drama lol.
You really should stop riding with your great aunt and her knitting group
Lol! I adored the next line from the op: "we have a reputation for being dangerous". Put me in mind of a classic.
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Old 07-16-21, 09:33 PM
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