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Does it bug anyone else - TdF and Merckx

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Does it bug anyone else - TdF and Merckx

Old 07-12-21, 01:24 PM
  #101  
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HOW do you watch the TDF??? I've spent hours trying to find a way to watch it live, but hit roadblocks everywhere. Eurosport says 'not available in your area', etc. etc. Appreciate a PM or a general description of how you can watch it live, preferable in high def on a TV. I'm in New Jersey. THANKS!
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Old 07-12-21, 01:24 PM
  #102  
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I'm conflicted, but not badly. Just to show, I'm going to drink to both of them. Bottoms up.............

And, nothing I've read or heard in the media has made Cavendish out to be the new Merckx (or any other GC contender in any race). The cycling media seem to me to pretty straight-up on his accomplishments and give him due credit for what he has done, which is no mean feat.

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Old 07-12-21, 01:28 PM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by icemilkcoffee View Post
I don't follow the TdF. I just don't understand how a rider who won 2 stages can be ranked 148 in the overall standings?
Pretty basic, over all position is based on elapsed time of each rider compared to all other riders. A bunch sprint out of peloton results in many riders getting similar times and even those in last place are not far behind. A mtn stage on other hand breaks apart peloton resulting in big time differences. Sprinters like Cavendish typically finish at back of such stages and lose significant time.
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Old 07-12-21, 01:31 PM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by BikeOnForever View Post
HOW do you watch the TDF??? I've spent hours trying to find a way to watch it live, but hit roadblocks everywhere. Eurosport says 'not available in your area', etc. etc. Appreciate a PM or a general description of how you can watch it live, preferable in high def on a TV. I'm in New Jersey. THANKS!
NBC Sports cable channel carries live everyday w/ repeats through day.
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Old 07-12-21, 02:32 PM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by clubman View Post
Maybe he could have been. It's the arrogant baldface lies and deceit that knocked him out of contention.

He was right about it not being about the bike.
The doping took him out of contention, the repeated lying and throwing team members under bus took him out of favor.
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Old 07-12-21, 02:42 PM
  #106  
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No, I'm not offended.

Originally Posted by scozim View Post
One advantage of working remotely this time of year is I can watch each stage of the Tour de France in the mornings as I work (and mute during conference calls). This year the commentators have been all over the fact that Mark Cavendish can surpass Eddy Merckx in the total number of TdF stage wins. Does this bug anyone else like it does me? Yeah, sure, he can have the record. But, it's apples to oranges in comparison. Cavendish is a sprinter (and a good one) whereas Merckx won sprints, mountain stages and time trials - and dominated. Maybe it's the same thing in comparing today's specialized pitchers in baseball to 50 years ago when you were expected to go the whole 9 innings as a starter. Now you have climbing specialists, time trial specialists and sprinters.

Guess I'm just sensitive in my old C&V age.
I would be offended if Cav were making a big deal out of this but he isn't. He respects the TdF and it's history and reveres Merkx for his 'cannibal' accomplishments. There is no comparison and Cav would be stupid to claim there were, but he's not. It's just the ignorant Media seeking content to fed to the ignorant masses. We cyclists know the truth. Merkx will always be one of if not the greatest competitive cyclists in history. Currently Cav is on track to become one of, if not the greatest, sprinters in history.

It's just the dumb media so get over it.

Last edited by bkwanab; 07-12-21 at 02:44 PM. Reason: Correct a typo
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Old 07-12-21, 02:53 PM
  #107  
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I try not to take professional sports too seriously because it appears like **** or slavery to me. Merckx said flat-out that he raced to support his family. I've been fortunate that I have not had to subject my body to all that suffering to make a living. I don't envy these racers much even though I do admire them a bit.
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Old 07-12-21, 02:56 PM
  #108  
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You're correct on all fronts. It's a dumb comparison, no doubt hyped for TV ratings. Win Cav wins a Tour, I'll recant my comment.
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Old 07-12-21, 02:57 PM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by noglider View Post
I try not to take professional sports too seriously because it appears like **** or slavery to me. Merckx said flat-out that he raced to support his family. I've been fortunate that I have not had to subject my body to all that suffering to make a living. I don't envy these racers much even though I do admire them a bit.
I figure it's entertainment, and I stopped idolizing anybody in the entertainment industry.

Cav is set to beat one of EM's many records, that is not the same as comparing himself to EM and he knows it and the press keeps pushing him to do it.
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Old 07-12-21, 07:48 PM
  #110  
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Came across some old adviz from the last bike store I worked at. The Cav was one of the cardboard posters. Thought it needed to go up here.



Maybe around 2015-ish
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Old 07-12-21, 08:42 PM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by BikeOnForever View Post
HOW do you watch the TDF??? I've spent hours trying to find a way to watch it live, but hit roadblocks everywhere. Eurosport says 'not available in your area', etc. etc. Appreciate a PM or a general description of how you can watch it live, preferable in high def on a TV. I'm in New Jersey. THANKS!
I subscribe to Hulu Live and NBCSN is part of the package. If I miss a stage I just catch a summary (usually 35-45 minutes long) on YouTube
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Old 07-13-21, 01:50 PM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by scozim View Post
One advantage of working remotely this time of year is I can watch each stage of the Tour de France in the mornings as I work (and mute during conference calls). This year the commentators have been all over the fact that Mark Cavendish can surpass Eddy Merckx in the total number of TdF stage wins. Does this bug anyone else like it does me? Yeah, sure, he can have the record. But, it's apples to oranges in comparison. Cavendish is a sprinter (and a good one) whereas Merckx won sprints, mountain stages and time trials - and dominated. Maybe it's the same thing in comparing today's specialized pitchers in baseball to 50 years ago when you were expected to go the whole 9 innings as a starter. Now you have climbing specialists, time trial specialists and sprinters.

Guess I'm just sensitive in my old C&V age.
Someday all of Merckx’s records will fall. It’s inconceivable that all those records will ever belong to a single individual again. Merckx is simply the GOAT. That said, Cav has finally tied a single TDF record that has stood for 45 years—a huge success that needs to be recognized. Cav’s success is minuscule when compared to Merckx. None the less, Cav’s TDF success is huge.
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Old 07-14-21, 01:15 AM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by icemilkcoffee View Post
I don't follow the TdF. I just don't understand how a rider who won 2 stages can be ranked 148 in the overall standings?
(Copying part of my comment from another thread.)

That's part of what makes grand tours like the TdF so fascinating. To many observers who aren't cyclists or don't follow racing, there's this 3-week "one race" won by a guy in a yellow jersey. But it's really a series of multiple races run concurrently by riders with differing skills chasing different goals. Sometimes, as with the Cannibal and the Badger, those goals overlap. Even in 1957, Jacques Anquetil's first overall win, the points leaders were also high in the GC. But rarely, nowadays, with more specialization. And the levels of competition, conditioning and skills across the entire peloton are higher now.

All those sub-categories of competitions within the overall chase for the yellow jersey are what really make the races appealing to the fans who crowd along the roadsides, especially at the intermediate sprint locations, KOM finishes, etc. Maybe this year, your local favorite, that kid you watched growing up through development squads, racing local crits, etc., snags a few points, an intermediate sprint or other prime, while his neighbors watch.

It's not unusual for the green jersey points leader to finish way down in the GC standings. Sagan typically finished in the middle of the GC pack -- and 4 hours and nearly 45 minutes behind in 2019. But Sagan is an exceptional athlete, a capable all-'rounder. In 2020 Bennett finished 136 out of 146 surviving contenders, more than 5 and a half hours behind the leader. So far Cav's standing is comparable to Bennett's. Not unusual for pure sprinters.

But the points leader contenders blow themselves up throughout each stage chasing lots of intermediate sprints and point opportunities. Then they try to make the time cut while expending as little energy as possible, conserving energy for the next day if they hope to finish the entire tour.

Technically Cavendish could win one more stage, then collapse and fail to keep the green jersey, scrape in just under the time cut as the lanterne rouge, abandon, crash out, whatever, fail to finish this tour, and still go down in history as the all time stage winner. It's just one of many available accolades. But I'm hoping he continues well and keeps the green jersey.

In an odd quirk, in 2018 Lawson Craddock became one of the memorable Lanterne Rouge last place finishers by dragging his aching body through the entire tour with a broken shoulder. It helps that he seems to be a genuinely nice guy and selfless team player. While there are no official accolades for being the lanterne rouge, fans of the TdF love this sort of trivia and minutiae. Probably because it's so relatable to those of us who get dropped on nearly every crit or fast group ride.

And in another recent thread, RChung does a great job of describing the oddities of the game theory and psychology of mass start bike racing.
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Old 07-14-21, 12:24 PM
  #114  
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One of my very favorite things was when Jens showed up at the front and while he didn't usually win a lot, NOBODY ever wanted to see him get involved.

Many times you can see some of the best in the business shake their head as if to say OH S**T, not Jens again.

Far and away some of the best moments in cycling when he did show up, IMHO.
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Old 07-14-21, 01:14 PM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post
One of my very favorite things was when Jens showed up at the front and while he didn't usually win a lot, NOBODY ever wanted to see him get involved.

Many times you can see some of the best in the business shake their head as if to say OH S**T, not Jens again.

Far and away some of the best moments in cycling when he did show up, IMHO.
Loved Jensie in the break.
We used to place bets as to how close to the line he would get caught.
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Old 07-14-21, 03:13 PM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by droppedandlost View Post
Loved Jensie in the break.
We used to place bets as to how close to the line he would get caught.
Yep, and he generally got caught but man it was fun watching how much it usually took to make that happen and and how little was usually left after doing so, fools errand on both sides but he always made it interesting when he showed up to the party.
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Old 07-16-21, 10:52 AM
  #117  
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Nice to see eddy merckx doing better health wise. Cheering on Mark.
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Old 07-16-21, 07:53 PM
  #118  
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We've had similar threads with Cippolini, Indurain, Lemond, Armstrong, and we'll have many more
The achievements of Merckx are writ in stone and anyone who challenges them shall be smitten down by our swords, pens, and social media accounts.

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Old 07-18-21, 07:07 PM
  #119  
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I'm glad Cavendish didn't break Eddy's record. Being beat by two Belgians was icing on the cake.
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Old 07-18-21, 10:19 PM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by SJX426 View Post
If you compare all the accomplishments between the two, no contest. There is a reason he was called the Cannibal.
Just to start, here is a wikipedia quote: "widely seen as the most successful rider in the history of competitive cycling. His victories include an unequalled eleven Grand Tours (five Tours of France, five Tours of Italy, and a Tour of Spain), all five Monuments, three World Championships, the hour record, every major one-day race other than Paris–Tours, and extensive victories on the track."

"As a road cyclist, Cavendish turned professional in 2005, and achieved eleven wins in his first professional season. Cavendish has won 33
Tour de France stages, putting him second on the all-time list, contributing to a third-highest total of fifty Grand Tour stage victories. He won the Men's road race at the 2011 road world championships, becoming the second male British rider to do so after Tom Simpson. Cavendish also won the points classification in all three of the grand tours: the 2010 Vuelta a España, the 2011 Tour de France, and the 2013 Giro d'Italia. In 2012, he became the first person to win the final Champs-Élysées stage in the Tour de France in four consecutive years."

Not exactly a lightweight --- even if he hasnt lived up to Merckx's lofty heights
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Old 07-18-21, 11:00 PM
  #121  
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Cavendish did as well as could be expected in a surprisingly challenging final stage. From some TV perspectives he might have been briefly boxed out, and at one point he had to stop pedaling for a split second when van Aert or Philipsen veered slightly left into Cav's line. A younger Cavendish might have tried to recklessly squirt through that briefly narrowed gap, but after several crashes and some serious injuries, he may have hesitated for only a split second, which was all it took to change the outcome.

But the reality is that van Aert had the better legs for the extended sprint finish, which was moved and extended a couple hundred yards for rider safety. He held enormous power for a long dang time to win that stage.

A younger Cav might have had the engine to start his long sprint sooner and hold it, but his real strength is an explosive short sprint, and ability to read the bunch and take advantage of the slightest mistake or miscalculation. The dice didn't roll Cav's way on this finish.

Unexpectedly good TdF, despite the early attrition that didn't really affect the yellow jersey.
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Old 07-19-21, 02:51 AM
  #122  
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It was obviously newsworthy but the media played it up a little extra for ratings. As far as I'm concerned Cav isn't even comparable to Sagan. Much less Merckx. I'm not a huge fan of guys who can do absolutely nothing but sprint and they have to have their poor teammates drag them over mountains so they don't get disqualified for being too slow. And I have a hunch that in this tour there were things going on with him behind the scenes way in the back with no cameras that maybe gave him a little extra help. You know Prudhomme wouldn't have wanted Cav to get disqualified with him and his comeback being the biggest story. But that's just me.

*edit* In fairness I do recognize that Cav can probably still climb at a level that I could only dream of

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Old 07-19-21, 01:16 PM
  #123  
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Watching this thread, the thing that really bugs me is the few and far between pics of bicycles.

Now that's a C&V cardinal rule.
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Old 07-19-21, 01:19 PM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by gugie View Post
Watching this thread, the thing that really bugs me is the few and far between pics of bicycles.

Now that's a C&V cardinal rule.
I hope this makes you happy!
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Old 07-19-21, 01:34 PM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by gearbasher View Post
I hope this makes you happy!


What's not to like? Eddy with an Eddy, and following all the Rules before they were written.

That and Eddy is The Prophet.
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