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Consensus on vintage binder bolts?

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Consensus on vintage binder bolts?

Old 07-21-21, 03:25 PM
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alexihnen 
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Consensus on vintage binder bolts?

Learning about the vintage bike world comes in phases. I'm in the seat binder bolt phase...

So...I think I need a Campagnolo seat binder with the serrated edge on one side, versus the "key" found on Sugino binder bolts. Are there alternatives to the Campagnolo binder or is it simply a ~$75 part you have to buy? If not, is there an alternative?
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Old 07-21-21, 04:03 PM
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-----

IIRC there were several makers who did the serrated type

some names recalled include REG, ROTO, Zeus


-----
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Old 07-21-21, 04:07 PM
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I never use a Campagnolo binder bolt after breaking 2.
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Old 07-21-21, 04:40 PM
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Also Simplex.
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Old 07-21-21, 04:57 PM
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So Iíll be looking for a vintage used binder bolt? Is there anything new that mimics the old Campagnolo one? Do people just use one without the ridged side that is fixed and use washers on both sides?
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Old 07-21-21, 05:01 PM
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There are non keyed binder bolts out there, I can’t recall the name though. You can always file the key off a Sugino. I have one bike that I ended up using some form a bolt with what I’m pretty sure is a chainring nut.

For the record, I’ve never broken a Campy binder bolt, but will now carry a spare because I’ve just tempted fate.
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Old 07-21-21, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by BFisher View Post
Also Simplex.
also Gipiemme (GPM)
FWIW I don't think the serrations actually do much especially after they have worn the inner surface of the seat lug ears and/or been worn too smooth to "bite", so I have no qualms about using an Asian bolt with the "tab" ground or filed off smooth.
Those cost far less than $75, even after I pay myself for the highly skilled labor of grinding and filing!
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Old 07-21-21, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Spaghetti Legs View Post
You can always file the key off a Sugino.
I've done this a couple of times recently. A cheap $8 new binder bolt plus a minute with the Dremel tool and Bob's your uncle.

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Old 07-21-21, 06:25 PM
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Campagnolo binder bolts were the worst. We got generic, Japanese, CrMo bolts that were far superior. When we couldn't get them, we used Sugino bolts and filed the key, when necessary.
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Old 07-21-21, 06:30 PM
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.
...I have busted a couple of those Campy seat binder bolts, one while installing, and one in use. which is a literal PIA. I. too, just file off the tab on the Asian one. Never broke one of those. Cinelli makes a kind of deluxe one, to fit the SC frames, but I don't think they work on anything else. And they're not cheap.
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Old 07-21-21, 06:41 PM
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Old 07-21-21, 06:54 PM
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^^^^cool^^^
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Old 07-21-21, 07:29 PM
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Campagnolo can be tightened 3 times only.
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Old 07-21-21, 08:10 PM
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The Campagnolo binder bolts have a reputation for breaking. I've broken two already. As others have noted, Campagnolo isn't the only game in town. Zeus binder bolts were the go-to alternative BITD, but others from REG, Roto, Gipiemme, and probably others can be found. Worst case: grind the key off a Sugino bolt and use two Allen wrenches when you secure the post.
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Old 07-21-21, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by iab View Post
Wait. You get Twizzlers In addition? I'm in!!! ( But 54 bucks? Yikes!)

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Old 07-21-21, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Ex Pres View Post
Campagnolo can be tightened 3 times only.
Oh come on! I tightened min AT LEAST 4 times before it failed!
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Old 07-21-21, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Ex Pres View Post
Campagnolo can be tightened 3 times only.
Originally Posted by rando_couche View Post
Oh come on! I tightened min AT LEAST 4 times before it failed!
Yikes, I think I'm at my limit with the one on my Raleigh International.
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Old 07-21-21, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
.
...I have busted a couple of those Campy seat binder bolts, one while installing, and one in use. which is a literal PIA. I. too, just file off the tab on the Asian one. Never broke one of those. Cinelli makes a kind of deluxe one, to fit the SC frames, but I don't think they work on anything else. And they're not cheap.
They don't and they aren't.
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Old 07-21-21, 11:53 PM
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I once broke the Simplex seat binder bolt on my PX10 and it sure was easy. Iíve havenít broken a Campy bolt yet but itís a near certainty that I will. I recently replaced a quick release seat bolt with a cheap Campy (style) bolt from my LBS, I think it cost me about $10 or so.
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Old 07-22-21, 01:05 AM
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+1 for breaking Campy bolts and filing down Suginos and using two allen wrenches.
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Old 07-22-21, 04:59 AM
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Broke one and ordered 2. Need to be gentle with them. The serration is useless. I always use two Allans. The force on the bolt is on the post side. When it is tightened , a bending force is applied to the bolt, stretching the post side. As you tighten it, the stress increases with the rotation with deformation rotating with the screw on the threaded side. Then POP!
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Old 07-22-21, 06:14 AM
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The Campy bolt for normal lugs with an 8 mm hole has a 6 mm thread. All the clones too, Zeus Simplex Sugino etc. Even the Richard Sachs, better metal no doubt but still just M6. I have a Jim Merz Campy clone in 6/4 Ti, but still just M6 thread.

The older style of bolt was 8 mm with an external nut on it, a bit heavier and the wrench to fit it is a lot bigger/heavier, not something you'd want to bring with you. But if you want one, you won't find one nicer than this Cinelli, for sale by Boulder Bikes

You definitely won't break it!

Another option might be the best of both worlds, the Campy 10 mm seatpost pinchbolt, which has an 8 mm thread. Godlike reliability, light weight, and takes a 5 mm allen wrench.


Downside is you need to drill or ream the hole in the seat lug to 10 mm, and then forever after you'll be stuck with this 10 mm bolt. Hardly anyone else made them in that size, though some triple chainring bolts work in that location. In fact the Campy 10 mm seatpost bolt is hardly any different from their triple chainring bolts, other than the female side has knurling on the seatpost bolt, versus two tiny notches for a chainring nut spanner.

Some frames can't be embiggened to 10 mm, and even if you can, finding one of these rare Campy bolts isn't easy. They were never popular. Triple chainring bolts are a thousand times easier to find, and they work great. Functionally just as good as the rare Campy seatpost bolt, but not as pretty on the backside, not bright chrome plated, no iconic 'Patent Campagnolo' stamping. I put one on my '71 Super Course in about '72, just about the first upgrade I did on the bike. Found the chainring bolt in the bikeshop's junk bin, a lonely triple bolt, good for nothing else when you don't have 5 of them, so it was a free upgrade. (Or maybe I just palmed it without telling the boss. Don't rat me out OK?) The Nervex Pro seat lug was very easy to embiggen to 10 mm. I think I used a tapered hand reamer. That part is still on that bike to this day. I still have the bike, one owner for 50 years.

Mark B

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Old 07-22-21, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Andy_K View Post
I've done this a couple of times recently. A cheap $8 new binder bolt plus a minute with the Dremel tool and Bob's your uncle.

After dropping $40+ on a campagnolo bolt a number of years ago, shearing it this spring (after a long time and many uses) and seeing new ones in the $50-60 range, I decided to spend $10 on 3 keyed bolts and $50 on a t-handled torque wrench for allen keys. Less thaqn 5 minutes with the dremel had me with one perfect binder bolt and 2 not quite smooth but usable binder bolts without keys. Then, I went to put one of my newly keyless binder bolts in the bike that I'd stolen a keyless one from to replace the campagnolo bolt I'd broken (the bike with the broken bolt was ridden daily, the one I'd borrowed my last keyless bolt from was actually just a frameset) only to find that the bolt hole had a slot for the key. Oh well, it was only 5 minutes and a little wear on my metal cutoff disk and I'm ready for the next time it happens (though my torque wrench hopefully means it won't).

Richard Sachs sells fancy campagnolo-style binder bolts but with slightly rounded fixtures to that they can pivot in the hole as the ear alignment changes as you tighten the bolt, but I think those run in the $50-60 range. IRD also used to make a keyless bolt that sold in the $15-20 range, but, when I looked this spring, no one had them in stock.
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Old 07-22-21, 07:37 AM
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I see them on Amazon with a key ridge for about $10. If the length is listed as 16 mm, does the represent the minimum or maximum opening?
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Old 07-22-21, 08:52 AM
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The RS kit is $54 the bolt itself is $39.
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