Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Addiction LXXVIII

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Addiction LXXVIII

Old 04-08-20, 08:29 AM
  #1251  
ls01
he said member
 
ls01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: is everything
Posts: 13,736

Bikes: yes please

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2753 Post(s)
Liked 1,924 Times in 1,186 Posts
Originally Posted by indyfabz
What do YOU mean "You people."?


finally!
ls01 is offline  
Old 04-08-20, 08:29 AM
  #1252  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,505

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 353 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20791 Post(s)
Liked 9,436 Times in 4,663 Posts
Originally Posted by ls01
holy halibut, I was 6
I was 7 years away from being born.
WhyFi is offline  
Old 04-08-20, 08:34 AM
  #1253  
MoAlpha
• —
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 12,151

Bikes: Shmikes

Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10101 Post(s)
Liked 5,781 Times in 3,111 Posts
Originally Posted by WhyFi
Addiction/VA/Cervelo ride meet-up.

You know - if the zombies don't get us first.
We can also meet up in Naptown and go sailing.
MoAlpha is offline  
Likes For MoAlpha:
Old 04-08-20, 08:35 AM
  #1254  
big john
Senior Member
 
big john's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the foothills of Los Angeles County
Posts: 25,095
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8183 Post(s)
Liked 8,841 Times in 4,390 Posts
Originally Posted by noodle soup
I love this version of Can't Find My Way Home.I
Me too.
big john is offline  
Old 04-08-20, 08:38 AM
  #1255  
big john
Senior Member
 
big john's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the foothills of Los Angeles County
Posts: 25,095
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8183 Post(s)
Liked 8,841 Times in 4,390 Posts
Originally Posted by Trsnrtr
FTR, I graduated HS in 1969. I'm not sure anyone here is older than me. Billy? Seeds?
Beat me by 2 years. Maybe 1.5 because Winter 1971.
big john is offline  
Old 04-08-20, 08:41 AM
  #1256  
ericy
Señor Member
 
ericy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Rehoboth Beach, DE
Posts: 1,523

Bikes: Giant OCR2, Trek DS 8.3

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 416 Post(s)
Liked 48 Times in 32 Posts
Originally Posted by Trsnrtr
Don't you think it's because you can't effectively lighten your load? At least that's what I always feel when on a trainer. It's that constant pressure all the time even when you try to ease up.
That's it for me. It is hard for me to dial it back to a leisurely pace - even when my intention is to do a so-called recovery ride. I just get pulled into trying to push harder and harder. All of those other riders passing me I guess - plays tricks with my mind.
ericy is offline  
Old 04-08-20, 08:47 AM
  #1257  
indyfabz
Senior Member
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,050
Mentioned: 210 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18318 Post(s)
Liked 15,272 Times in 7,224 Posts
Originally Posted by ls01
holy halibut, I was 6
I was 4.
indyfabz is online now  
Old 04-08-20, 08:55 AM
  #1258  
datlas 
Should Be More Popular
 
datlas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malvern, PA (20 miles West of Philly)
Posts: 42,952

Bikes: 1986 Alpine (steel road bike), 2009 Ti Habenero, 2013 Specialized Roubaix

Mentioned: 560 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22507 Post(s)
Liked 8,829 Times in 4,110 Posts
Originally Posted by WhyFi
I dumb. That's what I meant. So does it feel similar to when you're on the road or worse?
Feels worse. I may have a lower threshold on the trainer to say "screw it, I am done" compared to on the road.

I am not racing so don't really care a whole lot about it, but it's indeed frustrating to lose the draft benefits on Zwift (for whatever reason), get gapped, dial it up to 400W to get back to the group only to be dropped by the group in 2 minutes because I can't maintain the (previously sustainable) effort required.
__________________
Originally Posted by rjones28
Addiction is all about class.
datlas is offline  
Old 04-08-20, 09:00 AM
  #1259  
MoAlpha
• —
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 12,151

Bikes: Shmikes

Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10101 Post(s)
Liked 5,781 Times in 3,111 Posts
Originally Posted by datlas
Feels worse. I may have a lower threshold on the trainer to say "screw it, I am done" compared to on the road.

I am not racing so don't really care a whole lot about it, but it's indeed frustrating to lose the draft benefits on Zwift (for whatever reason), get gapped, dial it up to 400W to get back to the group only to be dropped by the group in 2 minutes because I can't maintain the (previously sustainable) effort required.
Yup,it sure is. Your description applies to about 68% of my real world racing experience.
MoAlpha is offline  
Old 04-08-20, 09:00 AM
  #1260  
datlas 
Should Be More Popular
 
datlas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malvern, PA (20 miles West of Philly)
Posts: 42,952

Bikes: 1986 Alpine (steel road bike), 2009 Ti Habenero, 2013 Specialized Roubaix

Mentioned: 560 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22507 Post(s)
Liked 8,829 Times in 4,110 Posts
Charoset done and tastes fantastic. Matzoh ball soup done.



__________________
Originally Posted by rjones28
Addiction is all about class.
datlas is offline  
Likes For datlas:
Old 04-08-20, 09:10 AM
  #1261  
LAJ
So it is
 
LAJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Westminster, CO
Posts: 21,221

Bikes: Luzerne, 684, Boreas, Wheelhouse, Alize©®, Bayamo, Cayo

Mentioned: 245 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11318 Post(s)
Liked 4,632 Times in 2,698 Posts
Originally Posted by datlas
I just did another virtual ride on Zwift.

I have a question for people who have trained more with power. I notice that I can ride say "easy-all day" at something like Zone 2, no problem....Zone 3, mildly hard but can still maintain for a long time. Getting into Zone 4 is fine for a few minutes but I can't sustain it indefinitely, and of course Zone 5 is short term. I think that's "normal."

The problem is on Zwift, sometimes there is a sprint or a hill and I have to go beyond Zone 5, say 140-200% of FTP. I do that as best I can for several seconds to bridge the gap or not get dropped....but once I do that effort, even staying in Zone 3 is hard for me. I feel totally shot and have to drop to Zone 1 for a few minutes to recover. What happens on Zwift is that I burn matches, bridge the gap, only to get dropped because I can't maintain Zone 2/3.

It's hard to say how much of this weakness is mental and how much is physiologic, I suspect it's both.

Any comments or advice?
This is very typical for a club rider. 50-60 mile rides are what you enjoy, and when they get longer, I think you say you get bored? You have base all set for that ride, and can hold that pace as long as you want. You can coast when you want, and pedal when you like, and on the road, you're only going by HR. That stands to reason you're going to like that ride more, and be able to "hold" power easier, because as said, micro-resting, coasting, all that is a small recovery. Hold Z2 on the trainer for two hours, true upper Z2, and don't stop pedaling. Same on the road. No coasting. Once that happens, up it to 2.5, 3 hours, more. That's setting the base for the rest of the riding you'll do. If you can do that, you'll be a faster club rider, but you'll still get blown out the back door in the next race you do.

Once you start doing the stuff that makes you breathe hard, and limit recovery, is when you'll be able to do the race stuff. My breathing hard base stuff was 2' on, 1 minute rest, 4 times per set, 4 sets, 5 minutes rest between sets. Now when I do 2 on, 2 off, it's like a vacation, and my numbers are up. Same with 40" on, 20 easy (easy=lowZ2/High Z1/No actual rest) for 10 minutes, rest 8-10' between each, times 4. Nasty, and breathing is off the chart, but that's what it's about. 5x6' 120% 5 rest between, 3x20' 105% 10 rest between, stuff like that is the cherry on top.

You train to train better, which transfers to racing strong. Racing well is a whole nuther deal.
LAJ is offline  
Likes For LAJ:
Old 04-08-20, 09:11 AM
  #1262  
LAJ
So it is
 
LAJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Westminster, CO
Posts: 21,221

Bikes: Luzerne, 684, Boreas, Wheelhouse, Alize©®, Bayamo, Cayo

Mentioned: 245 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11318 Post(s)
Liked 4,632 Times in 2,698 Posts
You people are old.
LAJ is offline  
Likes For LAJ:
Old 04-08-20, 09:16 AM
  #1263  
datlas 
Should Be More Popular
 
datlas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malvern, PA (20 miles West of Philly)
Posts: 42,952

Bikes: 1986 Alpine (steel road bike), 2009 Ti Habenero, 2013 Specialized Roubaix

Mentioned: 560 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22507 Post(s)
Liked 8,829 Times in 4,110 Posts
Originally Posted by laj
you people are old.
goml!

__________________
Originally Posted by rjones28
Addiction is all about class.
datlas is offline  
Likes For datlas:
Old 04-08-20, 09:16 AM
  #1264  
seedsbelize 
smelling the roses
 
seedsbelize's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Tixkokob, Yucatán, México
Posts: 15,428

Bikes: 79 Trek 930, 80 Trek 414, 84 Schwinn Letour Luxe (coupled), 92 Schwinn Paramount PDG 5

Mentioned: 104 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7081 Post(s)
Liked 901 Times in 612 Posts
Originally Posted by Pirkaus
Schrödinger's cat illustrates the observation problem well, once you wrap your head around it. Like so many things, humans try to apply Earthly terms to quantum problems, it doesn't work people. Look at the solar system, it could just as easily be a single atom in a larger world and universe. Space is so vast, that our mortal time frame limits our distance capacity. Now, don't forget the faster you move, the slower time progresses, in you frame of reference, so earth years become meaningless. Oh, lets not for get E=Mc2, the faster something travels the more massive it becomes. You would become infinitely massive, the closer to the speed of light you reach. Thus you would require infinite energy, to hold your speed. Let's just leave the amount of energy required to warp space out, unless you like to sovle that too.
Discuss
With teleportation, all that would be meaningless

Last edited by seedsbelize; 04-08-20 at 09:30 AM.
seedsbelize is offline  
Old 04-08-20, 09:18 AM
  #1265  
datlas 
Should Be More Popular
 
datlas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malvern, PA (20 miles West of Philly)
Posts: 42,952

Bikes: 1986 Alpine (steel road bike), 2009 Ti Habenero, 2013 Specialized Roubaix

Mentioned: 560 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22507 Post(s)
Liked 8,829 Times in 4,110 Posts
Originally Posted by LAJ
This is very typical for a club rider. 50-60 mile rides are what you enjoy, and when they get longer, I think you say you get bored? You have base all set for that ride, and can hold that pace as long as you want. You can coast when you want, and pedal when you like, and on the road, you're only going by HR. That stands to reason you're going to like that ride more, and be able to "hold" power easier, because as said, micro-resting, coasting, all that is a small recovery. Hold Z2 on the trainer for two hours, true upper Z2, and don't stop pedaling. Same on the road. No coasting. Once that happens, up it to 2.5, 3 hours, more. That's setting the base for the rest of the riding you'll do. If you can do that, you'll be a faster club rider, but you'll still get blown out the back door in the next race you do.

Once you start doing the stuff that makes you breathe hard, and limit recovery, is when you'll be able to do the race stuff. My breathing hard base stuff was 2' on, 1 minute rest, 4 times per set, 4 sets, 5 minutes rest between sets. Now when I do 2 on, 2 off, it's like a vacation, and my numbers are up. Same with 40" on, 20 easy (easy=lowZ2/High Z1/No actual rest) for 10 minutes, rest 8-10' between each, times 4. Nasty, and breathing is off the chart, but that's what it's about. 5x6' 120% 5 rest between, 3x20' 105% 10 rest between, stuff like that is the cherry on top.

You train to train better, which transfers to racing strong. Racing well is a whole nuther deal.
Agree. And I don’t have any interest in racing. I can still drop most of my friends on the hills.

#GoodEnough
__________________
Originally Posted by rjones28
Addiction is all about class.
datlas is offline  
Likes For datlas:
Old 04-08-20, 09:19 AM
  #1266  
rjones28 
Mostly Harmless
 
rjones28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Chittenango, NY
Posts: 56,467

Bikes: Have two wheels

Mentioned: 169 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13636 Post(s)
Liked 4,445 Times in 2,468 Posts
Originally Posted by LAJ
You people are old.
Tell me about it.
__________________
Originally Posted by patentcad
If this thread doesn't go 10 pages I'm quitting BF.
rjones28 is offline  
Old 04-08-20, 09:24 AM
  #1267  
seedsbelize 
smelling the roses
 
seedsbelize's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Tixkokob, Yucatán, México
Posts: 15,428

Bikes: 79 Trek 930, 80 Trek 414, 84 Schwinn Letour Luxe (coupled), 92 Schwinn Paramount PDG 5

Mentioned: 104 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7081 Post(s)
Liked 901 Times in 612 Posts
Originally Posted by Trsnrtr
FTR, I graduated HS in 1969. I'm not sure anyone here is older than me. Billy? Seeds?
Graduated in 70.
Penmman is older, but he's not around anymore
seedsbelize is offline  
Old 04-08-20, 09:35 AM
  #1268  
seedsbelize 
smelling the roses
 
seedsbelize's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Tixkokob, Yucatán, México
Posts: 15,428

Bikes: 79 Trek 930, 80 Trek 414, 84 Schwinn Letour Luxe (coupled), 92 Schwinn Paramount PDG 5

Mentioned: 104 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7081 Post(s)
Liked 901 Times in 612 Posts
I just got in from my road ride. Smelling the roses effort. I was all prepared for any questions they might have for me at the checkpoint. He recognized me and waved me through. Much ado about nothing. I hope it holds as we get deeper into this thing.
​​​​​Velo Vol I wore my mask throughout 22 miles of riding, except to take a drink
__________________
Originally Posted by Bah Humbug
Auto-pause is a honey-tongued devil whispering sweet lies in your ear.


seedsbelize is offline  
Likes For seedsbelize:
Old 04-08-20, 09:44 AM
  #1269  
Velo Vol 
VFL For Life
 
Velo Vol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 51,041

Bikes: Velo Volmobile

Mentioned: 780 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28430 Post(s)
Liked 1,828 Times in 1,298 Posts
Originally Posted by LAJ
You people are old.
Correct.
Originally Posted by seedsbelize
Penmman is older, but he's not around anymore
RIP
Originally Posted by seedsbelize
​​​​​Velo Vol I wore my mask throughout 22 miles of riding, except to take a drink
One kudos minus 1/2 kudos for the drink = 0.5 kudos

Checkpoint? wut
__________________
Originally Posted by Velo Vol
People here don't get it.
Velo Vol is offline  
Old 04-08-20, 10:13 AM
  #1270  
MoAlpha
• —
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 12,151

Bikes: Shmikes

Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10101 Post(s)
Liked 5,781 Times in 3,111 Posts
Hey, @datlas, 8 APR model run!

https://covid19.healthdata.org
MoAlpha is offline  
Old 04-08-20, 10:19 AM
  #1271  
datlas 
Should Be More Popular
 
datlas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malvern, PA (20 miles West of Philly)
Posts: 42,952

Bikes: 1986 Alpine (steel road bike), 2009 Ti Habenero, 2013 Specialized Roubaix

Mentioned: 560 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22507 Post(s)
Liked 8,829 Times in 4,110 Posts
Originally Posted by MoAlpha
Hey, @datlas, 8 APR model run!

https://covid19.healthdata.org
I see that.

One issue, I expect a much longer "tail" in the distribution and some undulation in said tail, based on loosening of restrictions and people getting more confident and taking more risks These models don't factor that in.

My first "death panel" teleconference is 2PM today. I am feeling more hopeful that such services won't be needed, but we can't get too confident just yet.
__________________
Originally Posted by rjones28
Addiction is all about class.
datlas is offline  
Old 04-08-20, 10:23 AM
  #1272  
MoAlpha
• —
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 12,151

Bikes: Shmikes

Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10101 Post(s)
Liked 5,781 Times in 3,111 Posts
Originally Posted by datlas
I see that.

One issue, I expect a much longer "tail" in the distribution and some undulation in said tail, based on loosening of restrictions and people getting more confident and taking more risks These models don't factor that in.

My first "death panel" teleconference is 2PM today. I am feeling more hopeful that such services won't be needed, but we can't get too confident just yet.
You're right. This is a system that could easily oscillate. I guess they don't model in any future changes in regime or behavior.

Very interested in your death panel experience.
MoAlpha is offline  
Old 04-08-20, 10:28 AM
  #1273  
Velo Vol 
VFL For Life
 
Velo Vol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 51,041

Bikes: Velo Volmobile

Mentioned: 780 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28430 Post(s)
Liked 1,828 Times in 1,298 Posts
Originally Posted by datlas
My first "death panel" teleconference is 2PM today.
Better practice.


__________________
Originally Posted by Velo Vol
People here don't get it.
Velo Vol is offline  
Old 04-08-20, 10:37 AM
  #1274  
BillyD
Administrator
Thread Starter
 
BillyD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posts: 32,895

Bikes: Merlin Cyrene '04; Bridgestone RB-1 '92

Mentioned: 325 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11889 Post(s)
Liked 6,482 Times in 3,411 Posts
Originally Posted by Velo Vol
You're traveling to a distant star by spaceship and you can only take three of your favorite songs from high school with you.

Go,
For me just three is virtually impossible, because during high school both R&B and Rock & Roll were exploding onto the scene simultaneously. Here's a dozen samples.

1963 Can I get a witness - Marvin Gaye
1964 You never can tell - Chuck Berry
1964 Runnin' out of fools - Aretha Franklin
1964 She loves you - Beatles
1965 Azucar - Eddie Palmeri
1965 I can't help myself - Four Tops
1965 I've been loving you too long - Otis Redding
1965 Satisfaction - Rolling Stones
1966 My world is empty without you - Supremes
1966 Uptight - Stevie Wonder
1966 Mustang Sally - Wilson Pickett
1966 The sound of silence - Simon & Garfunkel
__________________
See, this is why we can't have nice things. - - smarkinson
Where else but the internet can a bunch of cyclists go and be the tough guy? - - jdon
BillyD is offline  
Old 04-08-20, 10:45 AM
  #1275  
BillyD
Administrator
Thread Starter
 
BillyD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posts: 32,895

Bikes: Merlin Cyrene '04; Bridgestone RB-1 '92

Mentioned: 325 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11889 Post(s)
Liked 6,482 Times in 3,411 Posts
Originally Posted by noodle soup
I got the call from my employer today, and I've been furloughed.

I'll be fine financially(in theory) if this doesn't last more than 6 months, but what am I supposed to do with all this free time?
I hear it's great riding weather in those climes for a young buck.
__________________
See, this is why we can't have nice things. - - smarkinson
Where else but the internet can a bunch of cyclists go and be the tough guy? - - jdon
BillyD is offline  
Likes For BillyD:

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.