Go Back  Bike Forums > The Lounge > Coronavirus/COVID-19
Reload this Page >

Not wanting to get vaccinated?

Notices
Coronavirus/COVID-19 Discussion of the novel coronavirus

Not wanting to get vaccinated?

 
Old 12-10-20, 11:46 AM
  #1  
TakingMyTime
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Los Alamitos, Calif.
Posts: 2,093

Bikes: Trek 7.4 FX, 5200 & 7700

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 790 Post(s)
Liked 587 Times in 356 Posts
Not wanting to get vaccinated?

Maybe there's already been a thread covering this, but I'm really surprised by the reporting I'm seeing saying how many people would not want to take the vaccine. Personally, I'd get in line right now if they'd let me.
TakingMyTime is offline  
Likes For TakingMyTime:
Old 12-10-20, 12:01 PM
  #2  
Hondo Gravel
es ist mir egal
 
Hondo Gravel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Hondo,Texas
Posts: 2,063

Bikes: Too many Motobecanes

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2169 Post(s)
Liked 2,265 Times in 1,462 Posts
It will just get to you faster.
Hondo Gravel is offline  
Likes For Hondo Gravel:
Old 12-10-20, 02:16 PM
  #3  
Seattle Forrest
Senior Member
 
Seattle Forrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 22,129
Mentioned: 78 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15211 Post(s)
Liked 6,395 Times in 3,623 Posts
I wouldn't want to take the vaccine. In a perfect world there would be no pandemic and no need for it, in a less perfect fantasy I'll just keep myself safe and not exposed. Who wants to take the fastest developed vaccine in history* especially knowing it'll give you a headache and sore body?

But I want covid even less.

It really isn't unreasonable to be uneasy about this. There are a lot of people who aren't anti-vaxxers who are worried in this particular case especially about the possibility of long term side effects from the vaccine, because it hasn't been around long enough to know whether there are any. We don't know how the vaccines available might interact with other medicines people are taking. People aren't stupid or paranoid for being worried about this stuff.

* The covid-19 vaccine is a continuation of the work that was done on the SARS vaccine and benefits from a lot of knowledge humans have gained since the first vaccines were made, including from the ebola vax in the previous decade. What we have today isn't as wildly new as people think.
Seattle Forrest is offline  
Likes For Seattle Forrest:
Old 12-10-20, 03:08 PM
  #4  
alo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,059
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 528 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 254 Times in 185 Posts
We are being given a lot of false information. For example:

People who have had the vaccine can still get infected. So do you really benefit?

In some trials there have been some serious side effects, which most people don't hear about.

I suggest people wait as long as possible, and see if more information comes out in the future. They may or may not successfully suppress all negative information in the future.

There are many medical professionals speaking up about a range of issues.

I posted a link to one video in another topic, and it got deleted. They probably don't want me to post it again. But it was really good information. It is sad that some people wont even allow another perspective to be expressed.

I suggest, consider information from many different sources, and decide for yourself.
alo is offline  
Old 12-10-20, 03:21 PM
  #5  
Biker395 
Seat Sniffer
 
Biker395's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: SoCal
Posts: 5,211

Bikes: 2008 Scott CR1 Pro; 2006 Schwinn Fastback Pro and 1996 Colnago Decor Super C96; 2003 Univega Alpina 700; 2000 Schwinn Super Sport

Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 760 Post(s)
Liked 729 Times in 290 Posts
Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel View Post
It will just get to you faster.
Yep. All the more for the rest of us.
__________________
Proud parent of a happy inner child ...

Biker395 is offline  
Old 12-10-20, 03:24 PM
  #6  
Biker395 
Seat Sniffer
 
Biker395's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: SoCal
Posts: 5,211

Bikes: 2008 Scott CR1 Pro; 2006 Schwinn Fastback Pro and 1996 Colnago Decor Super C96; 2003 Univega Alpina 700; 2000 Schwinn Super Sport

Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 760 Post(s)
Liked 729 Times in 290 Posts
Originally Posted by alo View Post
We are being given a lot of false information. For example:

People who have had the vaccine can still get infected. So do you really benefit?

In some trials there have been some serious side effects, which most people don't hear about.
The vaccines are showing 90-95% effective. That is a whole lot better than zero and more than enough to end the pandemic if enough people ignore all the misinformation and get vaccinated.

Covid is a far more likely and far more serious "side effect" of not getting the vaccine. Or, you could self quarantine forever ...
__________________
Proud parent of a happy inner child ...

Biker395 is offline  
Old 12-10-20, 03:37 PM
  #7  
work4bike
Senior Member
 
work4bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlantic Beach Florida
Posts: 1,462
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2163 Post(s)
Liked 333 Times in 251 Posts
I'm not going to be running out to get the vaccine, not that I'm worried about the safety of the vaccine; I'm just not as worried about Covid as so many others -- what can I say, I'm an animal

The main reason I'm not going to run out and get one, is because there is a limited supply and I know there are some anti-vaxxers out there, but from what I've seen with everything considered, I do believe people are really freaked out and there will be very long lines to get these shots.

I say, let them have it if that'll calm them down; no need for me to take someone else's dosage.

I think this video should reduce any anxiety anyone has over the safety of this vaccine, except for the super anti-vaxxers -- you'll never change the mind of conspiracy theorists. They live in a very powerful echo chamber.

work4bike is offline  
Old 12-10-20, 03:39 PM
  #8  
Bigbus
Very Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Always on the Run
Posts: 1,211

Bikes: Giant Quasar & Fuji Roubaix

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 412 Post(s)
Liked 339 Times in 241 Posts
I'm just going to quarantine forever. Even though I love humanity, I can't stand people.
Bigbus is offline  
Likes For Bigbus:
Old 12-10-20, 04:24 PM
  #9  
alo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,059
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 528 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 254 Times in 185 Posts
Originally Posted by Biker395 View Post
The vaccines are showing 90-95% effective.
How do you define 90-95% effective?

The trials have been done in too little time to know.

Let's say, 100 people get the vaccine, and 100 get a placebo, and the trial lasts for 2 months. In the 2 months, 3 people who had the placebo get the coronavirus. How many of the people who have had the vaccine would need to get the virus for it to be 90-95% effective?

Most clinical trials are done over much longer periods of time. Most drugs are tested for years. They have broken their own rules to get this out quickly.

The number of people getting infected during these short trials has been too little to be statistically significant.
alo is offline  
Old 12-10-20, 05:34 PM
  #10  
Seattle Forrest
Senior Member
 
Seattle Forrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 22,129
Mentioned: 78 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15211 Post(s)
Liked 6,395 Times in 3,623 Posts
Originally Posted by alo View Post
We are being given a lot of false information. For example:

People who have had the vaccine can still get infected. So do you really benefit?

In some trials there have been some serious side effects, which most people don't hear about.


I suggest people wait as long as possible, and see if more information comes out in the future. They may or may not successfully suppress all negative information in the future.

There are many medical professionals speaking up about a range of issues.

I posted a link to one video in another topic, and it got deleted. They probably don't want me to post it again. But it was really good information. It is sad that some people wont even allow another perspective to be expressed.

I suggest, consider information from many different sources, and decide for yourself.
I'd like to comment on this, I hope you don't mind.

You can still die in a car accident if you wear a seatbelt. Do you really benefit from them? Yes, because they'll save your life in most accidents that would have killed you without one. There can be side effects, the seatbelt can break your rib and puncture your lung. Ask me how I know. But an impact like that would have killed you without one. As far as the vaccine goes, we don't know if you can get sick afterwards or not, or how long after. But we do know that if you can get sick after the vaccination it will be much less so than without the vax. Because the vax teaches your body to recognize the virus, so it can get to the work of healing you faster. There is every reason to think you will be less able/likely to infect others even if you get sick after being vaccinated for the same reason.
Seattle Forrest is offline  
Old 12-10-20, 05:37 PM
  #11  
Seattle Forrest
Senior Member
 
Seattle Forrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 22,129
Mentioned: 78 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15211 Post(s)
Liked 6,395 Times in 3,623 Posts
Originally Posted by work4bike View Post
I'm not going to be running out to get the vaccine, not that I'm worried about the safety of the vaccine; I'm just not as worried about Covid as so many others -- what can I say, I'm an animal

The main reason I'm not going to run out and get one, is because there is a limited supply and I know there are some anti-vaxxers out there, but from what I've seen with everything considered, I do believe people are really freaked out and there will be very long lines to get these shots.

I say, let them have it if that'll calm them down; no need for me to take someone else's dosage.

I think this video should reduce any anxiety anyone has over the safety of this vaccine, except for the super anti-vaxxers -- you'll never change the mind of conspiracy theorists. They live in a very powerful echo chamber.
Thank you for your generosity.
Seattle Forrest is offline  
Old 12-10-20, 06:03 PM
  #12  
alo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,059
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 528 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 254 Times in 185 Posts
A vaccine trial in Australia has been stopped, and the vaccine will not be used. It is good to see them doing the right thing, based on evidence from trials.

Not all vaccines are the same. Others will be used.
alo is offline  
Old 12-10-20, 07:08 PM
  #13  
wgscott
Occam's Rotor
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,160
Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2366 Post(s)
Liked 2,251 Times in 1,123 Posts
Originally Posted by alo View Post
We are being given a lot of false information. .
By you.
wgscott is offline  
Old 12-10-20, 07:43 PM
  #14  
Hondo Gravel
es ist mir egal
 
Hondo Gravel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Hondo,Texas
Posts: 2,063

Bikes: Too many Motobecanes

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2169 Post(s)
Liked 2,265 Times in 1,462 Posts
If you eat a watermelon seed a watermelon plant will grow out of your bellybutton.
Hondo Gravel is offline  
Likes For Hondo Gravel:
Old 12-10-20, 08:07 PM
  #15  
Russ Roth
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: South Shore of Long Island
Posts: 1,765

Bikes: 2010 Carrera Volans, 2015 C-Dale Trail 2sl, 2017 Raleigh Rush Hour, 2017 Blue Proseccio, 1992 Giant Perigee, 80s Gitane Rallye Tandem

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 641 Post(s)
Liked 498 Times in 378 Posts
I'm not convinced there's been enough long term study to determine the efficacy and safety of the virus in the longer term, there's too much pushing this through and I don't trust that things haven't been swept under the rug in a world where Trump is pushing an agenda on safety organizations and drug companies to create a miracle. Hopefully enough people will get it to make the difference but I'm going to need to hear more long term general public results before I'm willing to get it or give it to my kids.
Russ Roth is offline  
Old 12-10-20, 08:21 PM
  #16  
skookum
cyclotourist
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: calgary, canada
Posts: 1,425
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 427 Post(s)
Liked 190 Times in 118 Posts
Originally Posted by alo View Post
How do you define 90-95% effective?
You can find all this information online if you so desire.
We can work through an example: the Pfizer & BioNTech phase III study. There were 170 COVID-19 cases. Eight of these were in the vaccine group, and 162 in the placebo group. In this study, there were “over 43,000” participants. For this calculation, assume there were exactly 43,000 participants . These people split into two even groups.
  • Attack rate in the vaccinated group (ARV): Eight divided by 21,500 is 0.04%.
  • Attack rate in the non-vaccinated group (ARU): 162 divided by 21,500 is 0.75%.
The reduction from 0.75% to 0.04% is then 95%. This is our central estimate of vaccine efficacy.

Originally Posted by alo View Post
The trials have been done in too little time to know.
To know what?

Most adverse effects show up in the first weeks after vaccination. All of these trials had to wait at least two months after the final dose, before they could apply for approval.
Rare adverse reactions won't show up until hundreds of thousands of people have been vaccinated. So yeah, you have to wait, but you also have to vaccinate a lot of people for those effects to appear.

Originally Posted by alo View Post
Let's say, 100 people get the vaccine, and 100 get a placebo, and the trial lasts for 2 months. In the 2 months, 3 people who had the placebo get the coronavirus. How many of the people who have had the vaccine would need to get the virus for it to be 90-95% effective?
.15
Obviously your numbers are unrealistic.

Originally Posted by alo View Post
Most clinical trials are done over much longer periods of time. Most drugs are tested for years. They have broken their own rules to get this out quickly.
Most vaccine trials take a long time, because it takes a long time to get enough infections in the placebo group. In the midst of a pandemic, it doesn't take so long. They are waiting for 1) enough infections in the placebo group to get a statistically significant result. Obviously there are ethical issues here. The placebo group is being deliberately exposed to a dangerous disease. 2) they have to wait until two months after vaccination for adverse effects to appear. Yes ,this is a short period of time. Yes, this is an emergency.

Originally Posted by alo View Post
The number of people getting infected during these short trials has been too little to be statistically significant.
No.

https://anthonybmasters.medium.com/v...s-131c9da8f766
skookum is offline  
Old 12-10-20, 08:31 PM
  #17  
alo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,059
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 528 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 254 Times in 185 Posts
There have been serious harmful effects that we are not being told about.
alo is offline  
Old 12-10-20, 08:34 PM
  #18  
skookum
cyclotourist
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: calgary, canada
Posts: 1,425
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 427 Post(s)
Liked 190 Times in 118 Posts
Originally Posted by alo View Post
There have been serious harmful effects that we are not being told about.
Evidence?
skookum is offline  
Likes For skookum:
Old 12-10-20, 08:45 PM
  #19  
alo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,059
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 528 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 254 Times in 185 Posts
Originally Posted by skookum View Post
Evidence?
I posted a link to a Youtube video on a previous topic, and it was deleted. If I post it again, I may upset someone. It is sad they don't allow all points of view. The person in the video had been a researcher in these things for decades. He knew what he was talking about, and explained it well. Maybe look at many different sources of information and see what you find.

Or you could talk to the moderators, and ask for permission to post the link again. If you do, let me know what they say.

I think, some things will come out in the future, that people don't know about yet. Or maybe they will be able to suppress all negative information.
alo is offline  
Old 12-10-20, 08:55 PM
  #20  
alo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,059
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 528 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 254 Times in 185 Posts
The aim is to make as much money as possible. If more money can be made by not being completely honest, it is often what they do.
alo is offline  
Old 12-10-20, 09:41 PM
  #21  
Bigbus
Very Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Always on the Run
Posts: 1,211

Bikes: Giant Quasar & Fuji Roubaix

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 412 Post(s)
Liked 339 Times in 241 Posts
Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel View Post
If you eat a watermelon seed a watermelon plant will grow out of your bellybutton.
Only in Texas! (Keep your facts straight)
Bigbus is offline  
Likes For Bigbus:
Old 12-10-20, 09:45 PM
  #22  
Bigbus
Very Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Always on the Run
Posts: 1,211

Bikes: Giant Quasar & Fuji Roubaix

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 412 Post(s)
Liked 339 Times in 241 Posts
Originally Posted by alo View Post
How do you define 90-95% effective?

The trials have been done in too little time to know.

Let's say, 100 people get the vaccine, and 100 get a placebo, and the trial lasts for 2 months. In the 2 months, 3 people who had the placebo get the coronavirus. How many of the people who have had the vaccine would need to get the virus for it to be 90-95% effective?

Most clinical trials are done over much longer periods of time. Most drugs are tested for years. They have broken their own rules to get this out quickly.

The number of people getting infected during these short trials has been too little to be statistically significant.
Not to rain on anyone's parade, but if a vaccine is 90% effective, that only means 10 out of 100 that got it didn't get the benefit of it, not that they got the virus.
Bigbus is offline  
Old 12-10-20, 10:21 PM
  #23  
Seattle Forrest
Senior Member
 
Seattle Forrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 22,129
Mentioned: 78 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15211 Post(s)
Liked 6,395 Times in 3,623 Posts
Originally Posted by alo View Post
There have been serious harmful effects that we are not being told about.
Then how do you know about them?

You seem to have a lot of skepticism about the vaccine, which is generally a healthy thing, but none at all about this being a conspiracy.
Seattle Forrest is offline  
Likes For Seattle Forrest:
Old 12-10-20, 11:19 PM
  #24  
Hondo Gravel
es ist mir egal
 
Hondo Gravel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Hondo,Texas
Posts: 2,063

Bikes: Too many Motobecanes

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2169 Post(s)
Liked 2,265 Times in 1,462 Posts
I will take the vaccine as soon as it is my turn. I’m not afraid to because of all the illegal stuff I have taken in the past and I’m still here. If there is a tracking device after the vaccine alters my DNA you will be disappointed my bike routes don’t change that much and I cruise into town to the local beer cave or grocery store. I can go to google earth and see my garden out in the back so I’m sure the KGB can watch me drink cheap beer as I work on my bikes and listen to AC/DC. Every vaccine has had side effects and some will have a bad reaction that has been true for all vaccines. I have no fear of a covid vaccine. Hopefully it will give me a great buzz for a few hours or days.
Hondo Gravel is offline  
Likes For Hondo Gravel:
Old 12-11-20, 12:25 AM
  #25  
alo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,059
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 528 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 254 Times in 185 Posts
Originally Posted by Bigbus View Post
Not to rain on anyone's parade, but if a vaccine is 90% effective, that only means 10 out of 100 that got it didn't get the benefit of it, not that they got the virus.
What is the benefit of it, other than preventing people from getting the virus?

In trials they compare the number of people who received the placebo and got the virus, with the number of people who received the vaccine and got the virus. It it is 90% effective, the number of people who received the vaccine and got the virus, will only be 10% of the number of people who received the placebo and got the virus. Because these trials are only run for a very short time, only a small number of people who received the placebo got the virus, like 2 or 3 percent. So to be statistically significant, a huge number of people need to be in the trial.

It seems they are rolling this out to the public to soon, effectively testing it on the public.
alo is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.