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Lowering my top tube via changing out bottom headset component

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Lowering my top tube via changing out bottom headset component

Old 02-14-21, 12:10 PM
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StirFry
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Lowering my top tube via changing out bottom headset component

Had a new frame built a while back, and though I love it, it's always bothered me that the top tube isn't parallel with the ground like my previous frame's was. Looking at the headset which is currently installesd, which is a Cane Creek 110 ec34 (1 1/8 threadless), it seems as though that if I were able to swap out the bottom half of the assembly, it should get me very close to where I'm trying to get with my top tube. With all the options out there, I'm turning to the forum to ensure that I get the correct part for my needs. I've seen that I can purchase bottom cups independently, though I would not be opposed to purchasing a whole new headset if I have to. From what I've read, it sounds as though an internal stack assembly is what I am aiming for. Here's a pic of what the bottom of my current headset looks like. If I can rid my bike of as much of the bulbous part as possible, I should be pretty close to golden in my goals for the top tube.


edit: upon further research, is a 34mm head too small to find any internally cupped assemblys? Am i reading this right? ****. What are some other options lowering the the headtube on this thing? I'm wondering if my builder didn't take into account the bottom 12mm stack of the headset that we had transferred from my old bike when he drew it up.


Here's the specs:

Last edited by StirFry; 02-14-21 at 01:44 PM.
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Old 02-14-21, 02:46 PM
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I am wondering why you would replace a 110 headset to minorly change the top tube angle? Also reading what your wrote makes it very much sound like a custom frame which would mean you must have had some conversations with the builder on it and came to a decision why you would want to change that with a headset now is a bit off.

What exactly is the issue (and if you say aesthetics I will probably lose my ever-loving mind)? I can't imagine a headset is going to do much even if one were slightly smaller or you figure a way to go internal.
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Old 02-14-21, 03:30 PM
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You’re boned. You’re totally boned. Sell that garbage sloping top tube bike quick and get a Kilo WT. Chris King Headsets are garbage anyways. You won’t miss it for a minute. You’re welcome! Bye! Love you lots! Kisses!
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Old 02-14-21, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
I am wondering why you would replace a 110 headset to minorly change the top tube angle? Also reading what your wrote makes it very much sound like a custom frame which would mean you must have had some conversations with the builder on it and came to a decision why you would want to change that with a headset now is a bit off.

What exactly is the issue (and if you say aesthetics I will probably lose my ever-loving mind)? I can't imagine a headset is going to do much even if one were slightly smaller or you figure a way to go internal.

It is mainly aesthetics lol. One of my main requests when we were discussing the build initially was my desire to have a parallel TT, which it doesn't have. What can I say, I'm a detail oriented person and after spending this much money and time trying to get this built, it's a bit annoying to say the least as I intend to have this bike for a very long time and it is somewhat a personal purchase for me. It also seems that it is off by almost exactly the amount of thickness of my headset which makes me wonder if he forgot to plan around it. Now this brings me to wondering whether or not my geo is off due to this half inch of difference as well. If that's just the way had to have worked that's fine, but it's still annoying at the end of the day, as I could have saved myself a couple racks and kept my original bike that I was perfectly happy with in the looks department. Sure my new one rides marginally better, but to drop the bread that I did it's kind of wack that it's not really something that I'm especially fond of looking at.
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Old 02-14-21, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by hsuBM View Post
You’re boned. You’re totally boned. Sell that garbage sloping top tube bike quick and get a Kilo WT. Chris King Headsets are garbage anyways. You won’t miss it for a minute. You’re welcome! Bye! Love you lots! Kisses!

"You're a real asset to the board"

-No one ever
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Old 02-14-21, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by StirFry View Post
"You're a real asset to the board"

-No one ever
what the heck do you want?

There is no aesthetic solution. Triathlon 650c front wheel & tire? Bye bye geometry.

CK or PW $1,600 custom internal bottom headset with teensy tiny lil 0.0625” bearings plus a custom 1” threadless fork from either the same untrustworthy “frame builder” or someone reputable? Again, bye bye geo.

the beginner with a torch or old guy who hates new kids took your money and gave you whatever he felt like.

Go to Hot Topic (pretty sure they’re still open in many cities) buy a bunch of stickers with which to cover up your top tube.

Maybe just paint it black. Or use mailbox letters to spell out “is a jerk” after the builder’s name on the downtube.
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Old 02-14-21, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by hsuBM View Post
what the heck do you want?

There is no aesthetic solution. Triathlon 650c front wheel & tire? Bye bye geometry.

CK or PW $1,600 custom internal bottom headset with teensy tiny lil 0.0625” bearings plus a custom 1” threadless fork from either the same untrustworthy “frame builder” or someone reputable? Again, bye bye geo.

the beginner with a torch or old guy who hates new kids took your money and gave you whatever he felt like.

Go to Hot Topic (pretty sure they’re still open in many cities) buy a bunch of stickers with which to cover up your top tube.

Maybe just paint it black. Or use mailbox letters to spell out “is a jerk” after the builder’s name on the downtube.

This one was a lot better than your first reply, especially the last line
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Old 02-14-21, 04:23 PM
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Old 02-14-21, 05:20 PM
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You're never going to be able to offset that angle without physically modifying the frame. An intergrated headset is out of the question as your headtube would have to be machined internally to act as the cup as bearing fits directly inside the head tube. A zero stack headset could help but would only offset the top tube by a few mm. You could also jam a larger tire in the rear to bump the angle up a little bit but that's also a change of a few mm. If it bothers you that much, a 650c fork with accompanying wheel would set the top tube straight, but also lower your bottom bracket height and increasing pedal strike.
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Old 02-14-21, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by acoustophile View Post
You're never going to be able to offset that angle without physically modifying the frame. An intergrated headset is out of the question as your headtube would have to be machined internally to act as the cup as bearing fits directly inside the head tube. A zero stack headset could help but would only offset the top tube by a few mm. You could also jam a larger tire in the rear to bump the angle up a little bit but that's also a change of a few mm. If it bothers you that much, a 650c fork with accompanying wheel would set the top tube straight, but also lower your bottom bracket height and increasing pedal strike.
Great post, thanks for the info
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Old 02-14-21, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by StirFry View Post
It is mainly aesthetics lol. One of my main requests when we were discussing the build initially was my desire to have a parallel TT, which it doesn't have. What can I say, I'm a detail oriented person and after spending this much money and time trying to get this built, it's a bit annoying to say the least as I intend to have this bike for a very long time and it is somewhat a personal purchase for me. It also seems that it is off by almost exactly the amount of thickness of my headset which makes me wonder if he forgot to plan around it. Now this brings me to wondering whether or not my geo is off due to this half inch of difference as well. If that's just the way had to have worked that's fine, but it's still annoying at the end of the day, as I could have saved myself a couple racks and kept my original bike that I was perfectly happy with in the looks department. Sure my new one rides marginally better, but to drop the bread that I did it's kind of wack that it's not really something that I'm especially fond of looking at.
If a custom builder didn't build it right reach out to the builder and see if they can get it fixed or have any ideas.

Otherwise you are SOL.
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Old 02-14-21, 07:57 PM
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Do you have any pics to post? I'm curious to see how "off" it is.......
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Old 02-15-21, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Speedway2 View Post
Do you have any pics to post? I'm curious to see how "off" it is.......
What I ordered






...vs what I got





vs my old bike and what I was aiming for, as reference





Yes, I know I'm splitting hairs and I'm still happy with my new frame. If you read my original post, I thought I was going to be able to get away with just swapping out a bottom bearing cup to get exactly what I was looking for as a twenty or thirty dollar solution until I realized that it wasn't going to be feasible.
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Old 02-15-21, 08:45 AM
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Your bike looks great! Yes, slight angle but doesn't look out of place IMO but I understand where you're coming from.
Perhaps, a "smaller" front / larger rear tire might level the bike out.....you know....for that '70's muscle car look
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Old 02-15-21, 09:01 AM
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That’s a very well appointed single speed bike.

The seat end of the tt is lower than the steerer end of the tt by very nearly the diameter of the tt.

Roughly an inch. 25.4mm

More than a headset cup.

Maybe put those two pics in a post in the Framebuilders sub in hopes of one of the more experienced saying I’m wrong? Without going into autocad and sketching this up to check those numbers for fun, it looks like a 75* 49cm st w/ 5.8cm of bb drop probably would’ve had to’ve either had the tt & dt intersecting or had a conversation-worthy slope put into the tt. If it were an important point to you, he’d have had to have said something to you about it before even chalking lines onto tubes.

Given the amount of standover and bb height you specified, I’d be surprised if the builder hadn’t pushed you to consider smaller rims- either 650b or 26”.

For your next build, were I you, I’d definitely be shopping 650b rims and tires to build a frame around if a non-intersecting tt+dt is as aesthetically important as a level tt, or be ready to be sure that the builder is comfortable with intersecting those tubes. But I’d also be having front-exiting dropouts on the rear, fender clearance and mounts front & back, bottle cage bosses on the the dt, and some somewhat interesting paint.
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Old 02-15-21, 11:29 AM
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Now that I see the bike, thats a really small offset. A combination of a zerostack headset and a fork with a smaller crown to axel measurement would definitely do the trick with the only caveat being slightly smaller tire clearance.
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Old 02-15-21, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by acoustophile View Post
Now that I see the bike, thats a really small offset. A combination of a zerostack headset and a fork with a smaller crown to axel measurement would definitely do the trick with the only caveat being slightly smaller tire clearance.
That's what I was thinking, but I think I'm stuck with the headset that I have. I emailed him and asked if he might know any tricks. When he gets back to me, I may inquire about getting a new fork made. That pic I posted kind of exaggerates the offset to i think. Like I mentioned, I really do like the bike and I'm splitting hairs, but I also bought it as something to have for a few decades, so it would be nice to get it exactly where I want it if at all possible.

Here's how it currently sits. It's weird because depending on how I'm looking at it can really change my perspective of the amount of angle it has.

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Old 02-15-21, 07:05 PM
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StirFry
This is the bike overlaid with the geo sheet fairly close but very minorly off on the top tube but not so terrible I would care to this level. I was expecting things to be way off or at least more off than this.
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Old 02-15-21, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
StirFry
This is the bike overlaid with the geo sheet fairly close but very minorly off on the top tube but not so terrible I would care to this level. I was expecting things to be way off or at least more off than this.

This is pretty cool! Thanks. I agree, and even as anal as I am, it's not anything that I will be losing sleep over. If my builder gets back to me with any solutions, I'll probably still take him up on any ideas he has though
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Old 02-16-21, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
StirFry
This is the bike overlaid with the geo sheet fairly close but very minorly off on the top tube but not so terrible I would care to this level. I was expecting things to be way off or at least more off than this.
ha, the builder mixed up c-c & c-t. Built a 49cm c-t st frame, but built To The Numbers Provided rather than exercising judgement as a Frame Builder.

Ya get what ya pay for.

Why didn’t you get Waterford or some other reputable builder to build it?
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Old 02-16-21, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by hsuBM View Post
ha, the builder mixed up c-c & c-t. Built a 49cm c-t st frame, but built To The Numbers Provided rather than exercising judgement as a Frame Builder.

Ya get what ya pay for.

Why didn’t you get Waterford or some other reputable builder to build it?

See post #5

I do appreciate your posts though, it's nice seeing that edgelording is still a thing on messageboards. You're obviously not young either, so those are some bonus points right there too
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Old 02-16-21, 06:15 PM
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I don’t see how that’s edgelording, but what ever tuna’s your sandwich.
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Old 02-16-21, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by StirFry View Post
See post #5

I do appreciate your posts though, it's nice seeing that edgelording is still a thing on messageboards. You're obviously not young either, so those are some bonus points right there too
I had to look at edgelording and though it was a BDSM thing (which technically makes me an edge lord now). I didn't think hsuBM even if BM could stand for Humbolt state university bowel movement.

He did state the stuff about the builder of the frame mixing up center to center and center to top causing the minor frame kerfuffle and then suggesting going with Waterford a well known and respected titan in the custom frame scene (partially because they were started out of the ashes of Schwinn's Paramount line by Richard Schwinn and also because they just do really excellent work) I don't see how that is so controversial or taboo or anything like that. Nothing seemed wild or exaggerated except maybe the first post they made but that was more sarcasm than anything else and the internet is at least 40% sarcasm and 50% porn and 10% buying crap on Billionaire Jeff Bezos' Amazon.
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Old 02-16-21, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by hsuBM View Post
ha, the builder mixed up c-c & c-t. Built a 49cm c-t st frame, but built To The Numbers Provided rather than exercising judgement as a Frame Builder.

Ya get what ya pay for.

Why didn’t you get Waterford or some other reputable builder to build it?
Idk why posts like this are relevant. The frame is obviously already built so rubbing in how it's a little bit off is pointless and mean. Obviously he knows it's off and is asking advice on what his options are. This is grade school: if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. Yeesh these kind of posts add literally nothing to the topic except to antagonize. What's the point?
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Old 02-17-21, 09:16 AM
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I just want to say that this is the most interesting BF thread I've read in the last five years. Kudos to all contributors. To @StirFry - I really like both of your bikes. Sorry that the top tube angle bothers you so much. It's a good looking bike, and I'd bet that it rides just as you had imagined that it would.

Anyway, terrific discussion. I even learned what "edgelording" is, although I'm unsure where I can ever use that nugget. Carry on...
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