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A cyclist passed me while I was turning L at intersection.

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A cyclist passed me while I was turning L at intersection.

Old 04-26-21, 10:27 PM
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Nyah
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A cyclist passed me while I was turning L at intersection.

Please read this scenario and tell me what you think.


I was waiting for the light to change, in the middle lane of three. Lane on the left is L-turn only, my lane is both L-turn and straight, one on right is R-turn only. I'm at the stop line and the road at this point is at the bottom of a hill. Since my bicycle can't trigger the sensor in the road to change the signal, I had been waiting for cars to arrive and do it for me.


After cars do arrive, the signal changes. I'm starting off and preparing to make the L-turn. In my rear-view I can see a cyclist not far back (a car-length or so), obviously in a larger gear than one could start off on a level grade (he's standing, stomping at low cadence). He's trying to pass on my left, while I'm trying to turn left. I hold off on my speed because I don't want to be run into by him. He passes me on the left and goes straight. I then make haste to turn left and get out of the intersection.


Did the other guy have the right to pass me on my left in this situation?

Last edited by Nyah; 04-26-21 at 10:50 PM.
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Old 04-26-21, 10:47 PM
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What Signal did you use to let him know that you wanted to Turn Left?
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Old 04-26-21, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by 10 Wheels View Post
What Signal did you use to let him know that you wanted to Turn Left?
None.

Did the other guy have the right to pass me on my left in this situation?

Last edited by Nyah; 04-26-21 at 11:00 PM.
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Old 04-26-21, 11:14 PM
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I believe that ‘Effective Cycling’ would dictate that you should have been maybe further left in that lane signalling your intention to turn left while allowing any other traffic to proceed to your right in this turning option lane? Being in the middle probably telegraphed that you were going straight to anyone behind you in this particular case and lane situation. Just speculating, but in this case being in the middle wasn’t left enough to signal your intention and the other cyclist assumed he made a clean pass and didn’t try to sneak past on your right anticipating you would go straight and move to the right side of the road once you cleared the intersection.

“When approaching an intersection, position yourself with respect to your destination direction—on the right near the curb if you want to turn right, on the left near the center line if you want to turn left, and between those positions if you want to go straight.” John Forester, ‘Effective Cycling’, pp.246, 1993
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Old 04-26-21, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by billridesbikes View Post
I believe that ‘Effective Cycling’ would dictate that you should have been maybe further left in that lane signalling your intention to turn left while allowing any other traffic to proceed to your right in this turning option lane? Being in the middle probably telegraphed that you were going straight to anyone behind you in this particular case and lane situation. Just speculating, but in this case being in the middle wasn’t left enough to signal your intention and the other cyclist assumed he made a clean pass and didn’t try to sneak past on your right anticipating you would go straight and move to the right side of the road once you cleared the intersection.

“When approaching an intersection, position yourself with respect to your destination direction—on the right near the curb if you want to turn right, on the left near the center line if you want to turn left, and between those positions if you want to go straight.” John Forester, ‘Effective Cycling’, pp.246, 1993
My problem with taking the lane, here, is that I needed a big enough vehicle pulling up to the stop line, in order to trigger the sensor of the traffic light. Or are these sensors usually farther back than one bicycle length, in which case the car behind me would still trigger the sensor? I wonder.
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Old 04-26-21, 11:50 PM
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I pass cyclists all the time in a single lane. Not something I would do in a car but a single lane can accommodate multiple cyclists. As far as signalling, cyclists should follow the same rules as vehicles.
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Old 04-27-21, 01:18 AM
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Positioning yourself to let others know where you intend to go is the correct thing to do. There are usually two to three sets of buried wires in the road as you approach the intersection. Some are sensitive enough to detect a bicycle. When there is automotive traffic this is not a problem. When they will not detect your bicycle and there is no traffic, then making sure it is clear and proceeding through the intersection is something I would do. Almost all of them will not detect you when you are in the center of the lane. The wires are usually positioned more to the left and right side of the lane. If they lay out the detection wires more like a figure eight, they are more likely to detect a bicycle rider. Although bicyclists are not required to give a continuous hand signal. You should be courteous and signal as you approach a turn.
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Old 04-27-21, 02:50 AM
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Originally Posted by 10 Wheels View Post
What Signal did you use to let him know that you wanted to Turn Left?
Vital question.



Tricky situation, in a "car" traffic lane sufficiently wide for a car where it's equally uncertain which side an overtaking cyclist might take if attempting to pass.

IMO:

1. As the turning vehicle, signaling is vital, so that everyone knows what a person intends. As is staying in the left ~third of the lane if it's a mixed-use lane (ie, L turn as well as Straight). Particularly in a mixed-direction lane as described. Else, it's entirely likely, perhaps probable, an overtaking cyclist would attempt a pass based on mere speed alone, assuming that the stopped-but-turning cyclist was intending to go straight.

2. As the approaching cyclist, it's vital to not be a schmuck and assume things. If the overtaking cyclist had simply been patient and treated those in front of him(?) as cars, then a pass attempt wouldn't have been made and everyone would have avoided the risky maneuver. But then, for far too many these days, patience isn't taken to be virtuous anymore. Get "mine" while the gettin's good seems to be the mantra for many cyclists, electric skateboarders, electric scooter riders, etc, from what I've seen in the past ~5yrs or so.

Sounds like dual fault, in the scenario described. Failure to signal, hence asking for trouble from a zealous overtaking occupant of the lane; and failure to be patient and wait until leading vehicles had cleared and it was safe.
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Old 04-27-21, 04:48 AM
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If I were in your position I would have signaled my turn, but I know that's not always an option in every situation on a bike. However, if I were the guy in the rear I would NOT have passed on the left while in the intersection, I would have anticipated you taking a left turn. I would have waited until clear of the intersection, then pass.
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Old 04-27-21, 06:34 AM
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Yes, be in the left tire track of the middle lane. For road sensors and following cars, I'll move up as far as practical, a bit past any white stopping line, for example. And if I can see a sensor loop cut into the road, I sometimes motion the car to creep forward and point down to the sensor. (The drivers figure out what I want about half the time...)

A "left turn" arm signal makes it clear that I'm not just hogging the road.
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Old 04-27-21, 07:23 AM
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We're not supposed to pass in an intersection, except for separate lanes of course. Debatable whether it applies asan " intersection" where there isn't through cross traffic.
Bad move on his part, but within his rights. If we leave room enough for a pass on the left, we take the blame when someone passes. Even if we signal left, we both get some blame.
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Old 04-27-21, 08:22 AM
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If I'm in the passing cyclist position, I might pass you under those circumstances as being in the middle lane might give me the impression you were going straight, and as long as I didn't think either of us were screening the view of traffic from the other, I don't see that as an inherently dangerous pass. I'd have to see the intersection before I definitively answer that however.

I always signal left turns to avoid such miscommunication.
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Old 04-27-21, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Nyah View Post
None.

Did the other guy have the right to pass me on my left in this situation?
Yup.
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Old 04-27-21, 08:46 AM
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Here in Jax, nearly all stop lights have an imprint that is easily seen where the sensors for the light are; I never have a problem actuating them, and I always sit over top the center wire (dead center of the lane). We don't have them in the bike lanes as shown here, so I always take the lane at lights.


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Old 04-27-21, 09:43 AM
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All of us have done stupid at various times. What do you want to do about this?

If you were in the lane marked as turn or straight the other cyclist should not have passed you on the left in the same lane IMO.

Unless you want to make a campaign to educate others in your area you can only just blow it off and get over it. Realize that you have to watch for stupid. And if you have an accident because of the stupid of others, then you bring out the rules and laws to prove your case.
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Old 04-27-21, 09:48 AM
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I think the other cyclist was an idiot. There was no downside there to zipping by on the right. You obviously weren't going right and if you were also going straight, then close to FRAP in the lane would be the proper place to be.
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Old 04-27-21, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Rick View Post
There are usually two to three sets of buried wires in the road as you approach the intersection. Some are sensitive enough to detect a bicycle.
I have yet to come across sensors that are sensitive enough to detect my bicycle. It may be largely due to the fact that my bicycle doesn't have much magnetic material in it.
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Old 04-27-21, 11:23 AM
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None of the sensors work for bikes in our area.
We Stop Look if Clear we Go.
Even The Police know that and have NOT given us any problem.
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Old 04-27-21, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Nyah View Post
None.

Did the other guy have the right to pass me on my left in this situation?
I don't think it's clear cut. Those kinds of intersections are very tricky. On the one hand, passing on the left of the slower vehicle is the convention. On the other hand, you might have been turning left. On the other hand, you weren't signalling a left turn (correct?).

Often in those kinds of tricky intersections I'll just ride in the ped crosswalks (and have to wait through 2 crosswalk lights).
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Old 04-27-21, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by work4bike View Post
I always sit over top the center wire (dead center of the lane).
Directly over the center if it's a double loop, or over one side if it's single loop. Look for the cuts, that's where the induction wires are. Once I learned that, most of the non-triggering lights suddenly started working for me.

Btw someone mentioned not being magnetic, but we don't have to be. Aluminum is fine for triggering induction loop sensors.
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Old 04-27-21, 01:43 PM
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I have yet to come across sensors that are sensitive enough to detect my bicycle. It may be largely due to the fact that my bicycle doesn't have much magnetic material in it.
I believe I read in Effective Cycling that inductive wires are just upside down mine detectors. If you know were they are, which has been stated, you may be able to position yourself so you are detected. Many of them were I travel don't have the gain turned up enough to detect me. There is one in particular on US 62 were I make a left turn. I go up the center of the turn lane and treat it as a stop sign. Most traffic control devices use the inductive wire loop, but there is also inferred microwave and video sensors.
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Old 04-27-21, 06:58 PM
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It would be more important to me as to which lane the cyclist passing you on the stayed in. Most intersections like this one taking a left turn would take you onto a road with 2 lanes so if he stayed in his and you in yours there would be no problem . If the 2 lanes then merged into a single you would handle it just like if you were in a car. IMO.
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Old 04-28-21, 07:01 AM
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Only slightly related, but what do you all do for signaling when stopped at an intersection where you will be turning? Do you stand there with your arm out as you wait for the light to change, or only signal when it turns green and you're about to go, or...? (Luckily, it is something I've very rarely come across, and usually when it has it's obvious I'm in a left-turn lane so my intention is pretty clear, but I feel sort of silly hanging out there with my arm out...)
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Old 04-28-21, 07:04 AM
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Left or Right Arm Out.
Run the Light if there is No Traffic.
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Old 04-28-21, 07:41 AM
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You want to ride in S E Asia. I would go to the middle of the road before turning left. They always go to the wrong side of the road, and overtake on the left. I have learnt to hold my left arm out. Then they get it.

I know someone involved in an accident as a result of being overtaken on the left while turning left.
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