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74 Grand Record build and comparison to 74 Grand Jubilee

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74 Grand Record build and comparison to 74 Grand Jubilee

Old 06-19-21, 04:40 PM
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75lechamp 
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74 Grand Record build and comparison to 74 Grand Jubilee

Hey folks, I am starting a build on a '74 Grand Record, in the black/red combination, which is one of my holy grail bikes (along with the orange Team Champion, lilac Le Champion, and red/black Grand Jubile, which I have already). I bought this from the original owner, who kept it remarkably well, and it is for the most part original, with the 3 pin TA crank, Atom 400 pedals, Stronglight competition headset, Brooks Pro with plain alloy tube post, Phillipe bars and stem, NR derailleurs, and the original Normandy Luxe Comp hubs and generic Super Champion tubulars with the dimpled sidewalls....

In the process of rebuilding, I see I have the unique opportunity to do a compare against my '74 Grand Jubile, both are the same frame size 21". This is an early '74 Grand Record, so has the 3 main tubes in 531 (not the seatstays or chain stays). The fork is 531, which I had heard folks say is the only difference between the two frames. In other words, the theory is that the Grand Jubile from that period is but a rebadged Grand Record, with a non-531 fork.

In comparing the two, I was prepared to agree with this theory. On closer examination, however, I noticed the head tube for the GJ was somewhat shorter than that of the GR, despite the seat tube length being identical. I then measured the top tubes on each - the GR was about 21 3/4" C-C, while the GJ was about 22 1/16". The longer tube on the GJ then would account for the shorter head tube, and thus probably has a more relaxed geometry and longer wheelbase. So, it does appear that each frame is actually unique to the model.

For reference:

GR serial number: 2872104
GJ serial number: 2512275

Will keep posting as I proceed...

Andy



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Old 06-19-21, 05:46 PM
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I have to agree that the black and red grand records are on my grail list.
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Old 06-19-21, 05:48 PM
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Looks like a fantastic paint job on your GR. Show me a Peugeot that looks like that.

I've only had one Jubilé, a '79/'80 Vitus 172 frameset. Super nice bike. The chainstays were quite a bit longer than my '75 GR of basically the same size.
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Old 06-19-21, 07:50 PM
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Very pretty Motobecane Grand Record. I have a 1973 Motobecane Grand Record (also 531 double butted main triangle and fork). The paint is crackled, but it is a fine machine. These bikes have clearance for fairly fat tires. I'm running 700 x 35c on mine with plenty of clearance.

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Old 06-19-21, 08:46 PM
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Those black/red/gold trim Grand Records are gorgeous!
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Old 06-19-21, 09:43 PM
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-----

thanks so much for creating this thread

a most excellent idea

shall look forward to following along

have not previously heard tell of an Atom model 400 pedal

can you post an image of one, if convenient?


-----
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Old 06-20-21, 07:23 AM
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Very interesting, and beautiful bikes. Black and red Motobecanes are such a classic bike.

here’s mine… 73 Le Champion.

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Old 06-20-21, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Narhay View Post
I have to agree that the black and red grand records are on my grail list.
the black and red frames are a terrific color pair.

I have a Silver/Red example. Bought cheap as had a stuck stem, hacked off to harvest the headset! Fortunately 5 minutes of effort to remove, the project has stalled after that.

maybe that frame will get 650b wheels and tires?
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Old 06-20-21, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Flatforkcrown View Post
Very interesting, and beautiful bikes. Black and red Motobecanes are such a classic bike.

here’s mine… 73 Le Champion.

high flange hubs are a must with these, bravo
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Old 06-25-21, 07:41 AM
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Updates

Getting things back together now... I decided to go with a nice set of Campy brakes, will keep the original Weinmanns in reserve, along with the 3 pin TA, which is really nice, but I will put on a Campy NR....






Original Normandy Luxe Comps were in good shape, minimal wear on the cones...

Original MM Atom skewers



Original Super Champ rims, not marked as any model. They have the textured sidewalls, and are kinda heavy, I think even more than the Arc en Ciels...


Great Phiippe stem and bars, original

'74 NR, original
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Old 06-25-21, 01:00 PM
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Seeing those calipers reach 700c rims sort of threw me. I always thought the GR came with 27" wheels until later in the '70s. But now I look at the catalog pages, and it shows the '74 and '75 models with 700c rims.

If I used those calipers on my GR, they would not reach. I always thought mine was a '75. Maybe this confirms it's a '76. So confusing!

https://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/Motobecane/
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Old 06-25-21, 01:48 PM
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I have owned both a Grand Record and a Grand Jubilee. The Grand Record was a wonderful handling bicycle and the Grand Jubilee was just about as good. Put another way, I would jump at the chance to get either one again for a decent price. This is how I had my Grand Jubilee set up when I was last riding it...


And this is what it looked like when I sold it...
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Old 06-25-21, 03:02 PM
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For sure, short reach Campys would not work on this one. I've got standard reach, and they work, but pretty close to the limit! My philosophy on this one is to consider what I would do if I had this bike in the late 70s and what I would upgrade, and that would include upgrades to Campy crank and brakes - it is called Grand "Record" for a reason after all....
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Old 06-25-21, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by 75lechamp View Post
For sure, short reach Campys would not work on this one. I've got standard reach, and they work, but pretty close to the limit!
Mine is a 700c conversion, and I needed a long reach brake caliper on the rear. Unless I used to drop bolt, a standard reach brake wouldn't work.

It is called Grand "Record" for a reason after all.
Absolutely. When I acquired mine, it had Suntour Cyclone on it. Had to change over to Nuovo Record rapidamente.
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Old 06-25-21, 03:37 PM
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I have a "same" Black/Red GR with same lugs and round headbadge, but mine (which I thought of as either '74 or '75) has the "Full DB 531 throughout" decal, not a "3-mains only" decal.
So never having owned a Grand Jubilee, did these ever come with Huret DOs (to match the RD)?
Or did Lawee always spec a Huret RD that works with Campy DOs? (I understand there is such a version, no?)
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Old 06-25-21, 04:04 PM
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I think a lot of the early Jubiles were made with parts on hand, mostly a mix of Grand Record and Grand Touring.
GJ Serial #1861369
Chrome narrow point crown, script instead of block font on downtube, sticker head badge, campy dropouts




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Old 06-25-21, 05:18 PM
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Atom 700

Apologies, I misstated this. I had thought these were the Atom 440s, but rather they are the Atom 700. I think these are really cool pedals, seem to have held up pretty well and have the snazzy red end caps...



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Old 06-25-21, 05:56 PM
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My Grand Record was fitted with Shimano Dura Ace brakes and they worked just great. Was Dura Ace original? I am not sure and, sadly, this is the only picture that I have of that wonderful old bike...
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Old 06-25-21, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by 75lechamp View Post
Apologies, I misstated this. I had thought these were the Atom 440s, but rather they are the Atom 700. I think these are really cool pedals, seem to have held up pretty well and have the snazzy red end caps...

I have a set of these. Agreed that the cap looks neat but I have found them to be a pain to adjust. Plus they don’t have a tab which makes them a bit harder to kick over if using toe clips and straps. Otherwise they’re solid pedals.
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Old 06-26-21, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by randyjawa View Post
My Grand Record was fitted with Shimano Dura Ace brakes and they worked just great. Was Dura Ace original? I am not sure and, sadly, this is the only picture that I have of that wonderful old bike...
Beautiful color. I haven't seen this color before on a Moto GR. I'd be surprised if the dura ace brakes were original to the bike. I've seen vintage Motobecanes with shimano running gear but they were later than this bike. This is a really interesting Motobecane Grand Record. Thanks for posting the picture.
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Old 06-26-21, 11:28 AM
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True, that does not track to any of the USA-spec GRs I ever saw, and judging from what I can see of the headbadge and one of the seat tube decals it could be an earlier frame (like 1972-ish) which I think predates that DA decal. Were the hubs DA black, laced to Weinmann concave rims?
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Old 06-26-21, 01:13 PM
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I bought a GR frame last year, it has the black/red paint and I think it's about a 74. I also have a 75 Jubile and a 72 Le Champ. All of these make pretty nice racing-style bikes, or equally nice touring/city riders.
My GR has long brake reach and generous tire clearance in the front, and much less in the rear, which seems kind of weird and limits tire size. But it's so pretty that who cares. I plan to put on a set of 590x40 wheels, rack, and fenders.
The GJ will just barely take 650Bx42 tires and fenders, I rode it that way for a couple years but if I inflated the tires too much they'd rub the stays. 38mm tires would probably work fine.
The GJ & GR (mid-70's) frames show much nicer workmanship than the LC (early 70's) frame, even though the LC is supposedly higher-end. The LC has the most clearance of the 3 frames, ample space for 650Bx42 wheels + fenders. It also has the most laid-back geometry, and IMO is the best-suited for a classic randonneur-style build. The later LC's were totally different.
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Old 06-29-21, 05:37 PM
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Almost done...

Nearing completion on the GR....


Swapped out the 3 pin original TA for a '73 dated Campy, with black and red Rino rings for the bling factor....

Swapped out the Weinmanns for a nearly pristine set of NR standard reach. They do fit the setups


Original Super Champion tubulars, original Normandy Luxe Comp big flange hubs, and as far as I can tell, original spokes (Robergel maybe?)


Almost there.....
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Old 06-30-21, 11:44 AM
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Don't know how the Rino rings will wear but they do earn some black/red style points! Too bad your Normandy Luxe hubs aren't the ones with red seals, you'd add a few more points (but the gold foil label hubs may be a tick higher in grade, dunno, they certainly are nice spinners so keep them clean and lubed: you cannot replace the races in these). My red/black GR came with the "OEM" Nitto Pearl stem which along with the Brooks saddle, Campy gear and Weinmann brakes are the non-French components but that's a really nice JP stem, IMO.
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Old 06-30-21, 01:07 PM
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Oh, yes, the black and red Motobecanes!!!

Mom's Grand Jubilee, Vitus. Seat is low for my niece (at the time).



I do have a Grand Touring Mixte (I think). It has a similar shape, but far less refined construction.
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