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How many group rides per week

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How many group rides per week

Old 01-17-22, 06:24 AM
  #51  
rubiksoval
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
How many group rides per week do you guys think is too many, in terms of training. I do like 4-5 (drop rides) and think that I might be better served doing more base work by myself, but that's no fun.
When I first started riding I would do 2-3 a week, and up to 4 in the summer months. There was just so much to try and take it all the time.

Once I had been at it a few years, I cut that down to 1-2 race-like rides because there was just so much coasting/soft-pedaling in most rides I didn't feel like it was an efficient use of training time.

Now I might get in 1-2 group rides a month because it's just harder to carve out the significantly longer time block needed for a group ride.
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Old 01-17-22, 06:30 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Before heading out for a group ride, consider your TSB and how it'll be affected by the additional TSS from the ride. Recovery is essential, and you wouldn't want your ATL to shoot too far beyond your CTL and risk overtraining/injury, now would you?
However, when examining the potential for going super -TSB post-ride, it's useful to consider FTP and the advertised w/kg of the ride and how terrain may play into your PD curve. Manipulating CRR and CdA through equipment choices and/or adjusting pack position can allow for sufficiently less FRC-type efforts, just as staying OTB could provide a bit more stimulus if needed. Ultimately, if your plan on TP calls for Z2 but your IF is 1.1 with an NP-buster type ride, you've probably overdone it.
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Old 01-17-22, 07:36 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
However, when examining the potential for going super -TSB post-ride, it's useful to consider FTP and the advertised w/kg of the ride and how terrain may play into your PD curve. Manipulating CRR and CdA through equipment choices and/or adjusting pack position can allow for sufficiently less FRC-type efforts, just as staying OTB could provide a bit more stimulus if needed. Ultimately, if your plan on TP calls for Z2 but your IF is 1.1 with an NP-buster type ride, you've probably overdone it.
This post should come with a glossary
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Old 01-17-22, 07:38 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
ive been going to crit race clinics the past 2 weeks, went today and got destroyed again but I'm blaming my legs for being tired. Did 345 miles this week which is a ton for me. Still a long ways away from keeping up with the A riders.
See, there's this thing called a "recovery day."
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Old 01-17-22, 07:59 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
See, there's this thing called a "recovery day."
I tried to tell him on the first page, but pearls before swine...
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Old 01-17-22, 08:14 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
You've never had someone pull a Cat 6 on you? Tell me you didn't slide the lever forward and rise on the saddle just a little.
Oh, sure...I droped the hamer and dialed it up to 400w.
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Old 01-17-22, 08:41 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
Larry, a group ride is not a race, no matter how fast they're going. And you can't seriously be talking about Cat 6 racing...?
What, you've never seen Cat 6 racers in a paceline?


Or is that 6 Cats in a paceline? I get confused.
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Old 01-17-22, 10:45 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
You've never had someone pull a Cat 6 on you? Tell me you didn't slide the lever forward and rise on the saddle just a little.
What, and drop into the little ring?
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Old 01-17-22, 11:46 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
How many group rides per week do you guys think is too many, in terms of training. I do like 4-5 (drop rides) and think that I might be better served doing more base work by myself, but that's no fun.
When I started training for racing, I did my coaches’ Sunday group ride in NorCal. That started at Canada /92 and went to the coast and back. He would be in a van following us with support and coaching. I avoided the other group rides per coach’s request - too dangerous versus the benefit.

Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
I want to win spectrum, don't really want to race yet because there are tons of strong but inexperienced cat 5s and 6s out here, the practice crit was sketchy.
Spectrum is a 40 mile 2400 feet of climbing unstructured ride that picks up riders as it continues along its route. There are sprint points but there is no “winning” Spectrum. Beginner racers always think everyone else is a sketchy rider or that fields are sketchy. It may in fact be true but the person making the observation is the one that is sketchy and lacks experience to know what is really sketchy.

Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
By cat 6 I meant there were lots of strong people where this was their first race, so not even cat 5s. I don't want to ride in the 4/5 field when I could just ride with the cat 1s in the local group rides. Winning sprint points on said rides would require at least a cat 2 level of fitness though
Why would Cat 1s want to ride with you? It is a fair question not trying to insult you. I want to ride with racers who have similar goals, skills and experience - no beginners. You have to ride / race with the beginners.

Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
Ooh I know, I'm not saying I'm any better or suggesting that I'm close to winning spectrum. I just don't want to race in cat 4/5 right now because I really don't want to crash. I can learn tactics and skills on the group rides. Need to wheelsuck harder.
I think spectrum is 60 miles
See comment above on Spectrum. If you race, you must start in the Cat 5 field. I get that you do not want to crash but there is no alternative. And the real races are different from Early Bird activity. There are a numerous, excellent cat 5 racers in actual cat 5 races that have excellent pack skills. Ride with those guys if you can at the front and or breakaway and drop the pack. And if you think you are an A caliber rider, dropping a Cat 5 field should be easy for you.

Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
ive been going to crit race clinics the past 2 weeks, went today and got destroyed again but I'm blaming my legs for being tired. Did 345 miles this week which is a ton for me. Still a long ways away from keeping up with the A riders.
“A” riders are born and not made. There is only so much one can improve through training. IMO, success on the bike in competition is about finding ones niche and entering those events whether races or other types of rides where one has a competitive advantage.
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Old 01-17-22, 11:52 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
What, and drop into the little ring?
No, I'm a rightie.
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Old 01-17-22, 02:59 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
When I started training for racing, I did my coaches’ Sunday group ride in NorCal. That started at Canada /92 and went to the coast and back. He would be in a van following us with support and coaching. I avoided the other group rides per coach’s request - too dangerous versus the benefit.



Spectrum is a 40 mile 2400 feet of climbing unstructured ride that picks up riders as it continues along its route. There are sprint points but there is no “winning” Spectrum. Beginner racers always think everyone else is a sketchy rider or that fields are sketchy. It may in fact be true but the person making the observation is the one that is sketchy and lacks experience to know what is really sketchy.



Why would Cat 1s want to ride with you? It is a fair question not trying to insult you. I want to ride with racers who have similar goals, skills and experience - no beginners. You have to ride / race with the beginners.



See comment above on Spectrum. If you race, you must start in the Cat 5 field. I get that you do not want to crash but there is no alternative. And the real races are different from Early Bird activity. There are a numerous, excellent cat 5 racers in actual cat 5 races that have excellent pack skills. Ride with those guys if you can at the front and or breakaway and drop the pack. And if you think you are an A caliber rider, dropping a Cat 5 field should be easy for you.



“A” riders are born and not made. There is only so much one can improve through training. IMO, success on the bike in competition is about finding ones niche and entering those events whether races or other types of rides where one has a competitive advantage.
Probably gonna stay away from crits or road races and just do the safer group rides (spectrum is dangerous but not as dangerous as a race) and just race in alleycats because I'm good at dodging cars. The cat 1/2 guys do training group rides (spectrum, noon ride, morning ride, penvelo, valley ride) where anyone is welcome to join, so I can ride with them by just showing up to the rides.
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Old 01-17-22, 03:05 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
Probably gonna stay away from crits or road races and just do the safer group rides (spectrum is dangerous but not as dangerous as a race) and just race in alleycats because I'm good at dodging cars.
This seems like a totally sound risk mitigation plan.
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Old 01-17-22, 03:12 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
Probably gonna stay away from crits or road races and just do the safer group rides (spectrum is dangerous but not as dangerous as a race) and just race in alleycats because I'm good at dodging cars. The cat 1/2 guys do training group rides (spectrum, noon ride, morning ride, penvelo, valley ride) where anyone is welcome to join, so I can ride with them by just showing up to the rides.
Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
This seems like a totally sound risk mitigation plan.
Yep, sound logic.
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Old 01-17-22, 04:27 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
The cat 1/2 guys do training group rides (spectrum, noon ride, morning ride, penvelo, valley ride) where anyone is welcome to join, so I can ride with them by just showing up to the rides.
As has been suggested many times already: if you want to ride with the Cat 1/2 riders for more than the first few miles (until they drop you), you might want to do some more structured training. You're not going to get faster through osmosis.
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Old 01-17-22, 04:45 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
As has been suggested many times already: if you want to ride with the Cat 1/2 riders for more than the first few miles (until they drop you), you might want to do some more structured training. You're not going to get faster through osmosis.
This. The guys who are leaving you for dead are doing other kinds of training besides group rides. You don't train for a 40 mile group ride by riding a 40 mile group ride.
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Old 01-17-22, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
This seems like a totally sound risk mitigation plan.
"Your logic is sound - mere sound."
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Old 01-17-22, 06:44 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
This. The guys who are leaving you for dead are doing other kinds of training besides group rides. You don't train for a 40 mile group ride by riding a 40 mile group ride.
I just need to deal with this watt/kilo thing and then I'll be good to go.
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Old 01-17-22, 07:13 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
I just need to deal with this watt/kilo thing and then I'll be good to go.
I recommend dialing it up to 6 watts per kilogram.
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Old 01-17-22, 08:02 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
As has been suggested many times already: if you want to ride with the Cat 1/2 riders for more than the first few miles (until they drop you), you might want to do some more structured training. You're not going to get faster through osmosis.
Everyone is a rock star on the A ride during warmup.

He has a lot of opportunity for structured training where he rides.
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Old 01-17-22, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
Everyone is a rock star on the A ride during warmup.

He has a lot of opportunity for structured training where he rides.
I'm buddies with multiple national champs and 1 former world class rider, and some of them do group rides pretty much every day. Their zone 2 is huge though and they can probably stay in it while im in zone 3 or 4. Just showing up to the group rides is honestly pretty good training, not optimal but I should be able to finish them all if I stay consistent. I wouldn't be the first person to get good by just doing the group rides without any real structure.
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Old 01-18-22, 02:00 AM
  #71  
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If they're on a recovery/endurance ride, and you're doing tempo/threshold, then you're not really training the same as they are, are you?
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Old 01-18-22, 05:55 AM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
Planning to quit isn't a thing. You're either drinking or you're not.
Are you implying that planning to do anything isn’t a thing?
Because you are either doing it or or you’re not?
Odd that you would feel the need to point out something so obvious.
I am planning on having a few cocktails later today.
I guess by your logic maybe I won’t end up having them though because I planned it?

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Old 01-18-22, 06:00 AM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
However, when examining the potential for going super -TSB post-ride, it's useful to consider FTP and the advertised w/kg of the ride and how terrain may play into your PD curve. Manipulating CRR and CdA through equipment choices and/or adjusting pack position can allow for sufficiently less FRC-type efforts, just as staying OTB could provide a bit more stimulus if needed. Ultimately, if your plan on TP calls for Z2 but your IF is 1.1 with an NP-buster type ride, you've probably overdone it.
If you can do 1.1, your FTP is wacked and the Zwift police are coming PDQ
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Old 01-18-22, 07:04 AM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by downhillmaster View Post
Are you implying that planning to do anything isn’t a thing?
Because you are either doing it or or you’re not?
Odd that you would feel the need to point out something so obvious.
I am planning on having a few cocktails later today.
I guess by your logic maybe I won’t end up having them though because I planned it?
I’m not surprised that you are confused.
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Old 01-18-22, 08:35 AM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by big john View Post
I recommend dialing it up to 6 watts per kilogram.
Turn it all the way up to 11.
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