rsbob 

There are differing opinions and then there are derogatory comments and character assassinations that come with those differences. Those are the ones in question. All others are just fine.

urbanknight

I understand. Just couldn't resist since I didn't see how post count has anything to do with it.


Cyclists are not the only slow thing on the road, and all of your statements suggest that drivers should not need to be alert for them. God forbid a driver is driving too fast to be able to stop in time should they encounter a stalled vehicle, traffic, car accident, debris, road construction, animal, etc.

In your situations where the driver almost plowed into you, they were clearly driving too close and/or too fast. Blaming that on the cyclist is nonsense.

livedarklions

Signal the guy behind by tapping your brakes whether you need them or not. The brake lights signal the driver to slow down and the light tap of the brakes doesn't significantly increase the chance of being rear ended. I've found it works like a charm, and the only risk is that the guy behind honks.

I generally ride FRAP, but there's places where that right position is clearly in the traffic lane. Drivers need to understand that and drive accordingly, and that doesn't give them a license to "vent" their frustrations in dangerous and counterproductive ways. In the situation you're describing, no one's safety is going to be enhanced by your honking or yelling at the cyclist whether the cyclist is right or wrong, and I don't think we should be celebrating or justifying such reactions by drivers on a bicycling forum.

Any competent drivers ed will tell you that road rage is a killer. This yelling and honking stuff is just a form of that.

shrtdstncrdr

Admittedly, I don't even think about whose behind me much. It's their responsibility to watch the road (and me. And the person on the bicycle) ahead of them. People who drive versus being riders are the ones who piss me off, frankly. I got a lot more tolerant when I started wearing a Neun Kurz. It seems the more responsibility you choose to, um, carry, the more courteous and understanding you become. At least that's what happened for me. Everyone's mileage is different.

I'll do my best to remember your words about tapping the brake lights to warn others when I find myself in this situation in the future. Thanks!

Ken2

[QUOTE=shrtdstncrdr;22504330 I got a [i]lot[/i] more tolerant when I started wearing a Neun Kurz.[/QUOTE]
What is it?

bruce19

When I'm driving or riding a motorcycle or cycling I focus on my place in time and space. I know who is in front to the side and in back. To me it's all an interplay of objects in space/time and their trajectories. From that I have an idea where I am in relation to the other objects and where I need to be and where I will go if something changes.

rsbob 

you should try driving on the highways in S Africa. Situational awareness, front, back, both sides is paramount or you assuredly will die. On a two lane highway, cars pass regardless of oncoming vehicles. But the drivers there know when that happens, you move to the shoulder, like parting the seas. But when you are on the shoulder (1/2 a car width), you have to look for people, bikes, animals, stopped cars and sudden culverts with no signage. The same is true if someone wants to over take you, you move to the shoulder and watch the oncoming cars do the same and this happens constantly. Am amazed that two oncoming passing cars don’t do a head-on on the center line but everyone knows the dance - and all this is happening at 65-70 MPH, or roughly 120-140 KPH. For extra fun the driver is in the right seat. Never a dull moment. <- yes there was bike content.

elcruxio

I'm starting to wonder whether the perception of cyclists rights and responsibilities is tied to the general road safety in the posters country of inhabitance.

this idea came from googling South Africa road safety statistics which in turn was inspired by rsbob's post about the driving habits in South Africa combined with his opinions about cycling safety.

road safety in SA is in a word abysmal btw.

shrtdstncrdr

It isn't nonsense any more than a pedestrian who walks into traffic and isn't suicidal. I wasn't calling the person on the bike ahead of me an idiot, I was referring to people I've seen behind me giving the cyclist "their all" as they pass that person. But yeah, now that I think more about what you wrote, I think anyone who impedes traffic for more than say, negotiating that sweeping bend, really is an idiot.

I'm not expecting you to agree with me. I'm giving my opinion. I think you're wrong. You think I'm wrong. Oh well.

GarageAlwaysFul

Those negative unsafe type definitely tend to stick out, that's for sure.

downhillmaster

downhillmaster

The ignoreant crew out in force in this thread

urbanknight

That's fair, but I don't know how much you have studied bicycle accidents, if at all. My research has shown a higher likelihood of accidents on sidewalks and shoulders than on traffic lanes. Motorists simply aren't expecting anything faster than about 5 mph to be where pedestrians are, and plenty of cyclists end up under a car or over the hood of a vehicle entering or exiting a driveway, or making a turn across a crosswalk. They also can't see until it's too late when at a blind intersection.

I probably won't convince you of anything, but 30+ years of vehicular cycling without incident isn't just sheer luck. I'll keep doing what works for me and you do what works for you.

But back to the nonsense or idiot issue, just because you don't understand a person's reason for doing something, doesn't invalidate their reason.

Troul 

I'll toss on the hazards until it's safe to pass or the rider turns off somewhere.

Digger Goreman

Most days I lose count of the jackgas motorists I yell at (whether I'm biking or motoring). Cyclists aren't immune, but the least of my worries....

bicyclemayhem

This. I mean sure, people mess up and whatever, but other cyclists are pretty much the last thing I'm worried about.

ZHVelo

Rightly so. I despise cyclists that do moronic, dangerous things like this.

I have no issue running a red light if it is safe to do so, e.g. turning right when no car is coming from left (I believe in the US you can do this anyway, no?), so I really am not a stickler for rules, but on a 4 way intersection? Seen it happen. Just why?

LarrySellerz

I agree, only been hit once and I was riding on the sidewalk and a car turned into me.

rsbob 

Often tapping the brakes can be seen as passive aggressive while putting on flashers doesn’t have that connotation - instead, danger ahead. I think most people have been “brake-checked” on time or another.

When I was driving on the autobahn, if there was a sudden unforeseen slowdown, German drivers turn on their flashers (while braking) to notify that this is a sudden slow down or stop. I thought that made a ton of sense. I drive primarily on two lane highways with speeds from 50-60 MPH, and if there is someone turning off and slowing quickly, I now flip on my flashers to notify the vehicle behind me something is happening. Whether they understand or not is up to their perceptiveness. Troul’s idea is also a wiener.

livedarklions

Yeah, I can see how the brake tap could be read as a brake check if done too closely. I do think it's just a little easier to do than putting on the hazards (maybe a fraction of a second difference in how long it takes to move your hand to push the button vs. moving your foot from the gas pedal)), so I suspect there's situations where each of them is the better alternative.

TBH, I've never thought of putting on the flashers under these circumstances, so I'm grateful to you guys for adding to the repertory of responses.
.

urbanknight

I have witnessed it multiple times, and learning from other people's mistakes has served me well. One of those times was on a "bike path", but it had a parking lot exiting next to the corner of the building, obscuring the driver's view. Another was at a crosswalk where the driver wasn't looking for a pedestrian that far back, and the cyclist flew over the hood and landed on the ground on the other side with the bike staying back with a taco'ed wheel and cracked frame.

rsbob 

Ha ha ha! You are a panic. If you would like to fly out, I would be more than happy to take you on a personal guided tour with refreshments.

livedarklions

But you'll ignore him the whole time?

WhyFi

He won't tell us where he was so inconvenienced, by these entitled cyclists, that he had to harangue them from the safety of his car... but he'll take me off ignore and summon me back to a thread (that I'd been unsubscribed from for a week and a half) so that he can invite me over and offer refreshments (that I wouldn't need to keep on his wheel).

Sounds legit.

rsbob 

Sorry but it was a case of mistaken identity. You were never put on the ignore list and I do enjoy your thoughts, wisdom and humor. My apologies.

If you don ‘t want to accept my apology, it’s perfectly understandable.