mjac

I don't get many flats. I want to up my odds and improve my percentages so my probability of getting a flat is even lower. I want that security. That is more important to me then the ultimate lowest rolling resistance tire. I want to find the ultimate compromise between very good puncture resistance while maintaining a descent ride.

alcjphil

And, you still don't address the reason why you had flat tires. if punctures are not the primary reason you are looking in the wrong place

​​​​​​Unless you figure out why you had a flat tire you will continue to have them
It will not always be a puncture

mjac

Whoa...I do not know what order these came in, I just got a bunch of notices, I do not know if this was addressed yet, so I will take it one at a time.

No one is referring to you. I am referring to myself asking for different opinions to gather some information. You have nothing to do with it. Why are you injecting yourself into it?

I have stated this repestedly. It is not about stopping a rash of flat tires. I do not get many flat tires of any type. I want to increase my odds of not getting puncture flats for even more security. I am not trying to solve an existing problems. You are right, quality tubes or tubeless and maintaining air pressure to eliminate valve splitting and pinch flats is important too.

As to your last sentence, I am not having flats, so there is nothing to figure out. I am trying to improve my odds as much as possible from getting flats. And it is true, you can have the fanciest tire in the world, you roll it in an urban environment and it flats you are going nowhere and it might be at the wrong place at the wrong time.

mjac

Like I said, I do not know what order these came in so I do not know if I am being redundant.So I will take it one at a time and address each one separately one line at a time.

I do not have to address why I had flat tires because I am not having flat tires. There is no primary reason because there are no flat tires.

I want to develop a system that gives even better protection to lessen the chances of getting a flat tire even more. One it is interesting to me because it goes against the grain it is a curious pursuit and two it is a practice issue of not being flatted out at the wrong place at the wrong time in an urban setting. It is not all green grass and roses.

alcjphil

This was one of your replies to which I said that I do not have to ask about anything
Unless you figure out why you had a flat tire you will continue to have them
It will not always be a puncture

Camilo

Gatorskin are excellent and the folding version are pretty light.

mjac

Like I said this is jumbled and there is overlap so I will take this one at a time like it stands alone.

Let us put this point to rest. No one was asking you to ask. I was speaking of myself asking to gain information, not you. You had nothing to do with it. That is your own doing.

Two,again, I am not having any flats. I want to develop a system that is even safer for even better security. You are assuming I am having flats and are trying to solve the problem. That is not what is happening. I am not having flats. I just want an improved system for even more protection.

ThermionicScott 

Just think how much time would have been saved if you had mentioned this in the beginning. I'm sure I'm not the only one who figured all these threads were inspired by a frustrating rash of flats.

mjac

Thank You. Are you satisfied with how they ride and handle? The guys here are just trashing their ride. I think I have finally figured out what is going on. Yes, compared to their specialized road tires they are not good for rolling resistance and handling but they are really not that bad. Just not up to the elite road tires these guys are use to. U

mjac

Saving time is not always a good thing. Some things would not come out unless they were hashed around. Like I was too concentrated on punctures where everyone stressed there are other causes for flats that actually happen far more often. Which I was not thinking of. Maintaining pressure to prevent pinch flats or going tubeless to prevent pinch flats. Using good tubes to prevent valve failure. For me that means going to Schrader. Liners and Sealent can deteriorate the ride. Some puncture resistant tires may ride too harsh all by themselves. Sealent and narrow high pressure tires might not work. The best brands of both. Aramid Bands. The compromise between ride and puncture resistance. On and on.

In in my mind I wanted to develop a good flat resistance system on its own just for the sake of it.[img]webkit-fake-url://59ef0ae1-6fe2-4b6e-85a9-d02a7c4a3506/imagejpeg[/img]

Ironfish653

I would say if you're not getting flat tires (how long have you been riding / keeping track?) then you've got an adequate level of flat protection for the riding you do.

It's a spectrum: Ride Quality -v- Flat Protection getting more of one, you have to give up some of the other. As previous posters have said, they either deal with heavy, stiff, puncture resistant tires, because they'd otherwise get a lot of flats, or forego puncture resistance, and just deal with flat tires.
None of us can decide how much puncture protection you need, and what you consider 'good' ride quality.

Are you concerned about flats because you can't change / patch a tube? If that's the case, I suggest you learn. I can be rolling in less than 10 minutes from the time I get a flat. All my bikes carry a tube, patches and tire levers, plus the pump, if i'm planning on riding farther than I want to walk home.

If it's the neighborhoods you ride through, then go for the low-key approach. Ride in clothes that look like work clothes. Most people won't bother some dude just tryin' to get to work on his bike. Keep the bike low-profile. I have a 1970's 'Ten-speed' converted into my townie / path bike. It's quite a nice bike, but unless you know what you're looking at, and get right up close to it, it doesn't look like much.
Either that, or find somewhere else to ride.

mjac

I may get an occasional flat from a puncture but I want to eliminate every puncture except those that are unavoidable. That's just what I want to do. A set up that can handle any urban situation with security. But like all of you have said punctures are only part of the story. You have to maintain pressure and use good tubes to prevent valve failure. It is all part of it.

Eveyone has has their own formula and everyone here emphasizes rolling resistance and ride quality and less puncture resistance. I want to have very good puncture resistance and try and get the best ride I can at a very high resistance. But the high resistance comes first. I have to find thevright combination for me.

This is whole discussion led me to put together a patch tool kit in a low profile Zefal bag. It made the bike heavier then I wanted. I enjoy the mechanics of fixing a flat. But you are not going to remove a rear wheel with a 15mm wrench,break down the tire, pull the tube, pump it and find the leak, lay it down correctly on the tire and find what in the casing caused the puncture and fix it, lay in a new tube,re-bead the tire, pump it up, reinstall the tire, center it and tighten the axle bolts, repack the tool kit in 10 minutes on the side of the road. Not going to happen doing it right.

Let me make this abundantly clear, I am going to ride where I want to ride, when I want to ride, what I want to ride and how I want to ride anytime I ride. That is the point of this whole exercise. I am going to do everything in my power to prevent causing trouble to happen,but after I have done everything I can to avoid trouble and it still happens I am going to deal with it and that is all I am going to say and I am not going to play.

Ironfish653

OK, I did some tire research. Given you mentioned a 700x28, that's what I looked at. Biketiresdirect.com has almost half a hundred to choose from in that size. These four are all tires known to be durable (or just tough) and come up in BF discussion on the regular.
What's 'Best' depends a lot on what kind of bike you're putting them on, and what kind of riding you're doing with it.

Schwalbe Marathon Plus -The Big Dog. All the layers, extra-thick rubber. Probably the most puncture resistant. Will add almost a kilo to your bike.

Conti Gator / Hardshells -The Fast One. Narrow, thin, and smooth. Almost as lite as a GP-4 'racing' tire, but the extra-tough layers make it stiffer. Doing a lot of fast centuries? this is your ride. 'Hardshell' has bead-to-bead armor.

Panaracer Pacela (PT) - The Classic. Beefed-up version of a design that's been around for decades. Not as much hi-tech armor as a Gator, but more rubber, and a mild chevron tread pattern that's proven on all kinds of mixed surfaces. Decently light, 'punches above it's weight'

Conti TourRide - The Budget 'Buster' only one breaker layer, but a thick, sturdy carcass, and lots of rubber means it can shrug off a lot of hazards. Less than half the price of Marathons.

Like we've said before, there's a range, and only you can decide what point is 'good enough' for you.

mjac

Alright, you made a effort to give relevant information. So you deserve as much information as possible.This is it. It is 15 year old Schwinn Varsity with the polished Aluminum Frame that I rebuilt.(love the frame, the welds are beautiful) After adding everything, it is heavy. This is the primary route it is used on. A sun up and a sunset Rec Ride on this Bike Path which up and back is about 8 miles along with an occasional foray into urban areas as a necessity,though I avoid the street.

Now to your tires and my concerns after everything that has been brought up. Everyone said put the biggest tire you can fit on the bike. I am going to put on the 28mm I have to see how big I can go.

The Marathon: Everyone mentioned this tire,especially in the beginning and I said well this is it. Then one fella who I know knows what he is talking about said it rolls even worst then the gators which ya'll absolutely trash for its ride and from what you said is heavy.

The Gator Harshell: I like the way this tire sounds. It adds significant protection by adding technical layers.It rolls pretty good. Continental makes good products. It is light. People say it holds up well and is durable. It is a good value for the price. But people absolutely trash the ride. One calling it a lead filled garden hose.

Panracer Pacela: Seems like it has a nice ride, handles well and is decently light. But I don't know if it has the level of puncture protection I am looking for which is the point of this whole thing. If I purchase tires I want significantly more puncture protection then I have now.

Conti Tour Ride: A scaled down version of the Gators without the technical layers made by the same good company that makes the gators at a good reasonable price. But if you are looking for puncture protection why compromise.

So for the money,puncture resistance and rolling ability it looks like the gators which will horrify the purists.

The only other thing is the collection of tires I have right now is a 700X23 Bontreger Race Lite hard case with triple flat protection and the 700X28 Bontreger Race Lite with an Aramid Band. As an experiment I am thinking of injecting the tubes with Flat Attack and putting in a Mr. Tuffy tire liner. I don't know if this provides the puncture resistance of the Maraton and the gators while giving a better ride. Or if adding these things to a tire design is a waist of time and you are fooling yourself.

TheLizard

My cycling is mostly commuting, mostly road and some gravel.

I ride in the shoulder of a long bridge, which ends up with a lot of debris, so I've gotten punctures resulting in flats twice going over that stretch.

I have cheap tires, though (Evo Outcross), so I just fill the tubes with Slime and call it good.

mjac

Bridge Shoulders are notorious. One guy recommended a Sealent called Flat Attack. Might be a cheap fix before you upgrade your tires.

Notso_fastLane

Now that the weather's (finally!) starting to get reasonable, I need to order some Flat Attack for my 2-wheel recumbent. I currently run Schwalbe Kojaks on it at ~95 psi. They aren't known for their flat resistance, but I do also have (Mr. Tuffy, I think, it's been years with no issues) tire liners. I have pulled goatheads out of them with no issues, but I'm going to add Flat Attack as well.

bpcyclist

Looks like that route your ride along the water could get really windy sometimes... Yikes.

Let me clarify why I recommended the Hardshell. First, I make no claims of being some kind of cycling genius-extreme-biking-expert-total-genius-guru. I know what I know. But I do ride a lot of miles in varied terrain and conditions, both in-city and out-. I ride for the mental and physcial helath benefits, because it is fun, and because I think bikes are cool. I do keep track of some very basic stats, but I certainly don't race. Don't care one bit about my times.. Just want a good workout.

I haven't ridden on scads of road tires over the years. Mostly, different Marathons, GP4000s and 4000IIs, a few different Rubinos of various sorts, and both Gatorskins and the Hardshell. I, myself, would not describe the overall ride quality of Hardshells as trash. Personally, I think that is a completely inaccurate claim, myself. They're fine. My favorite ride of all time was def was one of the Marathons--not sure which one that was, but they were heaven. Just loved those tires.

That said, they did flat. Way more often than the Hardshell does. Way more. And where I ride, with glass and debris and limbs and large and small rocks from the winter sanding season from 2 years ago still on the right side of most lanes, puncture resistance is a real issue. I would happily rather be occasionaly be passed by someone on zippy Rubinos every now and then than have to stop more frequently to repair a flat. The weather is wet and cold here 8 months out of the year. Fixing flats is not something I enjoy when it is 35 degrees and pouring. My hands get numb, etc,. blah. It's filthy, too, because it is so wet here for so much of the year.

It is my personal belief, and this is just that, a belief, that most of the people who bit** and moan about how awful Hardshells are do not care about pucnture resistance, really in the least. They care about rolling resistance and speed. And that's great. It's one way to do it. It's just not what I care about.

So, get something that meets the needs of your values, not someone else's. Then, you'll be all set. Whatever those values are.

mjac

VERY Windy.

My profile fits yours fairly well. I ride for the enjoyment of it and the experience to get some really good high activity exercise with out high impact. Cicyling is beautiful for this. I am not too interested racing or pursuing the highest possible effeicency and speed. But there are groups of riders who come by on weekends that I would like to smoke but I do not know if I can. Can not keep pace with them. But part of enjoying the experience is eliminating the inconveniences and aggravations of things like flatting out so I can concentrate on enjoying what I am doing. There is another factor but I do not want to get into that right now. I am going to post about that later. So like you flat protection is more important and practical then the ultimate rolling tire to the horror of the purists. I couldn't figure out there attitude until I realized what was going on. I don't think they were saying the Gators ride like trash because they actually ride like trash, they were saying compared to their elite road tires they ride like trash. I think the Gator Hard Case is a highly engineered tire by a legitamate Company, Contiental, that captures the best it can in ride ability while giving superior flat protection. When you said the Gator's flat protection is far superior to the Marathon that sealed it. One guy said the Gators roll much better then the Marathons too. The Marathons might ride more comfortably. I can't let other people's prejudices affect my thinking and I did. I was looking to compromise for better road performance to satisfy them. But I can't do that. The Gator Skin Hardshells are good tire for what I want it to do, is a good value and hold up for a long time. They almost seem ideal for me and me is the only person I have to please. I will leave you with this since I went a little long and this irritated the Road Kings with their Race Tires to no end, the tire with the most rolling resistance of all...is a flat tire. Says it all.

bpcyclist

Touche.

Sy Reene

Some flat tires have lower rolling resistance vs other flat tires.

mjac

But they are all flat...Except the Gators.

ramzilla

picture time

mjac

The fella upstream who ran Schwalbe Marathons and Hard Case Gators said though the Marathons were a super riding tire they flatted much,much more then the Hard Case Gators and another person who used both stated the Hard Case Gators roll better then the Marathons. The PanaRacer Pacelas ride better and roll better then both of them I believe but they do not offer anywhere near the flat protection of the Hard Case Gators, which is paramount. I am betting the ride of the Hard Case Gators isn't as harsh as it's critiques say and nothing approaches its fLat protection. So for now,for me, it looks like the Gators for better or worse.

PaulRivers

Schalbe Marathon Plus's are the best for puncture resistance.

Everything you're doing after that is messing around with "well, ok, I'll give up some flat protection for ride quality, what's the best compromise between the two?". Either perspective is understandable what's irritating is doing on while pretending to do the other.

P.S. The Schwalbe Marathon Plus's are different than the regular marathon's.