Any such thing as a better bottom bracket?
10-15-21, 08:11 PM
#26
Jedi Master
You can find square taper bottom brackets with 10 year warranties. I don't recall ever seeing an external bottom bracket with a warranty that long.
10-15-21, 10:54 PM
#27
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....everything you have written in this post is subject to some debate. Outboard bearing setups are certainly lighter.
But in actual practice, they often end up with a shorter service life than a high quality, sealed unit inboard bearing BB setup.
A lot of this depends on the quality of the original components/bearings, how well they are sealed, and individual usage. So it's not a real easy comparison to make.
But the idea that outboard bearing setups are inherently a "better design", because they support the crank spindle "farther out", is dubious, at best. Sorry, but you have been sold an idea that is more complex in actual practice. The biggest problem with outboard bearing setups is getting the bearing cups installed perfectly parallel. But there are other issues with them as well.
I have had this discussion before with someone who had strong opinions on the matter, and who no longer posts in the mechanics forum. He was absolutely convinced I was wrong on this as well, so I don't really expect to convince anyone. If I thought outboard bearings were inherently superior, I'd probably convert a couple of my bikes.
But in actual practice, they often end up with a shorter service life than a high quality, sealed unit inboard bearing BB setup.
A lot of this depends on the quality of the original components/bearings, how well they are sealed, and individual usage. So it's not a real easy comparison to make.
But the idea that outboard bearing setups are inherently a "better design", because they support the crank spindle "farther out", is dubious, at best. Sorry, but you have been sold an idea that is more complex in actual practice. The biggest problem with outboard bearing setups is getting the bearing cups installed perfectly parallel. But there are other issues with them as well.
I have had this discussion before with someone who had strong opinions on the matter, and who no longer posts in the mechanics forum. He was absolutely convinced I was wrong on this as well, so I don't really expect to convince anyone. If I thought outboard bearings were inherently superior, I'd probably convert a couple of my bikes.
Your argument is like the arguments about steel vs X, where X is any other material that will aspolde because it isn’t steel. Lots of people have said that the original cartridge type bearing like the ones Shimano uses failed “all the time” when they came out. They didn’t in my experience. The same people said the same thing about ISIS bearings. They were equally wrong in my experience. They have said the same about external bearings and, again, they are wrong. I have had dozens of both ISIS bearings, cartridge bearing from various manufacturers, and external bearings. With the exception of the Chris King (an external bearing), I have never had a cartridge bearing of any flavor fail even with 10,000s of thousands of miles on them. I still have 2 bikes that use ISIS bottom brackets that are spinning just fine. The rest have external bearings and have never had any issues despite the fact that I have done nothing extra to the frames to ensure how parallel the bearings are.
From the standpoint of external bearing cranksets, they are far simpler to install and remove than any other crankset. They use fewer tools and can be easily removed in the field. The same can’t be said about either ISIS or square taper.
From the standpoint of external bearing cranksets, they are far simpler to install and remove than any other crankset. They use fewer tools and can be easily removed in the field. The same can’t be said about either ISIS or square taper.
It doesn’t matter what kind of bottom bracket is used. With the exception of loose bearing bottom brackets…of which, I have destroyed many…no bottom bracket type is better than any other one in my experience which includes 10 years of working on very marginal bikes at my local co-op. External bottom brackets are far better in that they are simpler to work on. They are a bit like threadless headsets…fewer steps, fewer tools, less that can go wrong.
Just to be clear, I disagree that there is a problem with external bottom brackets. They last as long…in my personal and co-op experience…as any other bottom bracket. I would…and have…use a used external bottom bracket for my own bikes.
Just to be clear, I disagree that there is a problem with external bottom brackets. They last as long…in my personal and co-op experience…as any other bottom bracket. I would…and have…use a used external bottom bracket for my own bikes.
Happy Halloween, Stewart.
The idea that you have done nothing to insure that your outboard bearings run parallel in your BB shell applications can mean either that the frames were prepped prior to your receipt of them, or that you have just been lucky, or that none of your bikes setup this way has seen prolonged usage enough to produce failure...it's based on your own anecdotal experience. As is so much of your strong opinion as expressed like the ten commandments in the mechanics forum. It's not convincing argument to anyone except you. But have fun with it. I'm out.
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10-15-21, 11:17 PM
#28
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...a long time ago, I copied and saved this off the FSA website. I think it's gone now, but it gives some perspectives on the mechanical design and manufacturing/assembly realities of why and how these outboard bearing, two piece crank designs came into wide usage. I offer it here simply as food for thought. I don't think it's available on the web any more, which is why I have included it in its entirety. I don't think it's a copyright violation if it has disappeared from the original website, but I might be wrong on that. If so, I beg forgiveness. Draw your own conclusions.
...a long time ago, I copied and saved this off the FSA website. I think it's gone now, but it gives some perspectives on the mechanical design and manufacturing/assembly realities of why and how these outboard bearing, two piece crank designs came into wide usage. I offer it here simply as food for thought. I don't think it's available on the web any more, which is why I have included it in its entirety. I don't think it's a copyright violation if it has disappeared from the original website, but I might be wrong on that. If so, I beg forgiveness. Draw your own conclusions.
Alternative Systems - oversize integrated BB's
That said, over 2 years ago we started new developments looking beyond
ISIS Drive. We looked at all the novel systems that came before, such
as integrated cranks like Bullseye and Sweet Parts, etc. as well as
external bearing BB's such made by Magic Motorcycle. But the
conclusion we came to was that the weakest point in the system was the
small diameter BB shell and that the best system was to enlarge the BB
shell and integrate the BB into frame. The oversize integrated BB in
the frame offers the greatest absolute system (frame + BB + crank)
stiffness at the lowest overall weight. Cannondale previously proved
this point by switching from the Magic Motorcycle external bearing
system (which they owned) to a frame integrated BB. More recently,
Pinarello is headed this way.
We introduced in 2002 the "MegaTech" integrated BB standard, open to
all frame and BB manufacturers. The large diameter BB shell offered
frame designers a larger foundation to work around with lots of space
inside for BB manufacturers to engineer better axles and bearings.
However, bicycle manufacturers have been reluctant to embrace the
MegaTech standard (which is surprising because they sure drive the
experiments with headset standards!), despite the great advantages of
integrated BB's.
Alternative Systems - oversize threaded BB's
A season after we introduced MegaTech, the ISIS-Drive Committee
proposed another standard for an internal oversize BB, called
OverDrive. The difference is that OverDrive is not integrated, but
uses oversize threaded cups. OverDrive's advantages compared to
MegaTech are that frame builders do not have to hold as tight
tolerances (a thread can have sloppier dimensions than the ream
required for a press-fit bearing) and it is more "familiar" to dealers
and consumers than a press-fit. Anyways, it is significantly heavier
than other BB systems, which is probably OK for the mid-end and
heavy-duty bikes it is targeted towards.
Alternative Systems - external bearings and integrated cranks
External bearing BB's combined with integrated cranks offer some modest
weight and stiffness improvement over ISIS Drive. For a given crankarm
technology, the main weight savings is the elimination of BB bolts and
thinner axle, but the larger bearings, external cups, and longer axle
do limit the weight reduction compared to frame-integrated BB's.
There are advantages to external bearings that are different from the
advantages of integrated cranks. The advantages to the BB manufacturer
of the Magic-type external bearing are that the bearings are both
larger (last longer) and are common off-the-shelf cartridge bearings
(cheaper), which are easier to produce and procure than custom bearings
for Octalink or ISIS BB's.
The advantages to the crank manufacturer of integrated Bullseye-type
cranks are that they are guaranteed that the customer will always use
the intended BB with the crank (and it doesn't hurt that they will
always sell a BB with a crank). The advantage to the Bike Company and
dealers is that there are fewer worries about mis-matched BB's, faster
assembly and compatibility with current threaded frame designs. For a
bike company assembling tens of thousands of bikes a year, reduced
assembly time is important.
When bike manufacturers and consumers are free to mix-and-match cranks
and BB's, there is the small chance that a crank will be installed on a
BB it was not intended for, which can in turn cause problems for
chainline (shifting performance), crank-arm clearance and q-factor.
There are 2 major problems with square taper BB's in that there is no
standard axle length for cranks and the taper dimensions can be made to
either Japanese dimension (which follow JIS) or European dimension
(which follow ISO), so even if you get the right axle length then you
may have the wrong taper size.
ISIS-Drive cleverly addressed this problem by assigning standard
lengths (i.e. 108mm for road double, 113mm for MTB, 118mm for road
triple, etc.), so you (almost) always know which length of axle you
need for your cranks, and by using chainline control shoulders, so your
chainline would always be as intended. The great power of ISIS-Drive's
open standard is also it's weakness - the tapered spline requires great
care to produce and the ISIS standard leaves manufacturing open to
interpretation in some respects. In some instances early on,
manufacturers found that their in-spec products would not work with
another's in-spec product...exactly what was not supposed to happen
with ISIS-Drive. Fortunately, many ISIS-Drive competitors have
cooperated together to hammer out the manufacturing kinks.
So, external bearing BB's offer some simplified manufacturing and some
performance benefit compared to ISIS-Drive BB's. They are compatible
with most current bikes and frames. Integrated cranks reduce the
possibility of mismatched BB axles and allow faster assembly."
That said, over 2 years ago we started new developments looking beyond
ISIS Drive. We looked at all the novel systems that came before, such
as integrated cranks like Bullseye and Sweet Parts, etc. as well as
external bearing BB's such made by Magic Motorcycle. But the
conclusion we came to was that the weakest point in the system was the
small diameter BB shell and that the best system was to enlarge the BB
shell and integrate the BB into frame. The oversize integrated BB in
the frame offers the greatest absolute system (frame + BB + crank)
stiffness at the lowest overall weight. Cannondale previously proved
this point by switching from the Magic Motorcycle external bearing
system (which they owned) to a frame integrated BB. More recently,
Pinarello is headed this way.
We introduced in 2002 the "MegaTech" integrated BB standard, open to
all frame and BB manufacturers. The large diameter BB shell offered
frame designers a larger foundation to work around with lots of space
inside for BB manufacturers to engineer better axles and bearings.
However, bicycle manufacturers have been reluctant to embrace the
MegaTech standard (which is surprising because they sure drive the
experiments with headset standards!), despite the great advantages of
integrated BB's.
Alternative Systems - oversize threaded BB's
A season after we introduced MegaTech, the ISIS-Drive Committee
proposed another standard for an internal oversize BB, called
OverDrive. The difference is that OverDrive is not integrated, but
uses oversize threaded cups. OverDrive's advantages compared to
MegaTech are that frame builders do not have to hold as tight
tolerances (a thread can have sloppier dimensions than the ream
required for a press-fit bearing) and it is more "familiar" to dealers
and consumers than a press-fit. Anyways, it is significantly heavier
than other BB systems, which is probably OK for the mid-end and
heavy-duty bikes it is targeted towards.
Alternative Systems - external bearings and integrated cranks
External bearing BB's combined with integrated cranks offer some modest
weight and stiffness improvement over ISIS Drive. For a given crankarm
technology, the main weight savings is the elimination of BB bolts and
thinner axle, but the larger bearings, external cups, and longer axle
do limit the weight reduction compared to frame-integrated BB's.
There are advantages to external bearings that are different from the
advantages of integrated cranks. The advantages to the BB manufacturer
of the Magic-type external bearing are that the bearings are both
larger (last longer) and are common off-the-shelf cartridge bearings
(cheaper), which are easier to produce and procure than custom bearings
for Octalink or ISIS BB's.
The advantages to the crank manufacturer of integrated Bullseye-type
cranks are that they are guaranteed that the customer will always use
the intended BB with the crank (and it doesn't hurt that they will
always sell a BB with a crank). The advantage to the Bike Company and
dealers is that there are fewer worries about mis-matched BB's, faster
assembly and compatibility with current threaded frame designs. For a
bike company assembling tens of thousands of bikes a year, reduced
assembly time is important.
When bike manufacturers and consumers are free to mix-and-match cranks
and BB's, there is the small chance that a crank will be installed on a
BB it was not intended for, which can in turn cause problems for
chainline (shifting performance), crank-arm clearance and q-factor.
There are 2 major problems with square taper BB's in that there is no
standard axle length for cranks and the taper dimensions can be made to
either Japanese dimension (which follow JIS) or European dimension
(which follow ISO), so even if you get the right axle length then you
may have the wrong taper size.
ISIS-Drive cleverly addressed this problem by assigning standard
lengths (i.e. 108mm for road double, 113mm for MTB, 118mm for road
triple, etc.), so you (almost) always know which length of axle you
need for your cranks, and by using chainline control shoulders, so your
chainline would always be as intended. The great power of ISIS-Drive's
open standard is also it's weakness - the tapered spline requires great
care to produce and the ISIS standard leaves manufacturing open to
interpretation in some respects. In some instances early on,
manufacturers found that their in-spec products would not work with
another's in-spec product...exactly what was not supposed to happen
with ISIS-Drive. Fortunately, many ISIS-Drive competitors have
cooperated together to hammer out the manufacturing kinks.
So, external bearing BB's offer some simplified manufacturing and some
performance benefit compared to ISIS-Drive BB's. They are compatible
with most current bikes and frames. Integrated cranks reduce the
possibility of mismatched BB axles and allow faster assembly."
10-16-21, 01:13 AM
#29
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You obviously have NO CLUE about what "Basically UNSERVICEABLE!" means.
IF you want to spend an inordinate amount of time on an "iffy" repair instead of $13-20 for a new one you certainly have my permission to be an idiot. I simply don't see YOU being successful considering the nature of your questions/apparent skill level.
IF you have the tools/ability to do THIS job, your time can be much better spent elsewhere.
Ignore list because you never seem to make an attempt to THINK.
IF you want to spend an inordinate amount of time on an "iffy" repair instead of $13-20 for a new one you certainly have my permission to be an idiot. I simply don't see YOU being successful considering the nature of your questions/apparent skill level.
IF you have the tools/ability to do THIS job, your time can be much better spent elsewhere.
Ignore list because you never seem to make an attempt to THINK.
10-16-21, 09:44 AM
#30
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Because I am unimpressed with your "ten years of experience at your local co-op", I am cursed with you as a stalker in the mechanics forum in perpetuity.
The idea that you have done nothing to insure that your outboard bearings run parallel in your BB shell applications can mean either that the frames were prepped prior to your receipt of them, or that you have just been lucky, or that none of your bikes setup this way has seen prolonged usage enough to produce failure...it's based on your own anecdotal experience. As is so much of your strong opinion as expressed like the ten commandments in the mechanics forum. It's not convincing argument to anyone except you.
As to usage, nice dig there. Is 10,000 miles enough. That’s the mileage on my touring bike. Is 25,000 miles enough? That’s the mileage on my commuter bike. Both have external bearings. Neither of those bikes had anymore preparation than a normal bike would get from the fractory.
There is also my supposed “experience”. In 10 years of working at the co-op, I have worked on 15,000 bikes and sorted through tons of parts (literally). I have never seen an external bearing set that was bad and only seen a few other cartridge bearing sets of any kind that were bad in all that time. There have been a few but they rare. In terms of durability, external bearings aren’t much better than any other. That doesn’t mean that they aren’t superior in other respects.
But have fun with it. I'm out.
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10-16-21, 11:10 AM
#31
Jedi Master
I am truly puzzled by these claims that bottom brackets last forever it is so inconsistent with my personal experiences. Cheap bottom brackets of any kind don't last very long for me and a quality square taper lasts longer than a similarly priced external set. I don't see either as being difficult to replace so that's a wash.
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10-16-21, 11:16 AM
#32
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BOTTOM BRACKETS, CRANK AXLES AND BEARINGS: YOUR GUIDE TO A COMPATIBLE FIT
...or, "Why this discussion is a lot more complex than you might suppose."
10-16-21, 11:36 AM
#33
Jedi Master
That article reminded me. I have a power torque external bottom bracket which has also not lasted forever and is way more of a pain to replace than any square taper.
10-16-21, 12:02 PM
#34
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I am truly puzzled by these claims that bottom brackets last forever it is so inconsistent with my personal experiences. Cheap bottom brackets of any kind don't last very long for me and a quality square taper lasts longer than a similarly priced external set. I don't see either as being difficult to replace so that's a wash.
This might be the biggest scandal in the bicycle world since the Armstrong doping revelations....life is suffering. Buddhists know this already.
10-16-21, 01:51 PM
#35
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Promises. Promises.
The discussion isn’t about complexity. You are the one who brought up externals bottom brackets. The article also doesn’t really support your point about external bottom brackets being delicate.
I’m pretty sure that “reliability” isn’t just about how the crank goes around.
BOTTOM BRACKETS, CRANK AXLES AND BEARINGS: YOUR GUIDE TO A COMPATIBLE FIT
...or, "Why this discussion is a lot more complex than you might suppose."
...or, "Why this discussion is a lot more complex than you might suppose."
Shimano’s Hollowtech II cranks, unveiled in 2003, essentially ushered in the current era of crank design by integrating the axle into the design of the crank. From that point on, the weight, stiffness and reliability of cranks improved, plus, they were easier to install and service.
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10-16-21, 04:02 PM
#36
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Additionally, while I may have facetiously said that bottom brackets last forever, I do realize that is an…um…overestimation. But they do last a very long time in my experience. I would say thousands to tens of thousands of miles is worth having to replace a few of them. Back in the early days of mountain biking and loose bearing sets, I replaced spindles about as often as I replaced headsets…which seemed after every ride (again, I joke…but only slightly).
How many of the Power Torque BBs have you replaced? How often?
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10-16-21, 04:53 PM
#37
Jedi Master
I only have one bike with a power torque crank and have replaced the bearings only once. I don't really keep track of miles per bike, but I'd guess they lasted 6-7k miles. I'm into randonneuring so I ride a lot of miles in crappy weather which is hard on bearing life. One rainy 600k is probably more miles in the rain than a lot of people ride all year. I also have a bike with a hollowtech crank and have replaced those too. Not the same thing at all. With a power torque crank you need a puller to get the crank off, then you need another puller to get the pressfit bearing off the crank, then a press to get the replacement bearing on the crank. Watch a video and you'll see what I mean. It takes over a hundred dollars worth of tools that are only good for that one job. Ultra torque is a little bit easier because you don't need a puller to get the crank off, but you still have to pull the bearing from the crank and press on the replacement. I'm pretty intolerant of any noise on my bikes so I may also replace parts that wouldn't bother other people. I'll sometimes ride with other people and say "doesn't that noise bother you?" and they'll say "what noise?"
10-16-21, 06:10 PM
#38
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...what I said:
...what Stewart seems to think I said:
...what the strawman said in the Wizard of Oz:
...what I said:
Outboard bearing setups are certainly lighter.
But in actual practice, they often end up with a shorter service life than a high quality, sealed unit inboard bearing BB setup.
A lot of this depends on the quality of the original components/bearings, how well they are sealed, and individual usage. So it's not a real easy comparison to make.
But the idea that outboard bearing setups are inherently a "better design", because they support the crank spindle "farther out", is dubious, at best. ....
But in actual practice, they often end up with a shorter service life than a high quality, sealed unit inboard bearing BB setup.
A lot of this depends on the quality of the original components/bearings, how well they are sealed, and individual usage. So it's not a real easy comparison to make.
But the idea that outboard bearing setups are inherently a "better design", because they support the crank spindle "farther out", is dubious, at best. ....
...what Stewart seems to think I said:
Originally Posted by The Scarecrow
Some People Without Brains Do An Awful Lot of Talking.
10-16-21, 09:45 PM
#39
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There are way too many insults here. Let’s stop please
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10-17-21, 09:50 AM
#40
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I only have one bike with a power torque crank and have replaced the bearings only once. I don't really keep track of miles per bike, but I'd guess they lasted 6-7k miles. I'm into randonneuring so I ride a lot of miles in crappy weather which is hard on bearing life. One rainy 600k is probably more miles in the rain than a lot of people ride all year. I also have a bike with a hollowtech crank and have replaced those too. Not the same thing at all. With a power torque crank you need a puller to get the crank off, then you need another puller to get the pressfit bearing off the crank, then a press to get the replacement bearing on the crank. Watch a video and you'll see what I mean. It takes over a hundred dollars worth of tools that are only good for that one job. Ultra torque is a little bit easier because you don't need a puller to get the crank off, but you still have to pull the bearing from the crank and press on the replacement. I'm pretty intolerant of any noise on my bikes so I may also replace parts that wouldn't bother other people. I'll sometimes ride with other people and say "doesn't that noise bother you?" and they'll say "what noise?"
It’s hard to tell but are the bearings on the drive side the ones that are pressed on? It’s not clear from the video. Again, that’s not a great design if they are. A bearing splitter (again cheap from Harbor Freight) would probably work to remove the bearing.
For sure Shimano’s design for external bearing cranks is by far better than any other design.
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10-17-21, 10:11 AM
#41
Jedi Master
I’ve watch a video on a 2011 Power Torque crank and from what I can see, crank removal isn’t the chore you make it out to be. Yes, the design could be better but it looks like the only extra tool you need over Shimano’s is a gear puller. Those are relatively cheap from Harbor Freight or from an auto part store.
It’s hard to tell but are the bearings on the drive side the ones that are pressed on? It’s not clear from the video. Again, that’s not a great design if they are. A bearing splitter (again cheap from Harbor Freight) would probably work to remove the bearing.
For sure Shimano’s design for external bearing cranks is by far better than any other design.
It’s hard to tell but are the bearings on the drive side the ones that are pressed on? It’s not clear from the video. Again, that’s not a great design if they are. A bearing splitter (again cheap from Harbor Freight) would probably work to remove the bearing.
For sure Shimano’s design for external bearing cranks is by far better than any other design.
10-17-21, 11:36 AM
#42
Mad bike riding scientist
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Come talk to me after you've actually changed out power torque bearings with harbor freight bearing pullers and tell me how easy it is. I have the Park tools, and t's still more of a pain than swapping out a square taper cartridge. What a silly thing to argue about when you've already said you have no experience with it.
And you are correct that I don’t have experience with this particular crankset. But that doesn’t mean I don’t have experience with making something work when I don’t have the proper tools or prior experience with it. That’s a large part of what I do at the local co-op…figuring out how to make something work even when I don’t have experience with it. In fact, that was a large part of my job before I retired…trying to figure out stuff that I (and no one else in the world) has a clue as to how it works.
On the other hand, I have seen a video on how it is done and it doesn’t look all that involved. I’ve changed bearings in a hub a few times and it’s doesn’t look any more difficult that that.
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Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
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Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
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Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
10-17-21, 01:26 PM
#43
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Here is the OEM BB: https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/e...ket/p/1040693/
which at $12 is about half the price of the Shimano 300 series equivalent, which itself is half or a third of the price of "high end" BB. As J Higgins states, there is no
reason at all to change the BB until it gets noisy, which typically is somewhere between 5,000 and 20,000 miles. You will need $20-40 worth of tools to R&R the BB yourself.
which at $12 is about half the price of the Shimano 300 series equivalent, which itself is half or a third of the price of "high end" BB. As J Higgins states, there is no
reason at all to change the BB until it gets noisy, which typically is somewhere between 5,000 and 20,000 miles. You will need $20-40 worth of tools to R&R the BB yourself.
10-17-21, 02:07 PM
#44
Jedi Master
Not “bearing pullers”. Gear pullers. Like the ones designed to pull gears off of shafts on engine blocks which are stuck on there far tighter than any bicycle crank. The same gear puller that can be used to pull a square taper with buggered threads.
And you are correct that I don’t have experience with this particular crankset. But that doesn’t mean I don’t have experience with making something work when I don’t have the proper tools or prior experience with it. That’s a large part of what I do at the local co-op…figuring out how to make something work even when I don’t have experience with it. In fact, that was a large part of my job before I retired…trying to figure out stuff that I (and no one else in the world) has a clue as to how it works.
On the other hand, I have seen a video on how it is done and it doesn’t look all that involved. I’ve changed bearings in a hub a few times and it’s doesn’t look any more difficult that that.
And you are correct that I don’t have experience with this particular crankset. But that doesn’t mean I don’t have experience with making something work when I don’t have the proper tools or prior experience with it. That’s a large part of what I do at the local co-op…figuring out how to make something work even when I don’t have experience with it. In fact, that was a large part of my job before I retired…trying to figure out stuff that I (and no one else in the world) has a clue as to how it works.
On the other hand, I have seen a video on how it is done and it doesn’t look all that involved. I’ve changed bearings in a hub a few times and it’s doesn’t look any more difficult that that.
10-17-21, 03:03 PM
#45
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...strangely enough, the original rationale for forming a bike collective here in my town (I was there), was the idea that there are some specialized tools, for working on bicycles, that are too expensive for the average home mechanic to buy, since use would be infrequent. Thus began the member only shared workshop that gradually evolved into the bike co-op that now exists here. One of the first major purchases was a Park BB threading and chasing set. Those do work well, but are surprisingly expensive.
I'm honestly not certain what changed, or how this idea got lost in the ensuing years. I do know that one of the rules of Bike Forums is that, there is no mechanical repair, that cannot be made more painful, take longer to achieve, and increase the chances of damaging something (which you then have to replace), than the combination of a Youtube instructional video and some repurposed tool from Harbor Freight.
...strangely enough, the original rationale for forming a bike collective here in my town (I was there), was the idea that there are some specialized tools, for working on bicycles, that are too expensive for the average home mechanic to buy, since use would be infrequent. Thus began the member only shared workshop that gradually evolved into the bike co-op that now exists here. One of the first major purchases was a Park BB threading and chasing set. Those do work well, but are surprisingly expensive.
I'm honestly not certain what changed, or how this idea got lost in the ensuing years. I do know that one of the rules of Bike Forums is that, there is no mechanical repair, that cannot be made more painful, take longer to achieve, and increase the chances of damaging something (which you then have to replace), than the combination of a Youtube instructional video and some repurposed tool from Harbor Freight.
10-19-21, 08:32 PM
#46
Method to My Madness
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I recently replaced the bottom bracket on my 2017 Trek FX 2 (as part of a 1X conversion), which had developed a muted clunk once per revolution in less than 2,000 miles (estimated), and can confirm that this cheap VP BB (VP Components Square Taper Bottom Bracket | Trek Bikes) is the one I had removed.
As for the OP's quest for a better BB, for JIS square tapered BB, I highly recommend a Tange Seiki (made in Japan) if you can still find one.
As for the OP's quest for a better BB, for JIS square tapered BB, I highly recommend a Tange Seiki (made in Japan) if you can still find one.
10-20-21, 09:30 AM
#47
Full Member
10-20-21, 10:41 AM
#48
Senior Member
I'm not saying this to antagonize you, just curious why you want to service it or haven't had any problems with it.
Now that I got that out of the way, swapping into any new sealed BB of the correct size would be a way to upgrade what you have in there. In fact, you probably have a BB that is one of the lesser-known component brands, probably Chinese. I could be wrong of course, but it probably is not a Shimano. If its not a Shimano, then installing a new Shimano would be the way to go, but honestly - let it go for a while. A BB will last quite a while if you aren't putting 100 miles a day on it, and I think its safe to assume that you won't be doing that kind of mileage on a Verve. The next step up from this would be ceramic bearings, but that would be way overkill on a bike like that.
Now that I got that out of the way, swapping into any new sealed BB of the correct size would be a way to upgrade what you have in there. In fact, you probably have a BB that is one of the lesser-known component brands, probably Chinese. I could be wrong of course, but it probably is not a Shimano. If its not a Shimano, then installing a new Shimano would be the way to go, but honestly - let it go for a while. A BB will last quite a while if you aren't putting 100 miles a day on it, and I think its safe to assume that you won't be doing that kind of mileage on a Verve. The next step up from this would be ceramic bearings, but that would be way overkill on a bike like that.
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10-20-21, 12:50 PM
#50
Jedi Master