Best strategy to defend against cars passing blind?
02-03-19, 09:37 AM
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Best strategy to defend against cars passing blind?
I am kinda frustrated with the whole cars passing blind deal. This is far and away the most dangerous thing I deal with. My commute is very winding with lots of rolling hills. Some of the hills are short and steep. I live on a residential lake so sight lines here are VERY short. After leaving the lake the ride is mostly rural (and a great ride!) until close to work where I encouter suburban drivers heading to work, i.e. impatient drivers. I am lucky no urban entaglement but lots of rednecks and unenlightened.
Credit where credit is due, some drivers are vey courteous and understanding. Maybe 2/3's or better. And I try to be visible as possible without being annoying. Lights and bright clothing, etc. I HOPE everyone sees me.
Taking the lane doesn't seem to help at all. The dummies just pass farther to the left. Even to the point of using the left shoulder if they have to. I used to signal an (uninteded) left turn thinking that will stop them passing. They would still zoom past. Finally realized they thought I was signalling them "safe to pass". Blind curve, up a hill, doesn't seem to matter. I usually take the lane and keep a mirror eye on approaching drivers. As soon as it is clear they are passers I switch to FRAP, realizing that is where I'm headed anyway when they meet oncoming traffic. Right or wrong I can't win that scrape.
I realize some people are just gonna pass. Rationally I know I will not delay their commute long. But long ago I realized you can't rationalize with the irrational. And there is still a surprising number of folks here of the "get your bike off the road" mindset.
My son's car was totaled on the lake road by a soccer mom passing blind. She was climbing a hill behind a dumptruck, impatient to make a left turn. My son was coming down the hill. As soon as she could see the road to the left she initiated her turn, directly into the path of my son. Dumptruck "took the lane" and she ignored and turned blindly! Clueless and a very possible fatality for a cyclist.
So I realize I can't stop this behaviour, but it still really bothers me. Like a ticking time bomb under my saddle. What do I do about it? Hollering does no good IMO. They probably can't hear anyway. I might get a freon horn to show displeasure. If I was driving I would honk so why not? Drivers understand an angry honk! The local police say if I bring in a video they will talk to the owner of the car. It seems to me this might be the best way to change behaviour. Has anyone done this? I don't have a cam and it seems kinda a lot of work, like a second job. And I don't really want to be a police officer.
I've seen some heated arguments about taking the lane vs FRAP and I hope this doesn't devolve into one of those. RIght or wrong, taking the lane doesn't work HERE.
Credit where credit is due, some drivers are vey courteous and understanding. Maybe 2/3's or better. And I try to be visible as possible without being annoying. Lights and bright clothing, etc. I HOPE everyone sees me.
Taking the lane doesn't seem to help at all. The dummies just pass farther to the left. Even to the point of using the left shoulder if they have to. I used to signal an (uninteded) left turn thinking that will stop them passing. They would still zoom past. Finally realized they thought I was signalling them "safe to pass". Blind curve, up a hill, doesn't seem to matter. I usually take the lane and keep a mirror eye on approaching drivers. As soon as it is clear they are passers I switch to FRAP, realizing that is where I'm headed anyway when they meet oncoming traffic. Right or wrong I can't win that scrape.
I realize some people are just gonna pass. Rationally I know I will not delay their commute long. But long ago I realized you can't rationalize with the irrational. And there is still a surprising number of folks here of the "get your bike off the road" mindset.
My son's car was totaled on the lake road by a soccer mom passing blind. She was climbing a hill behind a dumptruck, impatient to make a left turn. My son was coming down the hill. As soon as she could see the road to the left she initiated her turn, directly into the path of my son. Dumptruck "took the lane" and she ignored and turned blindly! Clueless and a very possible fatality for a cyclist.
So I realize I can't stop this behaviour, but it still really bothers me. Like a ticking time bomb under my saddle. What do I do about it? Hollering does no good IMO. They probably can't hear anyway. I might get a freon horn to show displeasure. If I was driving I would honk so why not? Drivers understand an angry honk! The local police say if I bring in a video they will talk to the owner of the car. It seems to me this might be the best way to change behaviour. Has anyone done this? I don't have a cam and it seems kinda a lot of work, like a second job. And I don't really want to be a police officer.
I've seen some heated arguments about taking the lane vs FRAP and I hope this doesn't devolve into one of those. RIght or wrong, taking the lane doesn't work HERE.
02-03-19, 10:35 AM
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You are not going to change driver behaviour, camera or not. And you're, right. It is a lot of work. You seem to have thought this through quite thoroughly, so I have little to add to help with your predicament. If there was an alternative route I would consider that.
02-03-19, 11:18 AM
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Fortunately, this doesn't happen often where I ride. When it does, there's nothing much you can do other than determine what your best course of evasive action will be in a worst case scenario.
If I can see imminent danger around the corner and the passing driver can't, I'll signal that they should wait. And that's actually worked when I've done it, but in practice this scenario rarely actually occurs. Maybe once a year. The timing and sightlines have to be just exactly perfect. I wouldn't consider signaling to a driver if I didn't actually see that disaster would be the result, so perhaps the only reason this has worked is I've only done it when it really seemed viable.
If I can see imminent danger around the corner and the passing driver can't, I'll signal that they should wait. And that's actually worked when I've done it, but in practice this scenario rarely actually occurs. Maybe once a year. The timing and sightlines have to be just exactly perfect. I wouldn't consider signaling to a driver if I didn't actually see that disaster would be the result, so perhaps the only reason this has worked is I've only done it when it really seemed viable.
02-03-19, 11:41 AM
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I agreed with your whole assessment of the situation.
Be aware and careful of CSR (Combat Stress Reaction) symptoms. I am not joking. In non-military folks it's called "Acute Stress Reaction".
There is nothing else you can do to be safe if you continue to ride a bike on that route IMO. Been there. It is a sad situation. If you feel like catastrophe is imminent, like a ticking time bomb, you can suffer cumulative effects starting with nightmares and progressing into all sorts of goofy things. Look it up just to be educated and aware. If nothing else, continued exposure can make you tired (fatigued) and grouchy.
The only cure, unfortunately, is to remove yourself from the perceived danger.
Be aware and careful of CSR (Combat Stress Reaction) symptoms. I am not joking. In non-military folks it's called "Acute Stress Reaction".
There is nothing else you can do to be safe if you continue to ride a bike on that route IMO. Been there. It is a sad situation. If you feel like catastrophe is imminent, like a ticking time bomb, you can suffer cumulative effects starting with nightmares and progressing into all sorts of goofy things. Look it up just to be educated and aware. If nothing else, continued exposure can make you tired (fatigued) and grouchy.
The only cure, unfortunately, is to remove yourself from the perceived danger.
Last edited by JoeyBike; 02-03-19 at 11:56 AM.
02-03-19, 11:59 AM
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In most parts of the US this is a laughable recommendation but it's been successful for me once.
Can you contact either a local bicycle advocacy group to serve as a relay or even contact local law enforcement directly? After a string of incidents in 2014 I contacted the county sheriffs office, explained my situation and asked if there was any way to request enforcement of local ordinance during commuting times. Few days later on my commute home there was a county car sitting at the bottom of one of the hills I was having an issue with. I wasn't able to find out if any enforcement occurred but I did not have any close passes for the remainder of the time I lived in the area and took that route.
Shouldn't cost you anything and might help.
Can you contact either a local bicycle advocacy group to serve as a relay or even contact local law enforcement directly? After a string of incidents in 2014 I contacted the county sheriffs office, explained my situation and asked if there was any way to request enforcement of local ordinance during commuting times. Few days later on my commute home there was a county car sitting at the bottom of one of the hills I was having an issue with. I wasn't able to find out if any enforcement occurred but I did not have any close passes for the remainder of the time I lived in the area and took that route.
Shouldn't cost you anything and might help.
02-03-19, 12:51 PM
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Write to the city council, or county board requesting signage. Something along the line of "No passing". Maybe it won't help at all. But it won't hurt!
02-03-19, 02:44 PM
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I remember your posts from years ago. They were proud, in-your-face informative and really shared the thoughts of an experienced and opinionated cyclist. Now you just hustle despair as a contrarian character in the A&S forum. You stopped growing and entered the same terminal arc as so many others. Left struggling against the forces of entropy as the quality of content falls lower and lower. Perhaps you'll turn it around some day, there's people out there with hope for you I'm sure.
02-03-19, 03:05 PM
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I remember your posts from years ago. They were proud, in-your-face informative and really shared the thoughts of an experienced and opinionated cyclist. Now you just hustle despair as a contrarian character in the A&S forum. You stopped growing and entered the same terminal arc as so many others. Left struggling against the forces of entropy as the quality of content falls lower and lower. Perhaps you'll turn it around some day, there's people out there with hope for you I'm sure.
Perhaps the OP just came here for commiseration from like-minded souls in similar hateful situations. I can easily help him with that. Perhaps he is hoping for a solution that he hasn't thought of, or dare not think of - like finding a different vehicle for his journey, or a different hobby for his fitness. It would be remiss of me to just give him a pat on the back and a "good luck" and most awful for me to see his name in a headline announcing that his fears have come true - that the bomb under his saddle has detonated.
If I confided in my wife about my fears of cycling, the first suggestion she, a non-cyclist, would make to me would be to "please stop participating in the dangerous activity".
If we find ourselves in a self-prescribed dangerous situation with no way to change the ground rules in a meaningful way, there really are only two choices: 1. Keep doing it, or 2. Stop doing it. I make no recommendation either way. Just answering the dude's question best I can, realistically.
02-03-19, 03:22 PM
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The OP came in here with an honest concern - fear for his safety on the highway/road he travels. From what I read, he has tried every sensible thing imaginable that is in his immediate control. He confided that he lives in a car-centrist, Hillbilly community. Carrying a rabbit's foot will afford the exact same amount of safety for him as attempting, even succeeding, at convincing local officials to add pro-cycling road markings/signs. His situation is closer to hopeless than it is to any easy solution.
Perhaps the OP just came here for commiseration from like-minded souls in similar hateful situations. I can easily help him with that. Perhaps he is hoping for a solution that he hasn't thought of, or dare not think of - like finding a different vehicle for his journey, or a different hobby for his fitness. It would be remiss of me to just give him a pat on the back and a "good luck" and most awful for me to see his name in a headline announcing that his fears have come true - that the bomb under his saddle has detonated.
If I confided in my wife about my fears of cycling, the first suggestion she, a non-cyclist, would make to me would be to "please stop participating in the dangerous activity".
If we find ourselves in a self-prescribed dangerous situation with no way to change the ground rules in a meaningful way, there really are only two choices: 1. Keep doing it, or 2. Stop doing it. I make no recommendation either way. Just answering the dude's question best I can, realistically.
Perhaps the OP just came here for commiseration from like-minded souls in similar hateful situations. I can easily help him with that. Perhaps he is hoping for a solution that he hasn't thought of, or dare not think of - like finding a different vehicle for his journey, or a different hobby for his fitness. It would be remiss of me to just give him a pat on the back and a "good luck" and most awful for me to see his name in a headline announcing that his fears have come true - that the bomb under his saddle has detonated.
If I confided in my wife about my fears of cycling, the first suggestion she, a non-cyclist, would make to me would be to "please stop participating in the dangerous activity".
If we find ourselves in a self-prescribed dangerous situation with no way to change the ground rules in a meaningful way, there really are only two choices: 1. Keep doing it, or 2. Stop doing it. I make no recommendation either way. Just answering the dude's question best I can, realistically.
You either do it and manage the risks as best you can or don't do it. Thinking that there's a way to influence the motoring public is like being a seal or a sea lion in the vicinity of great white sharks; changing the sharks behavior is not within their power. I've ridden in densely populated areas as both a recreational cyclist and as a police cyclist (who also get run over from time to time despite wearing hi viz uniforms marked "POLICE"). It is what it is and if it feels extremely dangerous to you then it probably is.
As far as shouting at drivers, loud horns or other means of confrontation? Get that out of you head right now because you don't know what the next CNN Minute looks like, nobody does. Shouting at that guy can end your life and is much more dangerous than riding a bicycle in traffic. In this day and age, your best bet is to take the path of least resistance when it comes to confrontation. Fight to save your life if you must but don't meet trouble halfway, there's always enough to go around.
One last piece of free advice, throw it away if it's worthless. If riding your bike in certain situations takes you to a place where it makes you angry or consumes more of your time than the ride itself, consider your realistic options. Having unresolved anger, hate or whatever else all pinned up inside is like drinking poison hoping somebody else will die.
Last edited by nomadmax; 02-03-19 at 04:01 PM.
02-03-19, 04:45 PM
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You are not going to change driver behaviour, camera or not. And you're, right. It is a lot of work. You seem to have thought this through quite thoroughly, so I have little to add to help with your predicament. If there was an alternative route I would consider that.
Last edited by KraneXL; 02-03-19 at 05:11 PM.
02-03-19, 04:59 PM
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I am kinda frustrated with the whole cars passing blind deal. This is far and away the most dangerous thing I deal with.
My commute is very winding with lots of rolling hills. Some of the hills are short and steep. I live on a residential lake so sight lines here are VERY short. ...
And I try to be visible as possible without being annoying. Lights and bright clothing, etc. I HOPE everyone sees me.
Taking the lane doesn't seem to help at all. The dummies just pass farther to the left. Even to the point of using the left shoulder if they have to.
I used to signal an (uninteded) left turn thinking that will stop them passing. They would still zoom past.
Finally realized they thought I was signalling them "safe to pass". Blind curve, up a hill, doesn't seem to matter.
I usually take the lane and keep a mirror eye on approaching drivers. As soon as it is clear they are passers I switch to FRAP, realizing that is where I'm headed anyway when they meet oncoming traffic. Right or wrong I can't win that scrape....
So I realize I can't stop this behaviour, but it still really bothers me. Like a ticking time bomb under my saddle. What do I do about it? Hollering does no good IMO. They probably can't hear anyway. I might get a freon horn to show displeasure....
! The local police say if I bring in a video they will talk to the owner of the car. It seems to me this might be the best way to change behaviour. Has anyone done this? ....
I've seen some heated arguments about taking the lane vs FRAP and I hope this doesn't devolve into one of those. RIght or wrong, taking the lane doesn't work HERE.
My commute is very winding with lots of rolling hills. Some of the hills are short and steep. I live on a residential lake so sight lines here are VERY short. ...
And I try to be visible as possible without being annoying. Lights and bright clothing, etc. I HOPE everyone sees me.
Taking the lane doesn't seem to help at all. The dummies just pass farther to the left. Even to the point of using the left shoulder if they have to.
I used to signal an (uninteded) left turn thinking that will stop them passing. They would still zoom past.
Finally realized they thought I was signalling them "safe to pass". Blind curve, up a hill, doesn't seem to matter.
I usually take the lane and keep a mirror eye on approaching drivers. As soon as it is clear they are passers I switch to FRAP, realizing that is where I'm headed anyway when they meet oncoming traffic. Right or wrong I can't win that scrape....
So I realize I can't stop this behaviour, but it still really bothers me. Like a ticking time bomb under my saddle. What do I do about it? Hollering does no good IMO. They probably can't hear anyway. I might get a freon horn to show displeasure....
! The local police say if I bring in a video they will talk to the owner of the car. It seems to me this might be the best way to change behaviour. Has anyone done this? ....
I've seen some heated arguments about taking the lane vs FRAP and I hope this doesn't devolve into one of those. RIght or wrong, taking the lane doesn't work HERE.
I think you're 100% right.
You either do it and manage the risks as best you can or don't do it. Thinking that there's a way to influence the motoring public is like being a seal or a sea lion in the vicinity of great white sharks; changing the sharks behavior is not within their power...
As far as shouting at drivers, loud horns or other means of confrontation? Get that out of you head right now because you don't know what the next CNN Minute looks like, nobody does...
In this day and age, your best bet is to take the path of least resistance when it comes to confrontation. Fight to save your life if you must but don't meet trouble halfway, there's always enough to go around.
One last piece of free advice, throw it away if it's worthless. If riding your bike in certain situations takes you to a place where it makes you angry or consumes more of your time than the ride itself, consider your realistic options.
Having unresolved anger, hate or whatever else all pinned up inside is like drinking poison hoping somebody else will die.
You either do it and manage the risks as best you can or don't do it. Thinking that there's a way to influence the motoring public is like being a seal or a sea lion in the vicinity of great white sharks; changing the sharks behavior is not within their power...
As far as shouting at drivers, loud horns or other means of confrontation? Get that out of you head right now because you don't know what the next CNN Minute looks like, nobody does...
In this day and age, your best bet is to take the path of least resistance when it comes to confrontation. Fight to save your life if you must but don't meet trouble halfway, there's always enough to go around.
One last piece of free advice, throw it away if it's worthless. If riding your bike in certain situations takes you to a place where it makes you angry or consumes more of your time than the ride itself, consider your realistic options.
Having unresolved anger, hate or whatever else all pinned up inside is like drinking poison hoping somebody else will die.
…I was hit from behind by a “distracted” (? inebriated) hit and run driver on an otherwise seemingly safe and peaceful route. By good fortune, I’m alive and relatively unimpaired.
Over the past few months I have come to realize that my safety aphorisms, collected over the years by personal or vicarious experience, are my way of actively aligning the stars in my favor, to anticipate those unseen and otherwise unanticipated dangers.
FWIW, for my own information at least, my other aphorisms beside those above are [to include this one most relavant to the OP's situation]:...
Over the past few months I have come to realize that my safety aphorisms, collected over the years by personal or vicarious experience, are my way of actively aligning the stars in my favor, to anticipate those unseen and otherwise unanticipated dangers.
FWIW, for my own information at least, my other aphorisms beside those above are [to include this one most relavant to the OP's situation]:...
- When approaching a curve with no forward sight lines, hug the curb…’tight to the right’...
Taking the Lane
I don’t direct motorists either, e.g by waving around, except perhaps for those “niceholes” who yield to cyclists, often disregarding the surrounding traffic.
FWIW. I have posted my position on taking the lane(especially as a form of “non-directing’ communication”),
I don’t direct motorists either, e.g by waving around, except perhaps for those “niceholes” who yield to cyclists, often disregarding the surrounding traffic.
FWIW. I have posted my position on taking the lane(especially as a form of “non-directing’ communication”),
Regarding the question of taking the lane, I’ve always felt it is a question of pragmatism,though I probably too obsequiously favor keeping the drivers happy by staying FRAP...
I also like your strategy of gently nudging towards the center, then relenting towards the right. And I always give a wave to the cooperative driver, either before or after their pass.
I also like your strategy of gently nudging towards the center, then relenting towards the right. And I always give a wave to the cooperative driver, either before or after their pass.
…How to get the message out? I find threads about what to say to a driver futile, since these are brief, often emotion laden encounters, and often the cyclist makes a bad impression
I have in the past posted about giving “bicyclist curses,” and “bicyclist blessings”; about 5 blessings a day, and about 3 curses a week.
I have in the past posted about giving “bicyclist curses,” and “bicyclist blessings”; about 5 blessings a day, and about 3 curses a week.
…I have those exact thoughts whenever I am passed, even when not tooclose by motorist who does not slow down or move over slightly, just as an indication that they notice me.
I always think those self-absorbed cagers are only restrained by the thought of scratching their cars, or the hassle of filing police reports.
My only satisfactory retribution is to give them my previously-described Bicyclist Curse. (I repeatedly jab my pointed right index finger in their direction, while shouting an accusatory, ”You, you, you…”). The possibility of metaphysical retribution is more satisfying than the middle finger.
I do also bestow Bicyclist Blessingson drivers who show even a modicum of respect, with a wave of the hand. ….
I always think those self-absorbed cagers are only restrained by the thought of scratching their cars, or the hassle of filing police reports.
My only satisfactory retribution is to give them my previously-described Bicyclist Curse. (I repeatedly jab my pointed right index finger in their direction, while shouting an accusatory, ”You, you, you…”). The possibility of metaphysical retribution is more satisfying than the middle finger.
I do also bestow Bicyclist Blessingson drivers who show even a modicum of respect, with a wave of the hand. ….
Last edited by Jim from Boston; 02-04-19 at 04:38 AM.
02-03-19, 07:16 PM
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Thanks for all the great input.
Sorry about the "ticking time bomb" hyperbole. I really don't care for bombast so I'm my worst enemy there!
Unfortunately I can't change my commute route since there is only two ways for me in and out of the lake, both equally bad. I'm lucky though because I can choose less traveled routes for my recreational riding.
This is not an issue that will stop me from riding. I am very aware of my surroundings and try to be defensive. Agree 100% with putting forth a friendly encouraging wave to drivers who "get it". Also agree that you never know who is behind the wheel in that car. Road rage makes the news all the time around here. Definitley want no part of that!
I'll just keep doing what I'm doing and try to sway opinions when off the road!
Sorry about the "ticking time bomb" hyperbole. I really don't care for bombast so I'm my worst enemy there!
Unfortunately I can't change my commute route since there is only two ways for me in and out of the lake, both equally bad. I'm lucky though because I can choose less traveled routes for my recreational riding.
This is not an issue that will stop me from riding. I am very aware of my surroundings and try to be defensive. Agree 100% with putting forth a friendly encouraging wave to drivers who "get it". Also agree that you never know who is behind the wheel in that car. Road rage makes the news all the time around here. Definitley want no part of that!
I'll just keep doing what I'm doing and try to sway opinions when off the road!
02-03-19, 07:29 PM
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Watch what's behind you, sprint to get out of the way of dangerous car drivers - it's rough, but this is the life we have chosen for ourselves.
02-03-19, 07:34 PM
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Thanks for all the great input.
Sorry about the "ticking time bomb" hyperbole. I really don't care for bombast so I'm my worst enemy there!
Unfortunately I can't change my commute route since there is only two ways for me in and out of the lake, both equally bad. I'm lucky though because I can choose less traveled routes for my recreational riding.
This is not an issue that will stop me from riding. I am very aware of my surroundings and try to be defensive. Agree 100% with putting forth a friendly encouraging wave to drivers who "get it". Also agree that you never know who is behind the wheel in that car. Road rage makes the news all the time around here. Definitley want no part of that!
I'll just keep doing what I'm doing and try to sway opinions when off the road!
Sorry about the "ticking time bomb" hyperbole. I really don't care for bombast so I'm my worst enemy there!
Unfortunately I can't change my commute route since there is only two ways for me in and out of the lake, both equally bad. I'm lucky though because I can choose less traveled routes for my recreational riding.
This is not an issue that will stop me from riding. I am very aware of my surroundings and try to be defensive. Agree 100% with putting forth a friendly encouraging wave to drivers who "get it". Also agree that you never know who is behind the wheel in that car. Road rage makes the news all the time around here. Definitley want no part of that!
I'll just keep doing what I'm doing and try to sway opinions when off the road!
Keep that head on a swivel
02-04-19, 04:42 AM
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I once put on my eyeglass-mounted Take-a-Look mirror, but she was not amused.
02-04-19, 11:52 AM
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The first time I went for a walk after getting my TAL and using them on the bike for a while, I tried to check behind me with them even though I didn't have them on. Felt kind of impaired.
02-04-19, 12:48 PM
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While walking through a parking lot during my lunch break, I caught myself mindlessly looking for my "Take a Look" mirror a few times. I missed that ability to get a glimpse behind me without having to turn around.
Anybody else experience something like this with a bike or bike accessory that you've really come to depend on?
Anybody else experience something like this with a bike or bike accessory that you've really come to depend on?
I have done that too with my (two) Take –a-Looks [link]. Just this past week I went out for a ride, after being off the bike for a week, and realized I forgot my mirror. I decided to complete the 12 miles without it but still occasionally glanced upwards looking for the phantom mirror.
Once a local radio talk show host was remote broadcasting outdoors from Fenway Park, the Red Sox baseball stadium. I stopped from my bike ride and as I was facing them, he was chatting with his sidekick and ogling a couple young ladies in short shorts.
I got the host's attention, and pointed to my Take-a-Look as I could see the ladies too, but less obviously.
Once a local radio talk show host was remote broadcasting outdoors from Fenway Park, the Red Sox baseball stadium. I stopped from my bike ride and as I was facing them, he was chatting with his sidekick and ogling a couple young ladies in short shorts.
I got the host's attention, and pointed to my Take-a-Look as I could see the ladies too, but less obviously.
02-04-19, 01:00 PM
#20
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I always glance into my Take a Look mirror while walking. It ain't there, but I look anyway.
02-04-19, 05:17 PM
#22
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Curiosity finally got the better of me. After reading the o.p. twice and several of the follow ups ... well ... the problem as I see it is that anyone sees this as a problem! "No matter how far left I move, they just go farther left ..." And? I didn't realize that the goal was to keep cars from passing, so much as to care that they pass safely. You are NEVER going to get a motorist who sees enough room to pass (and not hit you) to wait any reasonable (or unreasonable) amount of time behind you unless they happen to be that way inclined by personality. I would actually rather they pass. It was WRONG to ever insist that drivers give cyclists 3' or whatever outrageous passing statutes have been set in your locale. What should have been done is what they do in Europe: the overtaking motorist must not be going faster than 19mph while overtaking a cyclist no matter what the posted speed on the road being traveled. 19mph has been determined to be the speed where a cyclist, even if struck, and even if traveling at 0 mph, has a good chance of surviving the collision. But ... that is what 'should have' been done. It wasn't. Neither was the enforcement of the rules that are in place as is done in Europe. You hit a cyclist in Europe and your driving days are over. There is simply no excuse that you can offer for doing so that will pass muster in court. So the American cyclist must cease becoming upset at what American drivers do and figure out best practices to work within the behavioral parameters known to exist. Drivers don't want to hit you (well, most of them don't) but they don't want to be delayed by you either. If there is a way past you they are going to exploit it. Give it to them! Let them pass. Encourage passing. Facilitate passing. If that travel lane really isn't wide enough for a bike AND a car ... I'm afraid that means that you can't use it. Sometimes finding another route is worth the extra time. But if you use the road train yourself to not see it as too narrow. Expecting that cars will wait behind you unless the lane is marked as a 'sharrow' (shared roadway) is to invite frustration, fear and make for a fraught riding experience. Yeah, that thread title is telling. The first paragraph is telling. Once again, the short answer is simply, "Nothing". There simply isn't anything cyclists are going to be able to do to stop cars passing if they can. Learn how to make it not ruin your day. That's the best I can offer.
Last edited by Leisesturm; 02-04-19 at 05:21 PM.
02-04-19, 07:31 PM
#24
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Curiosity finally got the better of me. After reading the o.p. twice and several of the follow ups ... well ... the problem as I see it is that anyone sees this as a problem! "No matter how far left I move, they just go farther left ..." And? I didn't realize that the goal was to keep cars from passing, so much as to care that they pass safely. You are NEVER going to get a motorist who sees enough room to pass (and not hit you) to wait any reasonable (or unreasonable) amount of time behind you unless they happen to be that way inclined by personality. I would actually rather they pass. It was WRONG to ever insist that drivers give cyclists 3' or whatever outrageous passing statutes have been set in your locale. What should have been done is what they do in Europe: the overtaking motorist must not be going faster than 19mph while overtaking a cyclist no matter what the posted speed on the road being traveled. 19mph has been determined to be the speed where a cyclist, even if struck, and even if traveling at 0 mph, has a good chance of surviving the collision. But ... that is what 'should have' been done. It wasn't. Neither was the enforcement of the rules that are in place as is done in Europe. You hit a cyclist in Europe and your driving days are over. There is simply no excuse that you can offer for doing so that will pass muster in court. So the American cyclist must cease becoming upset at what American drivers do and figure out best practices to work within the behavioral parameters known to exist. Drivers don't want to hit you (well, most of them don't) but they don't want to be delayed by you either. If there is a way past you they are going to exploit it. Give it to them! Let them pass. Encourage passing. Facilitate passing. If that travel lane really isn't wide enough for a bike AND a car ... I'm afraid that means that you can't use it. Sometimes finding another route is worth the extra time. But if you use the road train yourself to not see it as too narrow. Expecting that cars will wait behind you unless the lane is marked as a 'sharrow' (shared roadway) is to invite frustration, fear and make for a fraught riding experience. Yeah, that thread title is telling. The first paragraph is telling. Once again, the short answer is simply, "Nothing". There simply isn't anything cyclists are going to be able to do to stop cars passing if they can. Learn how to make it not ruin your day. That's the best I can offer.
02-04-19, 08:18 PM
#25
20+mph Commuter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Greenville. SC USA
Posts: 7,517
Bikes: Surly LHT, Surly Lowside, a folding bike, and a beater.
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Curiosity finally got the better of me. After reading the o.p. twice and several of the follow ups ... well ... the problem as I see it is that anyone sees this as a problem! "No matter how far left I move, they just go farther left ..." And? I didn't realize that the goal was to keep cars from passing, so much as to care that they pass safely. You are NEVER going to get a motorist who sees enough room to pass (and not hit you) to wait any reasonable (or unreasonable) amount of time behind you unless they happen to be that way inclined by personality. I would actually rather they pass. It was WRONG to ever insist that drivers give cyclists 3' or whatever outrageous passing statutes have been set in your locale. What should have been done is what they do in Europe: the overtaking motorist must not be going faster than 19mph while overtaking a cyclist no matter what the posted speed on the road being traveled. 19mph has been determined to be the speed where a cyclist, even if struck, and even if traveling at 0 mph, has a good chance of surviving the collision. But ... that is what 'should have' been done. It wasn't. Neither was the enforcement of the rules that are in place as is done in Europe. You hit a cyclist in Europe and your driving days are over. There is simply no excuse that you can offer for doing so that will pass muster in court. So the American cyclist must cease becoming upset at what American drivers do and figure out best practices to work within the behavioral parameters known to exist. Drivers don't want to hit you (well, most of them don't) but they don't want to be delayed by you either. If there is a way past you they are going to exploit it. Give it to them! Let them pass. Encourage passing. Facilitate passing. If that travel lane really isn't wide enough for a bike AND a car ... I'm afraid that means that you can't use it. Sometimes finding another route is worth the extra time. But if you use the road train yourself to not see it as too narrow. Expecting that cars will wait behind you unless the lane is marked as a 'sharrow' (shared roadway) is to invite frustration, fear and make for a fraught riding experience. Yeah, that thread title is telling. The first paragraph is telling. Once again, the short answer is simply, "Nothing". There simply isn't anything cyclists are going to be able to do to stop cars passing if they can. Learn how to make it not ruin your day. That's the best I can offer.
