Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

New wheel truing stand; learning the hard way

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

New wheel truing stand; learning the hard way

Old 01-21-21, 01:50 PM
  #1  
sd5782 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Toledo Ohio
Posts: 1,499

Bikes: 1964 Huffy Sportsman, 1972 Fuji Newest, 1973 Schwinn Super Sport (3), 1982 Trek 412, 1983 Trek 700, 1989 Miyata 1000LT, 1991 Bianchi Boardwalk, plus others

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 577 Post(s)
Liked 685 Times in 384 Posts
New wheel truing stand; learning the hard way

I got a Park truing stand for Christmas. Of course I would try the neediest wheels first; my old Super Sport and the two other Super Sports from the co-op. Of course the nearly 50 year old wheels are out of round and abused a bit from over the years. Learning and spending winter hours doing something bike-ish in the cold. I’m thinking when moving newer and more upscale on my meager collection it may get easier. Having fun though.
sd5782 is offline  
Likes For sd5782:
Old 01-21-21, 02:32 PM
  #2  
Narhay
Senior Member
 
Narhay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 3,731
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 956 Post(s)
Liked 568 Times in 314 Posts
Old wheels are sometimes tricky to true.

Uneven tension, not dished properly, seized nipples, rim damage and dents, low and high spots. They are sometimes in need of just a couple minor adjustments but sometimes an entire detension and retension
Narhay is offline  
Old 01-21-21, 02:39 PM
  #3  
sd5782 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Toledo Ohio
Posts: 1,499

Bikes: 1964 Huffy Sportsman, 1972 Fuji Newest, 1973 Schwinn Super Sport (3), 1982 Trek 412, 1983 Trek 700, 1989 Miyata 1000LT, 1991 Bianchi Boardwalk, plus others

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 577 Post(s)
Liked 685 Times in 384 Posts
Yes to all the problems there. Didn’t do the total detention, but maybe need to further my education/learning with some more practical experience doing that.
sd5782 is offline  
Old 01-21-21, 03:49 PM
  #4  
allepunta
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 17
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked 4 Times in 2 Posts
do you have a tensiometer? I would start by even tensioning spokes
allepunta is offline  
Old 01-21-21, 04:00 PM
  #5  
seedsbelize 
smelling the roses
 
seedsbelize's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Tixkokob, Yucatán, México
Posts: 15,428

Bikes: 79 Trek 930, 80 Trek 414, 84 Schwinn Letour Luxe (coupled), 92 Schwinn Paramount PDG 5

Mentioned: 104 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7081 Post(s)
Liked 901 Times in 612 Posts
It helps tremendously if the spokes aren't seized to the nipples. If that's the case, replace them, if possible. No point in continuing.
__________________
Originally Posted by Bah Humbug
Auto-pause is a honey-tongued devil whispering sweet lies in your ear.


seedsbelize is offline  
Old 01-21-21, 05:47 PM
  #6  
Velo Mule
Senior Member
 
Velo Mule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,096

Bikes: Trek 800 x 2, Schwinn Heavy Duti, Schwinn Traveler, Schwinn Le Tour Luxe, Schwinn Continental, Cannondale M400 and Lambert, Schwinn Super Sport

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 801 Post(s)
Liked 1,000 Times in 654 Posts
I've spayed PB Blaster on the nipples before starting on an old wheel. I squirt where the spoke enters the nipple and from the tire side of the rim. That could help.

You don't have to use PB Blaster, there are other lubricants that work well and don't smell so bad. I've got to try ATF and Acetone.
Velo Mule is offline  
Old 01-21-21, 07:03 PM
  #7  
sd5782 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Toledo Ohio
Posts: 1,499

Bikes: 1964 Huffy Sportsman, 1972 Fuji Newest, 1973 Schwinn Super Sport (3), 1982 Trek 412, 1983 Trek 700, 1989 Miyata 1000LT, 1991 Bianchi Boardwalk, plus others

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 577 Post(s)
Liked 685 Times in 384 Posts
No tension meter yet, but maybe in the future. Yep, some seized spoke nipples too. The old Schwinns use 16mm which I bought. I spray lube on them at start and on threads but some still needed replaced after fighting to try to loosen.
I’ve tried to base tension on pinging as mentioned here and comparing to known wheels from a shop. I also read that tighter is better when in doubt up to a point. On these old wheels the biggest challenge was roundness. Getting within 2mm is acceptable to me with 1 mm runout a goal.
It is a fun learning experience and will be interesting when moving up to the fancier wheels. I even have one my LBS did that the dish is off by 3-4mm and the dish is off maybe 5mm on my old Frejus. It is a good feeling to do this for myself since I do all my other maintenance tasks. It just felt silly spending $25-35 for this job.
sd5782 is offline  
Old 01-22-21, 12:26 AM
  #8  
conspiratemus1
Used to be Conspiratemus
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Hamilton ON Canada
Posts: 1,512
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 297 Post(s)
Liked 245 Times in 163 Posts
If the rim has taken a “set”, such that it has a flat spot or is bent out of plane, you will not be able to correct those faults by adjusting spokes. So you want to discover that state of affairs before you put a lot of effort into the wheels. Full de-tensioning will disclose the rim as needing a different approach involving brute force, or perhaps not being repairable at all.

But yes, it’s satisfying and great fun. Enjoy.
conspiratemus1 is offline  
Old 01-22-21, 02:31 AM
  #9  
sd5782 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Toledo Ohio
Posts: 1,499

Bikes: 1964 Huffy Sportsman, 1972 Fuji Newest, 1973 Schwinn Super Sport (3), 1982 Trek 412, 1983 Trek 700, 1989 Miyata 1000LT, 1991 Bianchi Boardwalk, plus others

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 577 Post(s)
Liked 685 Times in 384 Posts
Thanks for that info too

Originally Posted by conspiratemus1
If the rim has taken a “set”, such that it has a flat spot or is bent out of plane, you will not be able to correct those faults by adjusting spokes. So you want to discover that state of affairs before you put a lot of effort into the wheels. Full de-tensioning will disclose the rim as needing a different approach involving brute force, or perhaps not being repairable at all.

But yes, it’s satisfying and great fun. Enjoy.
I think that is part of what has been such fun with these older rims in unknown condition. Learning as I go. Just did a rear from 72; another Weinman Schwinn and it went easy. Much helpful advise picked up here before I even got the stand. Thanks
sd5782 is offline  
Old 01-22-21, 07:15 AM
  #10  
Prowler 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Near Pottstown, PA: 30 miles NW of Philadelphia
Posts: 2,183

Bikes: 2 Trek Mtn, Cannondale R600 road, 6 vintage road bikes

Mentioned: 83 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 470 Post(s)
Liked 1,015 Times in 397 Posts
I've rehabilitated enough old wheels that I've a) gained plenty of experience and b) learned to fully detension/fully loosen all the spokes and start over. It's the only way to ensure the nipples are free enough to fully do the job. Scary huh?

Another valuable lesson I read was: it's more art than science. Don't even try to get it right the first time. Work a bit in one section or on one side then back off and work somewhere else. Stop and breathe, check it here and there then correct something. Take your time. Warm coffee, good music, fully alone in the shop.

Approach truing wheels like an art history major, not like an engineer (says the Engineer). My goal now is < 2mm of hop, < 1mm off dish and < 1/2mm of runout. And I can get that with a good rim.
Prowler is offline  
Likes For Prowler:
Old 01-22-21, 07:32 AM
  #11  
Rage
Space Ghost
 
Rage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,762

Bikes: Bridgestone, Fuji, Iro, Jamis, Gary Fisher, GT, Scott, Specialized and more

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 292 Post(s)
Liked 411 Times in 317 Posts
Wow, Santa really came through this time lol. That’s probably at the top of my Christmas wish list.
Rage is offline  
Old 01-22-21, 09:33 AM
  #12  
davester
Senior Member
 
davester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Berkeley CA
Posts: 2,531

Bikes: 1981 Ron Cooper, 1974 Cinelli Speciale Corsa, 2000 Gary Fisher Sugar 1, 1986 Miyata 710, 1982 Raleigh "International"

Mentioned: 97 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 926 Post(s)
Liked 1,281 Times in 482 Posts
Originally Posted by sd5782
No tension meter yet, but maybe in the future.
Get the iPhone app "Tensioner". Way cheaper than a tension meter. A little tricky to use but once you get the hang of it you're golden. Might also be available for Android.
davester is offline  
Old 01-22-21, 10:34 AM
  #13  
Reynolds 
Passista
 
Reynolds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,584

Bikes: 1998 Pinarello Asolo, 1992 KHS Montaña pro, 1980 Raleigh DL-1, IGH Hybrid, IGH Utility

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 866 Post(s)
Liked 711 Times in 392 Posts
It's OK to go for 1mm out of round, but even on many new rims it's not possible on the seam area.
Reynolds is offline  
Old 01-22-21, 01:21 PM
  #14  
sd5782 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Toledo Ohio
Posts: 1,499

Bikes: 1964 Huffy Sportsman, 1972 Fuji Newest, 1973 Schwinn Super Sport (3), 1982 Trek 412, 1983 Trek 700, 1989 Miyata 1000LT, 1991 Bianchi Boardwalk, plus others

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 577 Post(s)
Liked 685 Times in 384 Posts
Originally Posted by Prowler
I've rehabilitated enough old wheels that I've a) gained plenty of experience and b) learned to fully detension/fully loosen all the spokes and start over. It's the only way to ensure the nipples are free enough to fully do the job. Scary huh?

Another valuable lesson I read was: it's more art than science. Don't even try to get it right the first time. Work a bit in one section or on one side then back off and work somewhere else. Stop and breathe, check it here and there then correct something. Take your time. Warm coffee, good music, fully alone in the shop.

Approach truing wheels like an art history major, not like an engineer (says the Engineer). My goal now is < 2mm of hop, < 1mm off dish and < 1/2mm of runout. And I can get that with a good rim.
2 nd person to say fully detention on a bad one, so may need to try that. I did have to replace 5 or 6 nipples on that first one. Funny thing is the second old Schwinn wheel was no problem or challenge. I like your zen approach too as I did find myself getting frustrated with the first one.
sd5782 is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.