Laced DS spokes to NDS eyelets and vice versa....
#1
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Laced DS spokes to NDS eyelets and vice versa....
I just noticed this about 5 minutes ago. Do I need to tear the wheel down and relace? It's a front wheel, H Plus Son Archetype 20H with wide flange hub. Radial pattern, 100kgf. I've ridden the wheel about 150 miles so far without a problem but am worried that the eyelets will begin to fail.
Thanks!
Thanks!
#3
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Okay, so probably I haven't stressed the eyelets such that they will fail? Good news to me
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i'm assuming you have a rim with holes offset from the center line, like maybe a millimeter or two off the line?
i don't know that it makes a difference in the real world, but as you know, they are not intended to be laced that way. how in the world could that have happened?
i personally only know one other guy that's done it, and know for a fact he's done it multiple times.
BTW, he tried to fix it once by removing nipples, one at a time, and shifting them one hole. ...didn't work... ended up unlacing the whole thing and refacing. it turned out he ended up with the valve hole between the two closest spaced spokes and had to do yet again. what a boob.
i don't know that it makes a difference in the real world, but as you know, they are not intended to be laced that way. how in the world could that have happened?
i personally only know one other guy that's done it, and know for a fact he's done it multiple times.
BTW, he tried to fix it once by removing nipples, one at a time, and shifting them one hole. ...didn't work... ended up unlacing the whole thing and refacing. it turned out he ended up with the valve hole between the two closest spaced spokes and had to do yet again. what a boob.
Last edited by hueyhoolihan; 11-30-14 at 07:15 PM.
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If this were a rear, I'd probably suggest a rebuild. But fronts have much more forgiveness so you might as well cross your fingers and go with it.
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WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
Last edited by FBinNY; 11-30-14 at 07:27 PM.
#6
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Yeh.... I will probably end up relacing as a matter of aesthetic conscience more than caution. As it stands the nipples pretty much point straight up, with the spoke bending over to either side of the hub. I really don't know how I didn't notice this, but at least I'll have experience for next time!
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Yeh.... I will probably end up relacing as a matter of aesthetic conscience more than caution. As it stands the nipples pretty much point straight up, with the spoke bending over to either side of the hub. I really don't know how I didn't notice this, but at least I'll have experience for next time!
So, you have little to gain by relacing correctly unless you replace the spokes. OTOH you have little to lose leaving bad enough alone, since the worst that can happen is needing to relace with new spokes. Who knows, you might keep these for years, but even if they only last 6 months, that's 6 months more than pulling them apart now.
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I've deliberately built wheels in lateral cross, and they've done just fine. But it does depend on the curvature and drilling of the rim. Some take it just fine, and some leave the nipple sitting at a nasty angle. I've never done it on a nasty.
I've day dreamed about nipples with a true ball joint flange and maybe a wider drilling to accomodate this more generally.
I've day dreamed about nipples with a true ball joint flange and maybe a wider drilling to accomodate this more generally.
#10
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If you have that much bend, the damage is already done. Spokes aren't more likely to break just because of the bend. It's the bending back and forth as the spokes twist as you tighten the wheel. If you unlace and relace, it's that much more bending. Plus odds are there was a bit of stretching at the thread that was bent. When you relace the wheel the spokes will be effectively longer, and that bend will engage the nipple's thread, binding and making the twisting worse.
So, you have little to gain by relacing correctly unless you replace the spokes. OTOH you have little to lose leaving bad enough alone, since the worst that can happen is needing to relace with new spokes. Who knows, you might keep these for years, but even if they only last 6 months, that's 6 months more than pulling them apart now.
So, you have little to gain by relacing correctly unless you replace the spokes. OTOH you have little to lose leaving bad enough alone, since the worst that can happen is needing to relace with new spokes. Who knows, you might keep these for years, but even if they only last 6 months, that's 6 months more than pulling them apart now.
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i'm assuming you have a rim with holes offset from the center line, like maybe a millimeter or two off the line?
i don't know that it makes a difference in the real world, but as you know, they are not intended to be laced that way. how in the world could that have happened?
i personally only know one other guy that's done it, and know for a fact he's done it multiple times.
BTW, he tried to fix it once by removing nipples, one at a time, and shifting them one hole. ...didn't work... ended up unlacing the whole thing and refacing. it turned out he ended up with the valve hole between the two closest spaced spokes and had to do yet again. what a boob.
i don't know that it makes a difference in the real world, but as you know, they are not intended to be laced that way. how in the world could that have happened?
i personally only know one other guy that's done it, and know for a fact he's done it multiple times.
BTW, he tried to fix it once by removing nipples, one at a time, and shifting them one hole. ...didn't work... ended up unlacing the whole thing and refacing. it turned out he ended up with the valve hole between the two closest spaced spokes and had to do yet again. what a boob.
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I tried it as a test once; I wanted a greater bracing angle, thinking that would make a stronger wheel. But the eyelets put the nipples at the wrong angle and the spokes were bending going into the nipples.
So I unlaced it (before doing the stress relieving) and started again from scratch . That wheel seems fine now, no creaks or broken spokes after maybe 1000 miles.
So I unlaced it (before doing the stress relieving) and started again from scratch . That wheel seems fine now, no creaks or broken spokes after maybe 1000 miles.
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I built a touring wheel with a Velocity Dyad rim that was laced in the same manner as the OP's wheel.
After breaking the 3rd spoke at the nipple exit I realized my folly.
The Dyad rim is counter-intuitive with regard to the inner wall/outer wall drilling, due to the depth of the box cross section, I suppose.
In order to give the nipple/spoke a straight shot from rim to hub, the inner holes stagger opposite the outer holes.
Really gotta look at to see it.
Anyway, as I was breaking spokes, I relaced with new spokes.
No breakage after that.
After breaking the 3rd spoke at the nipple exit I realized my folly.
The Dyad rim is counter-intuitive with regard to the inner wall/outer wall drilling, due to the depth of the box cross section, I suppose.
In order to give the nipple/spoke a straight shot from rim to hub, the inner holes stagger opposite the outer holes.
Really gotta look at to see it.
Anyway, as I was breaking spokes, I relaced with new spokes.
No breakage after that.
#14
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If in doube, or maybe even if not in doubt, the best way to be sure is to thread a nipple onto a spoke put in into the rim with a bit of tension and see the "natural" line it wants to assume.
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An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
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“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
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FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
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