Sprints - Duration or Power?
10-04-17, 09:59 AM
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Sprints - Duration or Power?
Fellow racers,
I've been working on my sprints (as that area is lacking) and I'm curious if ya'll focus on the duration of the sprint or the power being produced during the sprint?
Most of the stuff I've been doing is in the 30 second range and I find it easier to simply count in my head or I pick a Strava segment close to that time and go with duration.
I'm wondering if I should focus on the amount of power I am producing during the sprint vs looking at it post ride.
Thoughts?
I've been working on my sprints (as that area is lacking) and I'm curious if ya'll focus on the duration of the sprint or the power being produced during the sprint?
Most of the stuff I've been doing is in the 30 second range and I find it easier to simply count in my head or I pick a Strava segment close to that time and go with duration.
I'm wondering if I should focus on the amount of power I am producing during the sprint vs looking at it post ride.
Thoughts?
10-04-17, 10:15 AM
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If you can focus on the power you are doing during the sprint, you are not really sprinting 
Sprints are won by knowing when to jump, jumping, and going faster than everybody else. You can't practice knowing when to jump. Whether you can train a jump is open to debate, but you can at least train getting familiar with it. You can train going faster.
Sprints are won by knowing when to jump, jumping, and going faster than everybody else. You can't practice knowing when to jump. Whether you can train a jump is open to debate, but you can at least train getting familiar with it. You can train going faster.
10-04-17, 11:24 AM
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The races I usually did almost never come down to a Sagan jump at the end nipping a guy at the line. Its almost always the freshest guy with sustained 10-15 second power.
This is a really good source:
Fast Talk podcast, ep. 20: Get better at sprinting | VeloNews.com
This is a really good source:
Fast Talk podcast, ep. 20: Get better at sprinting | VeloNews.com
10-04-17, 11:31 AM
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I'm not a racer but I have driven a few to races...
I know this is a bit 180 from what you are asking, but the other thing is to focus where you are already strong, and make it stronger - then find the races that fit your sprint.
Travel, finding them may not be an option, but I thought I'd at least bring it up.
On a team with a few sprinters it was not unusual for the director to suggest that was a course for so and so. That was basically telling everyone who they were working for.
I know this is a bit 180 from what you are asking, but the other thing is to focus where you are already strong, and make it stronger - then find the races that fit your sprint.
Travel, finding them may not be an option, but I thought I'd at least bring it up.
On a team with a few sprinters it was not unusual for the director to suggest that was a course for so and so. That was basically telling everyone who they were working for.
10-04-17, 11:35 AM
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If you can focus on the power you are doing during the sprint, you are not really sprinting
Sprints are won by knowing when to jump, jumping, and going faster than everybody else. You can't practice knowing when to jump. Whether you can train a jump is open to debate, but you can at least train getting familiar with it. You can train going faster.
Sprints are won by knowing when to jump, jumping, and going faster than everybody else. You can't practice knowing when to jump. Whether you can train a jump is open to debate, but you can at least train getting familiar with it. You can train going faster.
Last edited by mattm; 10-04-17 at 11:38 AM.
10-04-17, 11:42 AM
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To the OP's question, I think the answer is "both."
The two basic parts of a sprint are the initial jump, and then the sustained effort. The initial jump is the peak, and you can work on a higher peak by doing workouts like standing starts, hitting up the gym, plyometrics, etc.
Then there is the sustained part, which comes down to form, cadence, gearing, fitness, etc.
On top of all that there's the speed at which you are comfortable jumping and sprinting. On team rides you might start a sprint from 20-25 mph; in a race you might start the sprint at 30-35 mph. Just because you win team ride sprints doesn't mean you can do the same in real races (lucky for me, I suck at sprinting from slower speeds, but am better at higher speed sprints).
In general (I think) the only part of this you should work on during the winter/Base period is the cadence part. Do "speed work," which is basically high-cadence for extended periods. Then in Build you start doing jumps and actual sprint workouts.
Then again, I'm not really a pure sprinter. But this is what I know/do.
The two basic parts of a sprint are the initial jump, and then the sustained effort. The initial jump is the peak, and you can work on a higher peak by doing workouts like standing starts, hitting up the gym, plyometrics, etc.
Then there is the sustained part, which comes down to form, cadence, gearing, fitness, etc.
On top of all that there's the speed at which you are comfortable jumping and sprinting. On team rides you might start a sprint from 20-25 mph; in a race you might start the sprint at 30-35 mph. Just because you win team ride sprints doesn't mean you can do the same in real races (lucky for me, I suck at sprinting from slower speeds, but am better at higher speed sprints).
In general (I think) the only part of this you should work on during the winter/Base period is the cadence part. Do "speed work," which is basically high-cadence for extended periods. Then in Build you start doing jumps and actual sprint workouts.
Then again, I'm not really a pure sprinter. But this is what I know/do.
10-04-17, 01:43 PM
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Both. But 30s isn't what I'd consider a sprint. That's a leadout!
I work on both year round. Sometimes just a kick for 10 pedal strokes varying whether it's from a big gear or little gear, sometimes a distance (telephone pole or mail box), sometimes I'll shoot for 12 secs or whatever WKO4 tells me.
30 sec efforts are something entirely different, however, and I'm going to be doing those year-round too (or planning to).
I work on both year round. Sometimes just a kick for 10 pedal strokes varying whether it's from a big gear or little gear, sometimes a distance (telephone pole or mail box), sometimes I'll shoot for 12 secs or whatever WKO4 tells me.
30 sec efforts are something entirely different, however, and I'm going to be doing those year-round too (or planning to).
10-04-17, 02:50 PM
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If you can focus on the power you are doing during the sprint, you are not really sprinting
Sprints are won by knowing when to jump, jumping, and going faster than everybody else. You can't practice knowing when to jump. Whether you can train a jump is open to debate, but you can at least train getting familiar with it. You can train going faster.
Sprints are won by knowing when to jump, jumping, and going faster than everybody else. You can't practice knowing when to jump. Whether you can train a jump is open to debate, but you can at least train getting familiar with it. You can train going faster.
The races I usually did almost never come down to a Sagan jump at the end nipping a guy at the line. Its almost always the freshest guy with sustained 10-15 second power.
This is a really good source:
Fast Talk podcast, ep. 20: Get better at sprinting | VeloNews.com
This is a really good source:
Fast Talk podcast, ep. 20: Get better at sprinting | VeloNews.com
To the OP's question, I think the answer is "both."
The two basic parts of a sprint are the initial jump, and then the sustained effort. The initial jump is the peak, and you can work on a higher peak by doing workouts like standing starts, hitting up the gym, plyometrics, etc.
Then there is the sustained part, which comes down to form, cadence, gearing, fitness, etc.
On top of all that there's the speed at which you are comfortable jumping and sprinting. On team rides you might start a sprint from 20-25 mph; in a race you might start the sprint at 30-35 mph. Just because you win team ride sprints doesn't mean you can do the same in real races (lucky for me, I suck at sprinting from slower speeds, but am better at higher speed sprints).
In general (I think) the only part of this you should work on during the winter/Base period is the cadence part. Do "speed work," which is basically high-cadence for extended periods. Then in Build you start doing jumps and actual sprint workouts.
Then again, I'm not really a pure sprinter. But this is what I know/do.
The two basic parts of a sprint are the initial jump, and then the sustained effort. The initial jump is the peak, and you can work on a higher peak by doing workouts like standing starts, hitting up the gym, plyometrics, etc.
Then there is the sustained part, which comes down to form, cadence, gearing, fitness, etc.
On top of all that there's the speed at which you are comfortable jumping and sprinting. On team rides you might start a sprint from 20-25 mph; in a race you might start the sprint at 30-35 mph. Just because you win team ride sprints doesn't mean you can do the same in real races (lucky for me, I suck at sprinting from slower speeds, but am better at higher speed sprints).
In general (I think) the only part of this you should work on during the winter/Base period is the cadence part. Do "speed work," which is basically high-cadence for extended periods. Then in Build you start doing jumps and actual sprint workouts.
Then again, I'm not really a pure sprinter. But this is what I know/do.
Both. But 30s isn't what I'd consider a sprint. That's a leadout!
I work on both year round. Sometimes just a kick for 10 pedal strokes varying whether it's from a big gear or little gear, sometimes a distance (telephone pole or mail box), sometimes I'll shoot for 12 secs or whatever WKO4 tells me.
30 sec efforts are something entirely different, however, and I'm going to be doing those year-round too (or planning to).
I work on both year round. Sometimes just a kick for 10 pedal strokes varying whether it's from a big gear or little gear, sometimes a distance (telephone pole or mail box), sometimes I'll shoot for 12 secs or whatever WKO4 tells me.
30 sec efforts are something entirely different, however, and I'm going to be doing those year-round too (or planning to).
I have 2 races this month (both on the same day) so I'm curious on what I can do to improve upon my past results.
10-04-17, 03:36 PM
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And it worked recently!
It wasn't quite a sprint, and luckily not a leadout (I had a few bike lengths on everyone at the line), but my sprint training of ~30-second efforts, jumps @ speed, etc, definitely helped me pull it off.
10-04-17, 03:51 PM
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Same for me - I can't drag race these guys so I need to get an early jump and hope they hesitate.
And it worked recently!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNhJXZ7ehG4
It wasn't quite a sprint, and luckily not a leadout (I had a few bike lengths on everyone at the line), but my sprint training of ~30-second efforts, jumps @ speed, etc, definitely helped me pull it off.
And it worked recently!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNhJXZ7ehG4
It wasn't quite a sprint, and luckily not a leadout (I had a few bike lengths on everyone at the line), but my sprint training of ~30-second efforts, jumps @ speed, etc, definitely helped me pull it off.
10-04-17, 04:03 PM
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out walking the earth
Both. But 30s isn't what I'd consider a sprint. That's a leadout!
I work on both year round. Sometimes just a kick for 10 pedal strokes varying whether it's from a big gear or little gear, sometimes a distance (telephone pole or mail box), sometimes I'll shoot for 12 secs or whatever WKO4 tells me.
30 sec efforts are something entirely different, however, and I'm going to be doing those year-round too (or planning to).
I work on both year round. Sometimes just a kick for 10 pedal strokes varying whether it's from a big gear or little gear, sometimes a distance (telephone pole or mail box), sometimes I'll shoot for 12 secs or whatever WKO4 tells me.
30 sec efforts are something entirely different, however, and I'm going to be doing those year-round too (or planning to).
30 seconds is a pretty typical sprint for me.
10-04-17, 04:15 PM
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And SF Giro was a somewhat "easier" race - at Suisun there were constant attacks, we were all trying to make/get in breaks, and at the Giro there was a lot less of that. So I think they were more rested.
And also I should have gone earlier at SF...
Shoulda, coulda, woulda.
10-05-17, 10:38 AM
#16
aka mattio
To the OP's question, I think the answer is "both."
The two basic parts of a sprint are the initial jump, and then the sustained effort. The initial jump is the peak, and you can work on a higher peak by doing workouts like standing starts, hitting up the gym, plyometrics, etc.
Then there is the sustained part, which comes down to form, cadence, gearing, fitness, etc.
On top of all that there's the speed at which you are comfortable jumping and sprinting. On team rides you might start a sprint from 20-25 mph; in a race you might start the sprint at 30-35 mph. Just because you win team ride sprints doesn't mean you can do the same in real races (lucky for me, I suck at sprinting from slower speeds, but am better at higher speed sprints).
In general (I think) the only part of this you should work on during the winter/Base period is the cadence part. Do "speed work," which is basically high-cadence for extended periods. Then in Build you start doing jumps and actual sprint workouts.
Then again, I'm not really a pure sprinter. But this is what I know/do.
The two basic parts of a sprint are the initial jump, and then the sustained effort. The initial jump is the peak, and you can work on a higher peak by doing workouts like standing starts, hitting up the gym, plyometrics, etc.
Then there is the sustained part, which comes down to form, cadence, gearing, fitness, etc.
On top of all that there's the speed at which you are comfortable jumping and sprinting. On team rides you might start a sprint from 20-25 mph; in a race you might start the sprint at 30-35 mph. Just because you win team ride sprints doesn't mean you can do the same in real races (lucky for me, I suck at sprinting from slower speeds, but am better at higher speed sprints).
In general (I think) the only part of this you should work on during the winter/Base period is the cadence part. Do "speed work," which is basically high-cadence for extended periods. Then in Build you start doing jumps and actual sprint workouts.
Then again, I'm not really a pure sprinter. But this is what I know/do.
Essentially, I used to only work on my sprint on the same sort of cycle you mention here. Then, I flipped it, doing a lot more work on it in the offseason, and my sprint power went waaaaaay the eff up.
10-05-17, 11:06 AM
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I commuted on a fixed track bike for years - 52X17. It forced me to spin way higher than I wanted to on the descents - or use a brake, and that was out. I always had a great sprint, I was just too tired to use it at the end of the race, or I was OTB so I didn't need to.
I did a lot of video of my kid sprinting. For him, distance was the #1 item. IF the ride was much over 2 hours - not much sprint. ~hour in it was hard to beat on any kind of incline (junior gears).
10-05-17, 11:09 AM
#18
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This topic is interesting to me as a trackie, because for the past few years I've been learning how track sprinters train and applying it as a track enduro and crit racer: break the sprint down in to component parts and periodize based on that.
Essentially, I used to only work on my sprint on the same sort of cycle you mention here. Then, I flipped it, doing a lot more work on it in the offseason, and my sprint power went waaaaaay the eff up.
Essentially, I used to only work on my sprint on the same sort of cycle you mention here. Then, I flipped it, doing a lot more work on it in the offseason, and my sprint power went waaaaaay the eff up.
10-05-17, 11:45 AM
#19
aka mattio
what kind of work have you been doing in the off season? I really want to focus on increasing sprint/anaerobic power this offseason. planning some gym work along with track starts (i think that's what they're called? basically starting in a big gear from a stop), but interested in hearing what you do.
The what is a little bit less important than the how, and that's where roadies and trackies diverge a fair bit. A few things are key. Two things that go hand in hand are: doing sprint workouts when kind of fresh (the day after an easy day), and doing them as maximal efforts with full recovery in between them (i'm talking about 15 minutes of barely pedaling). The point of this is to achieve breakthroughs to stimulate that sweet sweet supercompenstiaon. To do that you need maximal efforts, and you can't do maximal efforts on a group ride or if you were just going z5 to get up and over a hill (after sprint efforts I'm either in the 28 at 40rpm, or just sitting in the grass for a few minutes).
Gym work is likely to help, especially if you're light af (Through gym and other strength work I basically went from racing at 125lbs to racing at 135-140, and this coincided with me getting a lot faster. Ain't gonna make you less areo, and it'll help you win races that aren't bear mountain) - strength helps you push on the pedals harder, which is a component of pushing on them harder + faster.
But you can also get a lot done on the bike. I'd wave you off of standing start workouts and push you toward overgeared accelerations from like 60 rpm to 120+ rpm (4 of these is a hard workout under 90 minutes and if you do it right you won't be able to ride tempo home). This is a lot closer to component specificity (especially for someone who's not doing standing starts in competition). And, periodize. After some time spent producing that force, work on producing force faster: bring the gears down, bring the cadence up (wind up from 110 rpm to 145), and head toward specificity: converting that strength into power into speed by doing speed-appropriate or overspeed workouts like downhill-ledout sprints.
Stop sprinting when you start bog down.
10-05-17, 01:29 PM
#20
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10-05-17, 02:06 PM
#22
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You explaining how you can't sprint for 30 seconds, despite track running events being defined as 100m, 200m, 400m and track cycling events being defined as Match Sprint (Men/Women) 1,000 m Time Trial (Men) 500 m Time Trial (Women).
Check the times on some of those events.
Check the times on some of those events.
10-05-17, 02:52 PM
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You know it's the off season when guys are fighting about what a "sprint" is lol.
Forget the word "sprint" - what we're really talking about is an effort at the end of the race to win. (an effort that is say 60 seconds or less)
Some people prefer a 5-second effort, some prefer a 45-second effort. (some prefer a 60-minute effort but that's something else entirely). Whatever the length of the effort, the idea is that it starts with an all-out sprint, and is a "go as hard as you can until you blow up" kind of thing.
Forget the word "sprint" - what we're really talking about is an effort at the end of the race to win. (an effort that is say 60 seconds or less)
Some people prefer a 5-second effort, some prefer a 45-second effort. (some prefer a 60-minute effort but that's something else entirely). Whatever the length of the effort, the idea is that it starts with an all-out sprint, and is a "go as hard as you can until you blow up" kind of thing.
10-05-17, 03:15 PM
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You explaining how you can't sprint for 30 seconds, despite track running events being defined as 100m, 200m, 400m and track cycling events being defined as Match Sprint (Men/Women) 1,000 m Time Trial (Men) 500 m Time Trial (Women).
Check the times on some of those events.
Check the times on some of those events.
So you just made up a quote and attributed it to me?
That's... bizarre.
Regardless of your definition of a sprint, surely you can actually use something I wrote instead of straight-up lying.
