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NOS 80's Krapf Frameset

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NOS 80's Krapf Frameset

Old 01-16-23, 03:51 PM
  #1  
jamesdak 
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NOS 80's Krapf Frameset

I've had my eye on this frameset since at least 2018. Price kept getting lower and lower and I finally made an offer that was accepted. I keyed in on this as it was obviously a Giovanni Losa frame. Went back and forth on if I actually liked the paint scheme but i guess it is pretty cool and fairly unique. The other ones I've seen didn't have the white on the frame just mainly the red, orange, and yellow.

This is from a Swiss bike shop that is still around. Used to support a team of sorts best I can tell. Not sure about now. I found some old references to these with them running Suntour parts. Hence why I'm trying to decide on whether or not this bike or the GIanni Motto gets the Superbe setup and which get's the 8 speed record or maybe something else. This one is supposed to be 126 spacing in the rear so while I need to verify that it may come to play in my final decision. With the crimped seat tube I'm also expecting quite short chainstays and maybe limited tire clearance. Frame is 4 lbs 4 ozs while the fork is 1 lb 7 ozs. Seems to be Columbus SL which is what I was expecting.

Anyway, here's so guick pics I grabbed as I took it out of the box.



The look is growing on me. Paint isn't mint but it's really close.

Digging the fork and the cutouts in the lugs

I like the details on this one.

This is on both chainstays.

Nice tough

Columbus goodness

I wonder if the "82" is the build year on this one?

Seems to be setup for recessed nut brakes

This is cool too, the arrow is a nice touch.
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Old 01-16-23, 03:53 PM
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Another Losa trademark

Losa dropouts

Tear drop on the BB

Tire clearance

The Losa cutout on the lugs.
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Old 01-16-23, 04:45 PM
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-----

thanks very much for sharing this fascinating piece!

each time we have a frame or cycle with this lug pattern someone asks about it

they appear to be a variation of the Prugnat Luxe 65 L Victoire




disclaimer: if mistaken the framebuilders will quickly put right me error

[with thanks to Detective Chief Inspector Maurice Moss for sharing these illustrations ]


-----

Last edited by juvela; 01-16-23 at 04:54 PM. Reason: addition
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Old 01-16-23, 04:47 PM
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Best looking krap . . . f frame I've ever seen. Sorry I couldn't resist, . Nice score and unusual bike to boot.
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Old 01-16-23, 04:49 PM
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Always know my day is about to become brighter when I see a thread title like this from jamesdak.
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Old 01-16-23, 05:07 PM
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Owning one of those Losa crimped seat tube frames, I can tell you that it is a tight fit for 23s though your frame is more elegant with the Losa drops and bottom bracket layout so you might find a better fit than I.

i was basically thinking it would be a tubular bike for me.
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Old 01-16-23, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by jdawginsc View Post
Owning one of those Losa crimped seat tube frames, I can tell you that it is a tight fit for 23s though your frame is more elegant with the Losa drops and bottom bracket layout so you might find a better fit than I.

i was basically thinking it would be a tubular bike for me.
Yep, the tight rear end is one of the reasons I held back seriously pursuing this one. I've got some old Continental GP3000's 700x23 tires that are smaller then true size. They'll be the first thing I try.

I'll sort this one all out part wise to be probably turn it over to the LBS to build since the frame needs facing, headset pressed in, and fork most likely cut. It's been a while since I had them do a build so time to send some business their way I think.

No sign of any ribs inside any of the tubes other than the steerer so I guess this confirms SL. Frames looks really clean inside. There is a loose piece of slag floating around in the top tube. I'll have to get that out. Cleaned it good today, polished it and then gave it a shot of spray wax. It's really shining well.
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Old 01-16-23, 06:55 PM
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jamesdak it is a hell of a score. Funny enough as I was chatting today with a biker friend about s SOMEC Air over here, I told him, that for some reason the Air fork crown is one of my fav things on a bike frame, and a few hours later this comes up. Cool...
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Old 01-16-23, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by jamesdak View Post
Yep, the tight rear end is one of the reasons I held back seriously pursuing this one. I've got some old Continental GP3000's 700x23 tires that are smaller then true size. They'll be the first thing I try.

I'll sort this one all out part wise to be probably turn it over to the LBS to build since the frame needs facing, headset pressed in, and fork most likely cut. It's been a while since I had them do a build so time to send some business their way I think.

No sign of any ribs inside any of the tubes other than the steerer so I guess this confirms SL. Frames looks really clean inside. There is a loose piece of slag floating around in the top tube. I'll have to get that out. Cleaned it good today, polished it and then gave it a shot of spray wax. It's really shining well.
I wish I could tell you more. Mine is still sitting in the queue waiting to be completely stripped and repainted. It has a beautiful blue top on a yellow then white primer. SL I presume as well.

Itís a weird one, not as ornate as yours but with Cassani pantographed into the stay caps and a C into the fork crown. Iíve never been able to get more information on it.

Due the quirky nature of it, I will probably be quirky with the outfitting...like a Sampson crank I have sitting doing nothing.

He was different to be sure. Yours is ready to go! Beautiful.
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Old 01-16-23, 08:07 PM
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Playing around some more. First I tried to use to different 130mm rear wheels. I didn't really have to exert much to spread the stays but neither one would seat into the drive side dropout. Then I went and grabbed two different 126mm rears and both went into that dropout with no problem. The narrower wheels had a modern Bontrager R3 700 x 23 tire and it cleared the seatpost ok. Then I put one of the old GP 3000s 700 x 23 tires on a wider rimmed wheel it it clears OK too. I mean there's not a lot of room at the seatpost with either tire but it's rideable. As a reference a Q-Tip can easily pass between the seatpost and tire even in the tightest area due to that crimp. And to be honest if I remove the dropout adjuster I'd get another 1/4" of clearance easily. Otherwise there's plenty of room under the brake bridge and between the sides of the tires and the chain stays. A plump Continental Ultra Sport on the same wide rime clears the front fork with a ton of space. So....I may be able to steal the beautiful Superbe/Arc En Ciel tubular wheels off the Opus III for this. It's running 700 x 25 Veloflex Roubaix tubulars that may just clear the tight rear just fine.

Some pics trying to show the clearance.:



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Old 01-16-23, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by jamesdak View Post
Playing around some more. First I tried to use to different 130mm rear wheels. I didn't really have to exert much to spread the stays but neither one would seat into the drive side dropout. Then I went and grabbed two different 126mm rears and both went into that dropout with no problem. The narrower wheels had a modern Bontrager R3 700 x 23 tire and it cleared the seatpost ok. Then I put one of the old GP 3000s 700 x 23 tires on a wider rimmed wheel it it clears OK too. I mean there's not a lot of room at the seatpost with either tire but it's rideable. As a reference a Q-Tip can easily pass between the seatpost and tire even in the tightest area due to that crimp. And to be honest if I remove the dropout adjuster I'd get another 1/4" of clearance easily. Otherwise there's plenty of room under the brake bridge and between the sides of the tires and the chain stays. A plump Continental Ultra Sport on the same wide rime clears the front fork with a ton of space. So....I may be able to steal the beautiful Superbe/Arc En Ciel tubular wheels off the Opus III for this. It's running 700 x 25 Veloflex Roubaix tubulars that may just clear the tight rear just fine.

Some pics trying to show the clearance.:



Be sure the tire doesnít have those extrusion jibbets hanging from the tread...itíll slap the nice paint.

i think mine has horizontal drops which allows some adjustability to the clearance, but with the semi vertical Losa drops, itís sort of set where it is.

Definitely shortens the wheelbase though for sure.
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Old 01-16-23, 08:41 PM
  #12  
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I like the color.

tight tire fit call for some tubulars

nice find

can't wait to see the final build

N = (n - some) + (that is so nice I can't resist, even thought i tried)
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Old 01-17-23, 01:12 AM
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Originally Posted by jamesdak View Post

I wonder if the "82" is the build year on this one?
1982 Swiss champion
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Old 01-17-23, 01:32 AM
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surprised that with that fork the rest of the tubing is just "plain vanilla SL", not that there's anything wrong with that.
Also the semi-vertical DOs and BB shell with that fork make me guess somewhat later than '82, perhaps even late '80s...but regardless you can do no wrong with a Losa frame, so congrats!
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Old 01-17-23, 07:50 AM
  #15  
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Nice find, my Turconi by Losa is basically identical, only difference being the rear dropouts and mine having a little bit more chrome. I can fit 25 mm tires in mine, but just barely.
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Old 01-17-23, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by unworthy1 View Post
surprised that with that fork the rest of the tubing is just "plain vanilla SL", not that there's anything wrong with that.
Also the semi-vertical DOs and BB shell with that fork make me guess somewhat later than '82, perhaps even late '80s...but regardless you can do no wrong with a Losa frame, so congrats!
Yep, don't really know the date on this. The seller responded yesterday that they are just a bike shop helping the widow of a collector sell his old bikes. They don't know history on it. The serial number ends with 84 so maybe that's a year of manufacture?

I'm going to reach out to the Krapf shop itself and ask but other owners haven't gotten a response from them. I'll also hit the Losa site up with pics and serial numbers and see if they have any records.

https://telailosa.com/

I didn't see anything stamped into the steerer of the fork although it does have what looks like "29.4" or "24.4" written on it with a sharpie. Steerer tube dimension??
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Old 01-17-23, 10:30 AM
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Super cool. I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with that tight of tire clearance on that frame, but only because I would be afraid of marring the pretty paint on the seat tube. I'd definitely be removing the DO adjusters and maybe considering tubulars. That's just me though.
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Old 01-17-23, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Mackers View Post
1982 Swiss champion
I was going to say that. Iím guessing this is some sort of homage to that championship or making a proud statement about achievements.

jamesdak - beautiful frame and I love the retro graphics.
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Old 01-17-23, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by juvela View Post
-----

thanks very much for sharing this fascinating piece!

each time we have a frame or cycle with this lug pattern someone asks about it

they appear to be a variation of the Prugnat Luxe 65 L Victoire




disclaimer: if mistaken the framebuilders will quickly put right me error

[with thanks to Detective Chief Inspector Maurice Moss for sharing these illustrations ]


-----
Looks right to me.
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Old 01-17-23, 12:44 PM
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@jamesdak on a 'roll' with new bikes!
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Old 01-17-23, 12:54 PM
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De Rosa began using that brake bridge in the late 1980's.
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Old 01-17-23, 01:03 PM
  #22  
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cool frame and thanks for sharing James Dak
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Old 01-17-23, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by jamesdak View Post
Yep, don't really know the date on this. The seller responded yesterday that they are just a bike shop helping the widow of a collector sell his old bikes. They don't know history on it. The serial number ends with 84 so maybe that's a year of manufacture?

I'm going to reach out to the Krapf shop itself and ask but other owners haven't gotten a response from them. I'll also hit the Losa site up with pics and serial numbers and see if they have any records.

https://telailosa.com/

I didn't see anything stamped into the steerer of the fork although it does have what looks like "29.4" or "24.4" written on it with a sharpie. Steerer tube dimension??
Let me know if you get a response from the Losa folks. I did not but it could have gotten lost in the shuffle.
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Old 01-17-23, 03:40 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
Looks right to me.
There's certainly some similarities with the Victoire lugs but I think Losa did that signature "Y" cutout to blanks and did not modify existing Prugnat piercings.
Note they also appear on the top sockets of the headlugs and also the BB shell, plus another signature motif (tear drop) is on the chainstay sockets of the BB shell.
I think Losa made all his own frame bit piercings (or had them done to his spec).
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Old 01-17-23, 03:50 PM
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The frame was sold as NOS? Did the seller ever build the frame up?

Awesome bike!
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