Nigeyy

I'll also second this. I converted an old Raleigh Technium mtb with a bonded front alu triangle mated to a rear steel triangle many many years ago. It was great, did the job fantastically and I have many fond memories. However..... after a while it just didn't seem right and started clunking when I applied effort on the downstroke (thought it was the bb, then the crankarm hitting the chainstay, then the headset, then another thing, etc, etc). Anyway, since I didn't have the money to replace it, I foolishly ignored it and toured one more time on it.

About a year or so ago, I bought a Dawes Sardar, so I knew it's time was up. I hacksawed the frame on the Raleigh since I was beginning to have suspicions that the frame had an integrity problem. Sure enough, the seat tube to the top tube was really loose, but only confirmed after I sawed it in half. It made me realize that I wouldn't want to ride a bonded frame again. On the positive side I had great fun and the frame didn't collapse on me, but I wouldn't trust one again. I should have listened to that clunking noise sooner rather than later, but sad to say money and enthusiasm got in the way.

So no, I don't think you should go with a bonded frame (or at least the Raleigh ones).

treebound 

Reviving an old thread:

I've got a MTB that I've been in the process of converting to a commuter bike. Timberlin name on the bike but someone told me it looks like a rebranded Trek (820?), 7-speed freewheel on the rear, grip shifters. I swapped over a bunch of parts from another MTB I had to upgrade this one a little. Eventually I'll be swapping out the Biopace chainrings. I'm starting to think/plan going on a tour, probably a year or more out, so I've got plenty of time to make adjustments. I will post a pic later today showing the bike with fenders, rack reinstalled, and whatever else I've done to it so far. I've left the new shifter and brake cables long in case I swap out the handlebar to something else. I'm also considering trying a set of barend shifters, but I've never used that style before so I don't know if I'll like it or not.

I'm kind of rambling here, just posting thoughts, not really looking for input yet still very open to input if it comes along. And I'm still kicking around the idea of just getting a touring frame. Was thinking I'd want a 700c wheelset, but my sizing is where some builders switch between 26" and 700c wheel sizes, some use 26", some use 700c, I'm right in the transition sizing range. Thoughts are to do some weekend overnight rides, maybe do a cross state ride, someday hopefully do a U.S. cross country ride or a European self-guided tour. All just hopes and dreams at this point.

Anyway, enough rambling, here's a pic to get this started/continued:


edit to add:
I did measure the wheelbase of it last night and it is either 41.5" or 42.5" (I forget which at the moment). I'll have to measure it again tonight (and write it down this time) along with the chainstay length. Thinking of going to some Randonneur bars. I used to have a set of Frostline panniers that I sewed up from a kit many years ago, but loaned one side to someone once and they promptly lost it somehow, so I'll be needing to get a new set of panniers. Thinking Ortlieb or Arkel, but might get something from the local REI with the coupon this month. Not sure what to do about a front rack, would like one with a top rack portion so I could avoid a handlebar bag as I don't like hanging too much stuff off the bars since they're already contending with my weight on them. Lots of details to figure out, but no immediate hurry to sort it out.

foamy

It does bear some resemblance. An '89 frame. Seat stays look a bit different.

treebound 

I went out and measured it, about a 42.5" wheelbase, and center of BB to center of rear axle is a hair over 17".






I'm thinking Cro-Moly should be strong enough, maybe


Local tag, rebranded I think


So, think it will hold up to eventual loaded touring? This year I'll be getting my cycling legs back.

Plan to get a Brooks for it eventually, and experiment with different bars. Will probably go clipless on the pedals but the toe clips will work until the snow and ice melt away. Nokian studded tires on it currently. I might eventually build up a cassette hub rear wheel, 8 or 9 speed, play around with shifter options, and I'd really like to play around with a front dyno hub.

dannwilliams

This is what I did with my old GT mtb. I now have fenders on it, also.

sykerocker 

I spent the years 1978 through 2004 completely divorced from cycling. And I mean total - during that time, I never walked into a bicycle shop, read a cycling magazine, watched any racing or other cycling activities on television (I never follow the Olympics), etc. In 2005 I dropped back in, found an old Raleigh, and suddenly it was 1977 all over again, with a whole lot of crash course catchup.

It left me with one problem, however. I absolutely CANNOT bend my brain around the concept that one can (and often does) pay over $500 for a bicycle. Following this thread, I'm seeing figures like $800, $900, $1200 bandied around for building a good touring bike from an OLDER bicycle. I'm slowing getting used to modern prices, but I still can't bring myself to pay them.

Two years ago, I decided that now that I was seriously riding, back in shape, and had always been a long haul guy (my kingdom for an opaque blue World Voyageur in a 23-1/2 frame!!!!!!), it was time to build a touring bike. Well, two, actually. One in the old traditional sense that I remember for road use only. The other as a go-anywhere-do-anything bike, designed initially to ride the C&O Canal Trail in Maryland, with lots of other plans. Budgets for each bike was $250.00, or forget the entire project.

The road bike will hit this section in a couple of weeks - the basis is a 1969 Magneet Sprint, and absolutely lovely ride. It's been done for the past year, but I've decided to splurge on a set of beaten Hondo fenders in place of the current Blumels, and aren't doing pictures until that's done.

The other bike has turned into my most ridden mount in the stable - I do weekend touring, urban riding, have done the dry run for at least a once or twice a week commute to work (42 miles round trip), and it's the first choice for the day's workout if I just hit the garage and can't decide what I want to ride that day and don't feel like inflating sewups:



It's based on a 1993 Bianchi Nyala that I picked up from a local madman with a yard full of bikes for $30.00. Complete, basically ridable, but needing the usual teardown and TLC.

As to a breakdown on the costs: Basic bike - $30.00. New street tyres, (Bontrager 26x2.00) - $30.00 for the pair. Tubes - $6.00. Fenders - $20.00. Favorit saddle bought on eBay - $36.00 including shipping. Rear rack - $14.00. Handlebar bag mount - $2.00. Replacement shifters (the old ones were corroded out) $12.50 eBay (including shipping). Handgrips - $6.00. Flat black spray paint (covers a multitude of sins) - $5.00. Cyclometer - $26.00. Pedals - $26.00. Pump, waterbottle and cage were sitting in the spare parts shelf, bought long ago so I've forgotten the prices. Note: This pic is out of date regarding the saddle and pedals. Gotta do a reshoot here one of these days.

Grand total: $213.50. OK, I lucked out, the gearing was just fine for my needs - but even a different cassette or replacement chainrings could have been procured and still kept me under budget, for here I would have gone used. Everything listed above was either new or NOS. And since I'm still under budget, a front rack in planned for the next month or so before the serious season starts.

Why again do we have to spend $1000.00 on a touring bike? Yeah, my attitude has it's shortcomings. I loved that new Raleigh Sojurn when I saw it last week. I choked when I was told the price. I really want it, but I'll probably wait ten years and pick up a used one.

Bizurke

I'm thinking of doing a MTB conversion and have been looking around for cheap steel MTB's. I'm wondering if any of you have any horror stories of certain bikes/frames to avoid? I've always loved the look of GT's and wanted a GT Backwoods for a long time. I see one on ebay and am wondering if the odd angle of the seat stays makes for too little clearance between pedals and paniers? Other than that just want to know what to stay away from.

staehpj1

Personally I think the whole dream bike thing is over rated. I also don't think that upgrading a low end bike is quite as inevitable as you imply. It depends on the rider. I ride my $599 Windsor pretty much stock except for the crank and rack. I don't anticipate doing all that much to it. I may consider building a new rear wheel at some point, but that is a "maybe" and there isn't anything else that I would even consider changing at this point beyond fixing any thing that breaks and maybe using nicer stuff if things need to be replaced any way.

I have ridden the bike coast to coast, but that was my only long tour so far, so maybe I will change my tune in time, but I doubt it.

foamy

I would doubt it too. If it ain't broke, no need to fix it. The only time I upgrade is when something wears out.

Sixty Fiver

My 1987 Kuwahara Cascade is one of those older mtbs that I really see as an expedition / touring bike due to the geometry and little things like a pump braze, spoke holders on the chainstay, and a hand built, quad butted, and lugged Ishiwata frame.

I plan on using it for some randoneuring and touring (as a fixed gear) and have added a front rack since this picture was taken.

It is really one of the nicest bikes I have ever owned and I guess that is why I have two of them, the other runs a 3 speed internal hub.


1987 Kuwahara Cascade


Rigged for winter commuting

Nigeyy

Well, you've answered the question really, you don't have to spend $1000.00 on a touring bike. With a little bit of good luck in finding that old early 1990's mtb and with hopefully decent drivechain condition, a tourer can be had for suprizingly little. I often wonder whether we are in the golden age of getting bargain tourers based on non-suspension early 1990's bikes. Once that supply goes, we'll be sorry! By the way, your Bianchi looks really nice -I love the colour green.

But why $1000? Well, you could get a Fuji/Windsor tourer for less, or an LHT frame for ~$400, but pretty much tourers are ~$1000 because that's where the price point is for most lower end touring -most especially with 700c wheels -bikes. And I don't think they are a bad bargain -price out the components and you might be surprized. I also believe that while it's certainly nice to have a nice bike, touring is about touring, and not about the bike.

Finally, here a thought, what is $1000.00? It's:
-the amount of money usually lost on the day when most people drive a new car from the showroom
-about the cost of a good PC that most people usually only use for about 5 years.
-the cost of a good six pack of beer per week and the cost of a Starbucks coffee every day for a year.

Everything is relative. I still find it funny that I've probably spent less on all my bikes than most of my friends have lost on just *one* of their car depreciations (while still owning a cheaper car), yet I get the impression they think I'm excessive! Finally, if I were you, if you could afford the Raleigh Sojourn and assuming you would ride it -buy the thing! For the pleasure and the amount of good it will do your body, I think it would be bargain. Life's for living too (with caveats of fiscal responsibility here though).

sykerocker 

I agree with your sentiments totally, and certainly understand the price of something 2008 vs. 1978 - I also can remember thinking I was hot stuff back then because I was grossing $11K a year. Just the same, despite intellectually knowing the value of stuff, I still choke.

The problem is all those years away from the sport. I had no problem paying $465 for a Gitane Grand Corsa back in 1972 (one of the last complete bikes I bought at an LBS). Unfortunately, I hadn't bought anything of that type since, so I've never had that nice slow progression of costs.

Happily, I'm a bloody good mechanic, and enjoy wrenching as much, if not more, as riding. It keeps the costs to the point where I can slowly grow into them.

sykerocker 

--

Nigeyy

And you've got the right to choke. If you've read many of my posts you'll probably realize I'm a real skinflint and miserly when it comes to money! And don't forget, you have the bike to go touring NOW, and as I said, I really ultimately believe it's about the touring.

Doing your own wrenching will save a ton of money; I do all my own -including wheel building, headset removal/installations, bbs, the works. But.... I still maintain that *if* you love that Sojourn, and if you can afford it, and if you know you will use it.... it's a bargain for the price, and for what it is to you.

By the way, it must be interesting coming back to cycling -what do you think the best improvements have been? I love the indexed shifters, clipless pedals, improvements in drivechain smoothness and braking performance, and the overall vast increase in the "bang for the buck" (I'll also throw in suspension for off roading). I recall friction shifting my old Raleigh Arena 5 speed back in 1982, and aside from nostalgia, I really don't miss it and would have one of my "modern" bikes anyday.

Bizurke

A nice little tip for anyone wanting to convert an old MTB:

I decided to put out an email on my bike clubs mailing list today asking if anyone had any old MTB's they wanted to get rid of. I got a reply back from a lady who works for the city landfill. She told me they have 2 piles of about 400 bikes each that they are trying to have people recycle. Upon inquiry she said there's more steel mountain bikes than she can count and some of them carry good brand names. So sometime this week I'm going to have a friend with a truck take me down to get a frame and whatever else I can get along with plenty of extra parts. I'm suggesting if you're looking for an old MTB calling up your local landfill and asking if they have anything you can have, you could probably get at least a frame and some parts for free.

nancy sv

I've got a trek 970 that I've used to tour on for many miles. It's been a great bike, but doesn't fit me like it should.

sykerocker 

Big improvements in 25 plus years:

1. Brifters - absolutely love them. The final step for indexed shifting, which I consider an improvement, but not a huge one by itself (w/downtube shifters).
2. Cassettes - I love being able to fine tune a rear cluster, and I invariably put a corncob in the middle.
3. The performance of cheap frames - I've got an '03 Fuji Finest, which I built from scratch as my crash course in catching up with all the missing technology. It's a low line double butted steel. I enjoy that bike every bit as much as my Trek 460 (Tange) and Rossin RL (Columbus). Yes, cheap is relative, but boy these low line steel frames sure beat the old Raleigh Records and Gran Prix's! I've yet to ride aluminum, carbon or titanium. One of these days.

Big un-improvements in 25 plus years:

1. 700c clinchers - OK, these are supposed to be 'just as good' as tubulars, without the mess or inconvenience. I rode nothing but tubulars back then, don't find any mess or inconvenience, and the first time I got a puncture on the road with a 700c and broke one tyre iron trying to get the tyre off and replace the tube, I started to seriously wonder "who's kidding who?" For some reason, since at least the late 60's, (lazy?) people have always been complaining that tubulars are too much trouble and keep coming up with attempts to obsolete them. They haven't succeeded yet.
2. Buying individual cogs for a cassette - I'm still trying to figure this one out: You design a rear cog system that makes it incredibly easy to custom tune your gearing, then you make it just shy of impossible to actually buy the individual cogs. Of course, they'll sell you a new cassette. That's an improvement over an old freewheel (which was such a pain to recog that I usually just bought a new one)?
3. The insane spacings between all the different cassettes, based on both manufacturer and number of cogs on the cassette. And the chain has to match the number of cogs? Welcome to why most of my bikes are still 5 or 6 speed, and I've yet to go over 9.
4. The failure of all those European marques. I know they're good, but I find Campagnolo and Shimano boring. I did back then, too. I miss Huret, Simplex, etc., as their designs were usually more interesting.

Neutral:
1. Clipless pedals - I ride SPD and clips and straps with the more modern clips that screw into modern shoes (will probably play with Look in the next couple of months). Big improvement in getting rid of having to nail your cleats in (I still have my shoemaker's stand from when I did that for the entire club), but otherwise, I still see them as even. And in an emergency situation, I can get my foot loose faster in clips and straps - although that probably as much old habit as technology.

Robbykills

this is hands down my favorite touring bike I've ever seen on these forums

abbynemmy

Not sure if this qualifies but here is my steel Lemond cyclocross I just converted to commuter/light tourer.



Randy

MrPolak

MMMMMM... SPICY! I like that! It's what I wanted to do to my Flyte cyclocross bike, but Campagnolo-compatible disc wheels are hard to find. I'm running Campy Veloce group with Campagnolo Scirocco G3 wheels.

sonatageek

Just so those of us without a dump like this can feels pangs of envy , let us know what kinds of better bikes you see in the pile.

ronzorini

One of my favorites too! Understated, stealthy, vintage, logoless, re-purposed...has all the qualities I admire.

All that's missing is a chrome sprung Brooks saddle :-)

badger1

It is nice; by the way, if you want to duplicate it (pretty closely), just order a Thorn Sherpa frameset in the correct size and build away -- total cost shouldn't be too bad

gm1230126

The bike you have is in fact....a TIMBERLIN. Timberlin was spec'd and distributed by Wisconsin Cycle Supply of Sheboygan, WI to bike dealers in about eight states in the great lakes area. Wisconsin Cycle was also GT's distributor in the Upper Midwest and later became GT/Riteway North. The entire Timberlin line was well spec'd and featured great graphics and components for the dollar compared to most bike lines. I was the product and purchasing guy that helped finalize the 1992 spec and did the specs from 1993-1995. The bikes were sold to and by dealers in Wisconsin, Minnesota, Illinois, Michigan, Iowa and Missouri, Nebraska and Indiana for the most part. Wisconsin Cycle Supply also sold over 5000 lines of Timberlin branded parts and accessories to LBS's throughout the US.

Sixty Fiver

Great thread... forgot I had posted.

The Kuwie has had a few changes...it's still fixed but now it runs SR randonneur bars and I have mounted up my favourite Schwalbe Hurricanes.