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Looking for a strong but affordable rim for dynamo wheel build

Old 07-18-22, 12:29 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by GamblerGORD53 View Post
Alex eyelet rims are so cheaply crappy, that Aaron in Seattle refuses to deal with them. He has a lifetime warranty for wheels he does build with rims he sells.
The point I was making about Alex rims is that they are the cheap replacement rim that Wiggle is looking for. They are generally in the $30 range vs $90 to $120 for Velocity or Mavic.


LBS guys keep repeating the LIE about more material on Dyads not being better. LOL. What a farce. That extra weight is around the spoke holes. Plus the pointier profile is FAR superior for strength and rigidity. Eyelets need a hole 40% bigger. LOL. 90% of the busted rims on BF have eyelets. Everybody keeps claiming it's because of wrong tension. LOL.
Have you got any information to back up your claim that the Dyads have extra weight around the spokes holes? It certainly doesnít show in the profiles offered of the A23 and Dyad. Velocity doesnít say that the Dyadís spoke bed is thicker. They do say that they ďuse extra aluminum through the spoke bed area of the rim,Ē but that is for all of their rims. The tiny amount of metal making up the difference in weight between the Dyad and the A23, for instance, can easily be explained by the difference in dimensions between the two rims. The A23 has a similar profile to the Dyad but is slightly smaller in width and height.

Most every rim on the market now has a triangular shape. Few have flat profiles. That said, I have cracked Dyads as well as other non-eyeleted rims. I also have eyelet Mavics (XC-717 and XC-317) that get far more abuse and Iíve not cracked any of those. Eyelets really arenít much of a problem.
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Old 07-20-22, 12:10 PM
  #27  
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I use Sapim spokes and their Polyax nipples. The spokes are of the highest quality and the Polyax nipples have a ball joint like shape were they contact the rim. This allows for a better spoke line. Rigida changed their name to Ryde. They have a rim line called the Andra. It is a very strong heavy duty box style rim. They make it in several widths. They are popular among world travelers. I used a set of Andra 30s on my sons touring bicycle a few years ago. Thes rims do not have gromets in them. I use Sapim nipple washers with them.These rims are not expensive and even less expensive when you order them from Germany.

Last edited by Rick; 07-20-22 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 07-20-22, 02:58 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Rick View Post
I use Sapim spokes and their Polyax nipples. The spokes are of the highest quality and the Polyax nipples have a ball joint like shape were they contact the rim. This allows for a better spoke line. Regina changed their name to Ryde. They have a rim line called the Andra. It is a very strong heavy duty box style rim. They make it in several widths. They are popular among world travelers. I used a set of Andra 30s on my sons touring bicycle a few years ago. Thes rims do not have gromets in them. I use Sapim nipple washers with them.These rims are not expensive and even less expensive when you order them from Germany.
You mean Rigida, not Regina. Perhaps spell check auto correct?
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Old 07-20-22, 03:40 PM
  #29  
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You mean Rigida, not Regina. Perhaps spell check auto correct?
Thanks
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Old 07-22-22, 04:35 AM
  #30  
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I have 2 or 3 sets of wheels with Dyads. I also have a set with Mavic A319s. Both work for me here in Cambodia.
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Old 07-28-22, 07:55 PM
  #31  
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I was just looking around Velocity's site recently, and I'm pretty sure I'm going to try out their Atlas rims (as finances permit). They're a little wider than Dyads, and specced for 700x28 through at least 700x45 tires, so should be much better for fatter tires.

There's also a Velocity Cliffhanger rim, but it starts out at around 700x45. Which might be a problem, in a remote area, where even 700x45 is harder to come by. 🤔

I think their Atlas is the perfect choice, a bit spendy, but should last forever. 😎

EDIT: I just realized, after looking again, the Atlas is NOT available for rim brakes, non-machined only. 😟

I think I'll just jump back on the Dyad bandwagon, lol, but maybe go to a 48-spoke. 😎

I've been on Dyads awhile now, and really like them, but my rear hub is the Shimano XT lemon, (HB-M770, I think), so I'm looking for any improvement I can get. Going to 48, or at least 40, is just a little more insurance. 👍

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Old 07-29-22, 10:01 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by stardognine View Post
...
I've been on Dyads awhile now, and really like them, but my rear hub is the Shimano XT lemon, (HB-M770, I think), so I'm looking for any improvement I can get. Going to 48, or at least 40, is just a little more insurance. 👍
I built up another touring bike five years ago. Used an XT M756A rear hub in 36.

I asked a mechanic that I trust what he thought of some of the newer cartridge bearing hubs for touring, and I named a few. I said all my experience was with Shimano steel axle hubs. He suggested I stick with cup and cone steel axle. And since I have had good luck with all my cup and cone hubs, I followed his advice and bought the M756A. Very happy with it. It is a disc hub, but you will find it hard to get rim brake hubs that are not a common spoke number, you might have to get a disc hub.

Quarter inch ball bearings:
https://manualzz.com/doc/53869777/sh...-exploded-view

I checked to see if they are still sold, Performance has it for $50.99 for 36 spoke, I did not check shipping, you can research that.
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Old 07-29-22, 10:19 AM
  #33  
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I just looked this up. $100 for the Velocity Atlas??? This is an insane price. Who in their right mind would spend this much on a non-eyeletted rim?

Right now you can buy a PAIR of Mavic A319 rims on eBay for $70 free shipping. The Mavics are bombproof double eyeletted rims that have been used by round the world tourists for years. I just built a wheel with it this month.

Edit: I had a closer read at the Velocity website: the Atlas actually is eyeletted.

Last edited by Yan; 07-29-22 at 02:01 PM.
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Old 07-29-22, 11:50 AM
  #34  
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In modern times eyelets are not an indication of quality or strength
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Old 07-29-22, 02:31 PM
  #35  
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I would look at the Ryde Andra rims. I ordered from bike24. They were between 22 and 23 euros.
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Old 07-29-22, 02:56 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Yan View Post
Velocity rims don't have eyelets so it's an automatic elimination for me. Go to google and find countless reports of Velocity rims cracking around the spoke holes. Is it possible for a rim without eyelets to be strong? Maybe. Are all these crack reports entirely due to builder error and have nothing to do with the poor design of the rim? Sure, if you insist. But why would I spend my money on an inferior product when better choices are everywhere?

I used Mavic A319s on my last build.
There were several cracks along the rear wheel's spoke holes on the Mavic 119 rim on my wife's bike. She went through the grates of an old storm drain at petty high speed, causing 2 pich flats, that could have also damaged the rim. She had about 7,000 miles on the bike at that time with about 4,500 being actual loaded touring miles.

We have Dyad rims on 3 of our touring bikes, and 119s on 2 bikes. I replaced the 119 in the picture with a Dyad rim. I don't think there was a 119 available at the time. The 319s might be stronger than the 119s , but the eyelets didn't seem to help.



My wife has 27, 000 miles on a set of Dyad rims, with no issues. I hit a large piece of metal on the approach to a bridge at about 25 MPH. The impact put a bulge in the rim, but the rim was still true and round, so I could ride it to a nearby town, Medicine Hat, Alberta. I couldn't use my front brake but the wheel was safe to ride. I called the guy who built the wheels and asked about pounding the bulge back in. He did not think that was a good Idea.

The bulge is about the 9:00 position.


I about cried when the mechanic at the shop cut out the hub for me. Luckily, the the shop had 1 wheel that would work because we still had about 1,000 mile to go. I had the hub to build up another wheel using a Dyad rim. Between my wife and I we have about 44,000 miles of actual touring on Dyad rims without any issues. None of our Dyad wheels have ever needed truing.

Last edited by Doug64; 07-30-22 at 05:25 PM.
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Old 07-29-22, 03:35 PM
  #37  
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The A119 is a single eyelet rim. The A319 and A719 are double eyeletted.
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Old 07-29-22, 05:29 PM
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@Doug64, that sounds like an expansion joint, approaching that bridge. I hit one in Humboldt County before, that must have been 2 or 3 inches higher, on the bridge side. Which is a lot, when there's no "give" to it, lol. 🙄😉 Fortunately, it just trashed my front tube, and probably caused some premature wear on the tire, but the Dyad was fine. 😎
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Old 07-29-22, 07:35 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by stardognine View Post
I was just looking around Velocity's site recently, and I'm pretty sure I'm going to try out their Atlas rims (as finances permit). They're a little wider than Dyads, and specced for 700x28 through at least 700x45 tires, so should be much better for fatter tires.

There's also a Velocity Cliffhanger rim, but it starts out at around 700x45. Which might be a problem, in a remote area, where even 700x45 is harder to come by. 🤔

I think their Atlas is the perfect choice, a bit spendy, but should last forever. 😎

EDIT: I just realized, after looking again, the Atlas is NOT available for rim brakes, non-machined only. 😟

I think I'll just jump back on the Dyad bandwagon, lol, but maybe go to a 48-spoke. 😎

I've been on Dyads awhile now, and really like them, but my rear hub is the Shimano XT lemon, (HB-M770, I think), so I'm looking for any improvement I can get. Going to 48, or at least 40, is just a little more insurance. 👍

Does this mean all the "non-machined" rims I've been using with rim brakes for the last 150,000+ miles are all wrong? Where did I get the idea that non-machined sidewalls are thicker so they might wear longer than the ones with all that aluminum removed for mainly cosmetic purposes?

The raging flames of touring wheel HELL are licking at my T519's!
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Old 07-29-22, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Ross200 View Post
Does this mean all the "non-machined" rims I've been using with rim brakes for the last 150,000+ miles are all wrong? Where did I get the idea that non-machined sidewalls are thicker so they might wear longer than the ones with all that aluminum removed for mainly cosmetic purposes?

The raging flames of touring wheel HELL are licking at my T519's!
Some of the non-machined rims are painted where there used to be a braking surface because they were intended for disc use. When almost all new bikes are disc, a lot of manufacturers have dropped products intended for rim brake use.
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Old 07-29-22, 09:51 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
Some of the non-machined rims are painted where there used to be a braking surface because they were intended for disc use. When almost all new bikes are disc, a lot of manufacturers have dropped products intended for rim brake use.
Please forgive my attempt at humor. The point being the Velocity Atlas IS for rim brakes. Just because the sidewalls are not machined does not make a rim disc brake specific-more information needed.
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Old 07-29-22, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Ross200 View Post
Please forgive my attempt at humor. The point being the Velocity Atlas IS for rim brakes. Just because the sidewalls are not machined does not make a rim disc brake specific-more information needed.
I just saw both of your posts, and appreciate the info. 👍 Honestly, I just wasn't "seeing" what was right in front of me, till you pointed it out. Thanks. 🙂

Looking back, a heck of a lot of anodized rims were dark, on the braking surface, until they started wearing down a bit. Sometimes you'd get a pretty cool-looking pattern. 😎
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Old 07-30-22, 04:36 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Ross200 View Post
Please forgive my attempt at humor. The point being the Velocity Atlas IS for rim brakes. Just because the sidewalls are not machined does not make a rim disc brake specific-more information needed.
My error, I did not realize that Velocity made a rim brake rim that was not machined.

My light touring bike has disc brake on rear, rim brake on front, I bought matching machined Dyads for both front and rear on that bike. That rim came machined for rim brakes or non-machined for disc. And that is what I was thinking by non-machined. I bought the machined for the disc wheel so that the rims would match for aesthetics.

It looks like you put a Velocity graphic in your post, but it is not showing up in my browser, I use Opera browser.

For the Dyad, Velocity lists options as:

MACHINED SIDEWALL DRILLINGS/COLORS:

32 spoke: Black, Silver, Polished

36 spoke: Black, Silver, Polished

40 spoke: Black, Silver, Polished

48 spoke: Black, Silver

NON-MACHINED SIDEWALL DRILLINGS/COLORS:

32 spoke: Black

36 spoke: Black

40 spoke: Black


But I see for Atlas, they do not list a painted version like the Dyad.

Sorry I got that wrong.
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Old 07-30-22, 05:18 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Doug64 View Post
I about cried when the mechanic at the shop cut out the hub for me.
I cried about that too when I had a rim fail. I would have taken them all out and mailed them home with the hub when he replaced the wheel. He was snipping them before I could say anything. Am I the only cheapskate who would lace on a new rim to the old hub using the old spokes? I have found that good spokes far outlast rims and good spokes are expensive. I have done this quite a few times and have had good spkes last trough the full life of two good quality rims and still apparently be fine. I'd consider lacing on a third rim if that guy hadn't snipped them out and may eventually do just that on the front wheel. My favorite trick is to take an identical rim (or at least one that takes the same spoke lengths) and tape it to the old rim, then loosen all the spokes and transfer them to the new one tightening the nipples until the same number of threads are showing on each one. Then tightening each one the same amount until they are all just snug. Check for roundness, trueness and dish and correct if necessary. Add tension "in layers" checking and correcting as you go.

I have done this a few times and wound up with long lasting reliable wheels. I found it quicker and easier and it is something I could do with minimal tools away from the shop even in camp if I had to.
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Old 07-30-22, 10:21 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by staehpj1 View Post
I cried about that too when I had a rim fail. I would have taken them all out and mailed them home with the hub when he replaced the wheel. He was snipping them before I could say anything. Am I the only cheapskate who would lace on a new rim to the old hub using the old spokes? I have found that good spokes far outlast rims and good spokes are expensive. I have done this quite a few times and have had good spkes last trough the full life of two good quality rims and still apparently be fine. I'd consider lacing on a third rim if that guy hadn't snipped them out and may eventually do just that on the front wheel. My favorite trick is to take an identical rim (or at least one that takes the same spoke lengths) and tape it to the old rim, then loosen all the spokes and transfer them to the new one tightening the nipples until the same number of threads are showing on each one. Then tightening each one the same amount until they are all just snug. Check for roundness, trueness and dish and correct if necessary. Add tension "in layers" checking and correcting as you go.

I have done this a few times and wound up with long lasting reliable wheels. I found it quicker and easier and it is something I could do with minimal tools away from the shop even in camp if I had to.
Itís possible to replace a rim but the issue is often finding a rim that will work. If you are able to find exactly the same model as the original rim, itís trivial but itís often difficult to find the same model. You may be able to find a rim with the same effective rim diameter (ERD) but it that is almost more difficult than finding the same rim model. Most of the time, you just end up having to replace the spokes as well.

On a side note: never cut spokes out (or let someone else cut them out) of wheel. First, it is dangerous. The first few spokes can fly out with a significant velocity. Iíve stuck some to the ceiling. But, more importantly, Newtonian physics will bite you! All the force that holds the spoke in place will rebound into the hub flange and can result in damaging the flange. At the very least loosen the spokes significantly before cutting them.
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Old 07-30-22, 01:30 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by rifraf View Post
Iíd strongly agree that spoke choice is important if your aiming for longevity in your wheels.
Some people expressed strong opinions (many negative) at the time of my rims and spoke choice (Cx-Ray), but the proof for me has been over a decade of heavy luggage touring (4 pannier, bar and rack bag and usually trailer) usage with no breakages and the rims remaining true.
They do get a annual service (tension check) but Iíve suffered no spoke breakage to date and still retain all my spares.
Based on Cyccoís recommendation, I replaced my worn Alex Adventure rims (braking surface wear after 8.5 years of touring and transportation) with wheels built with Alpine III spokes and RhynoLite rims. Zero issues after an initial truing after a couple of hundred miles. Like you, I travel with four bags. I have also been incorporating more unpaved roads into my routes. Still going strong after nearly 4 years.
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Old 07-30-22, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Itís possible to replace a rim but the issue is often finding a rim that will work. If you are able to find exactly the same model as the original rim, itís trivial but itís often difficult to find the same model. You may be able to find a rim with the same effective rim diameter (ERD) but it that is almost more difficult than finding the same rim model. Most of the time, you just end up having to replace the spokes as well.
I just bought more Mavic Open Pros back in the day. It was easy to find them in the size spoke count I was using. Also back then there was far less variation in rim depth so ERD varied a lot less and finding one that was the same or at least very close was easy if you were going to a different rim.

These days things have changed I can't find those same Open Pros and ERDs vary really widely. So yeah, it is harder to do that same trick. Maybe not impossible if you are lucky, but much less likely to find a rim that matches closely enough unless you are replacing a common model still in production or happen to find one with the same ERD that you like,
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Old 07-30-22, 05:42 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
My error, I did not realize that Velocity made a rim brake rim that was not machined.

My light touring bike has disc brake on rear, rim brake on front, I bought matching machined Dyads for both front and rear on that bike. That rim came machined for rim brakes or non-machined for disc. And that is what I was thinking by non-machined. I bought the machined for the disc wheel so that the rims would match for aesthetics.

It looks like you put a Velocity graphic in your post, but it is not showing up in my browser, I use Opera browser.

For the Dyad, Velocity lists options as:

MACHINED SIDEWALL DRILLINGS/COLORS:

32 spoke: Black, Silver, Polished

36 spoke: Black, Silver, Polished

40 spoke: Black, Silver, Polished

48 spoke: Black, Silver

NON-MACHINED SIDEWALL DRILLINGS/COLORS:

32 spoke: Black

36 spoke: Black

40 spoke: Black


But I see for Atlas, they do not list a painted version like the Dyad.

Sorry I got that wrong.
Black Dyad rims that are non-machined seem to have black sidewalls.

I ordered a set of wheels with Dyad rims from a shop with a top notch wheel builder. The wheels arrived with non-machined sidewalls. I talked to the wheel builder, and he told me to return the wheels, and he rebuilt them using machined rims.

The shop actually updated their online catalog after I talked to them to differentiate between machined and non-machined Dyad rims. Check out Universal Cycles: Universal Cycles

In Universal's Dyad description they say "Brake Compatibility: Rim Brake" which would seem to include both the silver and black rims, and machined and non-machined rims. However, I've always assumed that the machined rims were for rim brakes and the non-machined were for disc brakes.

Last edited by Doug64; 07-31-22 at 10:03 AM.
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Old 07-30-22, 06:22 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Doug64 View Post
Black Dyad rims that are non-machined seem to have black sidewalls.

I ordered a set of wheels with Dyad rims from a shop with a top notch wheel builder. The wheels arrived with non-machined sidewalls. I talked to the wheel builder, and he told me to return the wheels, and he rebuilt them using machined rims.

The shop actually updated their online catalog to differentiate their Dyad rims between machined and non-machined Dyad rims. Check out Universal Cycles: Universal Cycles

In Universal's Dyad description the say "Brake Compatibility: Rim Brake" which would seem to include both the silver and black rims, and machined and non-machined rimes.
It looks like we need a mad scientist, to spin a wheel built with one of these "non-machined" rims, preferably on a motor, and spinning with the brakes ON, for quite a long time, to see what happens. 🤔

Besides brake pad wear, we'd want to measure the actual braking, to see if there's any bad side to running them with older cantilever brakes. 🤔

Somehow, I don't think these tests have been done yet. 🙄😉
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Old 07-30-22, 06:24 PM
  #50  
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Five years ago I picked up a used dynohub wheel at a bike charity for $20. Did not look much at the rim, mostly the hub. Got home, cleaned the dirt and dust off of it, calipered the inner width on the rim and decided it was way too narrow for my needs.

Got lucky, found the ERD was within 1 or 2mm of a Dyad rim. Ordered one on Amazon, had it a week later. Add a few hours for taping the rims together as described by Staehpj1 and transferring spokes over, truing, and tensioning, I had a good dynohub wheel for between $60 and $70.

That wheel is now on my light touring bike. I did not count the threads as described by Staehpj1, but otherwise his description was spot on with what I did.

I am a firm believer in taping rims together and transferring/re-using spokes.
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